mominatrix I'm glad you posted that. I remember my parents leaving my brother and me in the car in the late 80s and early 90s. Granted, it's far more overcast in Indiana than Arizona, but still. The window was cracked...she wasn't trying to cook the kids. And my parents weren't some crazy hippy let the kids be independent type, either. They were very over-protective, likely stemming from my dad's job as a prosecutor.
There are a lot of great organizations offering a "hand-up"; they should include daycare to their services. Maybe large corporations that have in-house daycare should also offer the service to applicants.
My concern with that idea is that if a job applicant needs to use the in-house daycare just for the interview, the company may believe she would be too risky to hire (i.e. since she has children and can't even find someone to watch them for a couple of hours, if the company's daycare has to close then this woman won't be able to come to work, etc.). I could be overthinking this but that's where my mind went.
You're totally over-thinking it. In a company large enough to have that benefit, HR will set up the interview, offer the benefit, and know if the applicant uses it. The hiring manager will just be concerned about the applicant as the applicant and won't even know the applicant used the service unless she volunteers that information. Even if she does, it doesn't make her risky. It makes her reliable because they know she needs the job. But really, there'd be way too much disconnect for them to even consider it in all likelihood.
My concern with that idea is that if a job applicant needs to use the in-house daycare just for the interview, the company may believe she would be too risky to hire (i.e. since she has children and can't even find someone to watch them for a couple of hours, if the company's daycare has to close then this woman won't be able to come to work, etc.). I could be overthinking this but that's where my mind went.
You're totally over-thinking it. In a company large enough to have that benefit, HR will set up the interview, offer the benefit, and know if the applicant uses it. The hiring manager will just be concerned about the applicant as the applicant and won't even know the applicant used the service unless she volunteers that information. Even if she does, it doesn't make her risky. It makes her reliable because they know she needs the job. But really, there'd be way too much disconnect for them to even consider it in all likelihood.
I have never heard of a company letting you use their childcare for the interview! That seems.. odd.
You're totally over-thinking it. In a company large enough to have that benefit, HR will set up the interview, offer the benefit, and know if the applicant uses it. The hiring manager will just be concerned about the applicant as the applicant and won't even know the applicant used the service unless she volunteers that information. Even if she does, it doesn't make her risky. It makes her reliable because they know she needs the job. But really, there'd be way too much disconnect for them to even consider it in all likelihood.
I have never heard of a company letting you use their childcare for the interview! That seems.. odd.
right...I'm suggesting it's something they should do.
I just want to clarify that I'm not making any judgments about the situation. I'm just saying that there are a LOT of assumptions based on very little information. There hasn't been any sort of investigation yet - everything is based on what she told the police in the police report and people aren't always known to be 100% truthful and accurate when being arrested in what they say to the police.
Whether her story is true or not, there's no question that we need a much, much better childcare support system in this country.
Or comments on here discussing her OPTIONS. I can't even effing believe this. This is the board that will eat you alive if you (1) Support drug testing of welfare folks (2) suggest anyone is a welfare queen. Yet when a story is posting with a woman CRYING IN HER MUGSHOT after making choice out of pure desperation people are sitting on their middle class high horses throwing shade. ::sucks teeth::
So, so here.
What's she supposed to do? She's a lazy welfare queen if she doesn't get a job to take care of her kids, but she's a neglectful mother when she brings them with her and leaves them in the car? She's trying to pull herself out. SHE HAS NO BOOTSTRAPS. This is bullshit, and we should be fucking rioting in the streets that there are people who have to live like this.
I am more "bootstraps" than not, and am more conservative than most on this board, and I rarely participate because of that. But even I think this is a fucking shame. My heart broke when I saw this poor woman's mugshot.
It is incredibly dangerous to leave your kids in a locked car, in direct sun (as per article) when it's 80 degrees out. We know that children have died from this. Of course that decision wasn't the "best", but what choice did she have? It's heartbreaking. I have nothing but sympathy for this woman.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Mar 31, 2014 15:09:26 GMT -5
I am PISSED that there are people suggesting that she should've left her kids with someone else. Just, if you suggested that, without even considering that she probably has no other options (look, I have a large family and several local friends and I still end up fucked sometimes with childcare), don't fucking talk to me anymore.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
This just makes me want to start a charity the provides childcare for women looking for jobs. Hey Oprah, Bill Gates, other rich people! Anyone want to toss me some money to get this idea off the ground???
I was thinking about this too. How do I turn this situation around and help out other women in the same position? Who do I talk to about this? I
I have never heard of a company letting you use their childcare for the interview! That seems.. odd.
right...I'm suggesting it's something they should do.
From a logistical standpoint, I don't see how this would work. Corporate daycares generally have very limited spots for drop-in care and I would imagine that they would be given to full time employees first. I can't imagine how you would staff for random children at random times.
This whole thing is so sad. I hope she gets her babies back and I hope with all the media attention that someone is willing to give her an employment opportunity.
While we have no idea what her mitigating circumstances are, I think it is fair to feel both empathy and anger, for her and at her. People tend to react differently when babies are involved. While most of us are thinking how sad it is that she is even in this type of situation, others can only think of the dangers posed on the kids. Understandable.
I wish there were an easy answer as to how to prevent the need for a mom to even have to make that choice. This hurts my heart.
This is why I didn't want to jump down anyone's throat here. I absolutely understand people being concerned about the safety of the kids but I hope this kind of story helps people understand that finding childcare in general (and especially when you're homeless) can be very very difficult.
I will say one thing - this story could have easily been "Two year old murdered by mother's boyfriend" - God knows there are enough stories of women who leave their children with their shitty boyfriends who then end up abusing or killing them. So maybe the car really was the safest option she had.
Okay, some of the responses here are making my head explode.
I've been homeless. I've been in this woman's shoes, with small kids and a disabled husband. I was fortunate that I had help, and a history of having a middle class childhood and knowing how to achieve it. But I still ended up homeless. Why? Because desperation (and pride in my case) made me make foolish choices. XH was military and we lost his income when he was disabled, then our housing, then our car... He was, as a privileged white guy, able to get a job despite his disability because he was able to hide it (within reason). Then his disability caused him to lose his job. Then he got abusive and I moved out of our house and in with my brother and his wife, after the teenager they were fostering moved out. We got an apartment that accepted a minimal amount per month on the promise that when XH got his disability we'd catch up. Turns out that the manager didn't have us on the books, was keeping our cash and ran off to Mexico with our money and a few others. This was a complex where there was a shooting two stories above us, we ran past the living room window to make sure no bullets hit us, my 4-year-old daughter was almost drowned *as a joke* in the swimming pool. My sister, whose husband wasn't making a lot of money as a service member, would visit us bringing bags of oatmeal and ground beef so we'd have food to eat, to the point I would avoid answering the door. We were denied welfare because our car was registered in the wrong state (WA, where XH was from and where we were stationed, and not CA where I was from and where I fled and we got back together "to be a family" and so I could take care of my disabled husband because he had nobody else to take care of him even though he had a living mother and sister. When we had to move out that weekend, with the flashing police lights in the parking lot across from us, we had nowhere to go except a tent. My brother could have taken us in but btdt and XH was back with us which was a different story than me fleeing an abusive, disabled spouse. My sister had a baby and no room, my baby sister had no room, my mother was living with her sister and then someone else as a caretaker and was otherwise struggling. Et cetera. So we moved to a tent. Fortunately it was summer so it was "camping" and not homelessness. And did I mention I was 7 months pregnant at the time?
We tried to get Social Security but were denied. Tried to get welfare but were denied because we got $506 from the VA and our car was improperly registered and Lord knows what else. We got $506 from the VA because XH was deemed 40% disabled and not the 100% that was mandated by his seizure rate and hospitalization periods. It's harder to quantify a mental disability or TBI than it is a severed or useless limb.
I had three kids and was pregnant and living in a tent with a spouse who could NOT work at the time. I lied my ass off to finally get on welfare (he "left" me and conveniently came back a week later) and was denigrated and looked down on for being on welfare. My XH, who was a veteran with a couple bars full of ribbons and multiple awards, was looked down on for being a "user" and abuser of the system. The welfare worker told him "Be a man and support your family" and that's when I decide that NO MATTER WHAT I was going to get off welfare and support our family, despite the fact that we had 4 kids under 5, the youngest of whom was an infant and the oldest in kindergarten, and a spouse who should never have been left to take care of the children because he was unable to properly take care of himself at the time. But desperation (and in my case rage at the system) makes people not always think clearly.
When you are poor and homeless and desperate, you will do ANYTHING if you see an opportunity to get out of the trap, especially when you've fallen INTO the trap and know what it's like to live "otherwise." This woman is a veteran, who likely joined to have a stable job and training, who has two small children (and I can tell you that as a single spouse with two children it's extremely difficult to be in the military, especially with mandatory tours. If she doesn't have a relative willing to sign a POA or take responsibility of the children so she can do her mandatory tours, she will not be able to reenlist. So she loses her stable job. When XH was disabled they wouldn't take me, despite having the highest ASVAB score available and a senior-officer FIL, because we had three children) A veteran is 40% (I'll see if I can find the statistic but I posted it once upon a time iirc) less likely to find a job as a civilian than someone with a civilian employment history.
And as @helenabonhamcarter said, there is no FREE childcare for unemployed. As some know, I took in my two granddaughters as a CPS placement. With this, I was entitled to a LOT of support from DSHS for daycare, vouchers, education assistance, counseling and anything and everything I asked for. I was able to find a daycare facility willing to take vouchers for child care because I was employed. When I lost my job and the girls were placed with us a second time, there was no child care option available because guess what...I wasn't working! So, I'm not able to attend re-training, education, or anything else unless I pay out of pocket the $10/hour for the drop-in facility where I had a prior history (which is why they took me in the first place). I have a substantial income to be able to do this, and I thank God for that every day. Because when I was 25 I didn't have the luxury of choices. Every breath was a struggle to figure out how to feed my children, take care of my husband, find a roof to put over our heads, keep that roof over our heads, and get food into our bellies.
And I can guarantee you that the relatives that took these children in did as a last resort and because they now have SUPPORT behind them with DSHS and placement services and income that they otherwise didn't have. My XH would have taken in the girls as a last resort, but he actually turned them down because he's not able to care for them due to his disability and I was available locally. I can guarantee that if I hadn't moved back, the kids would have been on a flight to Ohio to live with me. Because there were no other choices left unless they went into the foster system.
sunshineluv, you have a beautiful boy in your sigpic, and a brand new baby. What would happen to them if your husband left you, didn't make child support payments? If you didn't have a mother or sister or brother or cousin or relative who would take you and them in? If you lived in a place where you had no friends you could call on to watch your kids for a couple of hours so you could interview for a job that would get you out of the homeless shelter and back into a house like you had when the baby was little and you were employed, or you were serving in the military and they provided housing and an income? When you are homeless THERE ARE NO "OTHER" CHOICES. You do what you have to do, no matter what it is, to get that job, to get out of the situation.
My heart breaks for the woman in that picture because there but for the Grace of God (or whomever your chosen deity might or might not be) go I. And but for the Grace of God, she is not you either.
Post by blessed2bmama on Mar 31, 2014 15:45:46 GMT -5
This story is so sad. The picture is heartbreaking. I cannot imagine the desperation she may have been feeling, and how horrified she must have been to come out to officers surrounding her car and taking her babies.
I wish for her sake and that of her small children that she had thought to just take them in with her. That seems like the safest possible action in the situation, and one that was well within her reach. I imagine that if she had that idea she probably thought it would hurt her chances of getting the job, and maybe it would have. It's just all so frustrating. Thank goodness her kids are ok. I hope she's able to use the money raised for her to position herself so that she doesn't have to make those kinds of hard, no win choices again.
This story is so sad. The picture is heartbreaking. I cannot imagine the desperation she may have been feeling, and how horrified she must have been to come out to officers surrounding her car and taking her babies.
I wish for her sake and that of her small children that she had thought to just take them in with her. That seems like the safest possible action in the situation, and one that was well within her reach. I imagine that if she had that idea she probably thought it would hurt her chances of getting the job, and maybe it would have. It's just all so frustrating. Thank goodness her kids are ok. I hope she's able to use the money raised for her to position herself so that she doesn't have to make those kinds of hard, no win choices again.
Really, you think she didn't consider that? Would you hire someone that dragged two kids in with her for an interview? Has that EVER happened, in the history of single-women working to take care of their children in the modern age??? To her, in her desperation, the better choice would have been a short interview where they DIDN'T know that the kids were out in the car but possibly assumed they were being cared for, rather than someone reeking of such desperation they brought their kids into an interview.
CHOICES, people has them! Especially single homeless mothers.
Aaargh!!!!
And with that I must back out of this thread for a few.
There is no way they would hire someone who brought her 6 month old to an interview with her. The job market is bad enough as it is - employers can already be super picky. They probably wouldn't have even let her interview at all.
This story is so sad. The picture is heartbreaking. I cannot imagine the desperation she may have been feeling, and how horrified she must have been to come out to officers surrounding her car and taking her babies.
I wish for her sake and that of her small children that she had thought to just take them in with her. That seems like the safest possible action in the situation, and one that was well within her reach. I imagine that if she had that idea she probably thought it would hurt her chances of getting the job, and maybe it would have. It's just all so frustrating. Thank goodness her kids are ok. I hope she's able to use the money raised for her to position herself so that she doesn't have to make those kinds of hard, no win choices again.
Really, you think she didn't consider that? Would you hire someone that dragged two kids in with her for an interview? Has that EVER happened, in the history of single-women working to take care of their children in the modern age??? To her, in her desperation, the better choice would have been a short interview where they DIDN'T know that the kids were out in the car but possibly assumed they were being cared for, rather than someone reeking of such desperation they brought their kids into an interview.
CHOICES, people has them! Especially single homeless mothers.
Aaargh!!!!
And with that I must back out of this thread for a few.
I actually addressed the fact that she may have considered it. I also addressed the fact that she likely chose not to bring them inside based on the likelihood that bringing them inside would lessen her chances of getting the job. I chose my words carefully. I don't know-and frankly, neither do you-exactly what she was thinking. As I said before, I'm glad the kids are ok, and I hope she is able to use the funds raised for her to pay her legal fees and change her current situation.
This is a bit off topic but to address some of the debate about the temperature and whether it was too warm or not up thread- even if it was 65 degrees and cloudy the temperature can rise to dangerous levels for small children alarmingly fast. It seems that if some people on this board don't even know that, I doubt this woman understood how dangerous that could be (choices aside).
There is a Pulitzer Prize winning article from the Washington post about kids left in cars that was life changing for me and it's worth reading.
I feel sad for this woman, she's lucky her kids didn't die.
This is a bit off topic but to address some of the debate about the temperature and whether it was too warm or not up thread- even if it was 65 degrees and cloudy the temperature can rise to dangerous levels for small children alarmingly fast. It seems that if some people on this board don't even know that, I doubt this woman understood how dangerous that could be (choices aside).
There is a Pulitzer Prize winning article from the Washington post about kids left in cars that was life changing for me and it's worth reading.
I feel sad for this woman, she's lucky her kids didn't die.
I read that story when it first ran and a couple of times since then and it will make you teary. Which is why I feel so very sorry for this woman. So very sorry that this was her best option.
yes, I feel bad for her. I don't know what a workable solution is though. (I've read many posters saying the United States is so bad about taking care of women and children in this situation, what do other countries do that's better? Serious question, not snarky.) I read a different article that stated when the police arrived it was 100 degrees inside the car, 80 something outside. And the baby was in 2 shirts, one of them long sleeved, with a blanket over top. So lucky that they were ok.
I read that story when it first ran and a couple of times since then and it will make you teary. Which is why I feel so very sorry for this woman. So very sorry that this was her best option.
yes, I feel bad for her. I don't know what a workable solution is though. (I've read many posters saying the United States is so bad about taking care of women and children in this situation, what do other countries do that's better? Serious question, not snarky.) I read a different article that stated when the police arrived it was 100 degrees inside the car, 80 something outside. And the baby was in 2 shirts, one of them long sleeved, with a blanket over top. So lucky that they were ok.
Post by statlerwaldorf on Mar 31, 2014 18:37:35 GMT -5
There is a local temp agency that has a sign on their door saying no children allowed. They will not allow you to apply in person or interview if you bring your children.
@mx - that Rudd story broke my heart. While I was in DC, they kept airing it, and I was devastated by it. Truly devastated.
They found the body of the man Relisha was with tonight in a park. The police chief said it appears to be a suicide. I have a terrible feeling that they are going to find her body next. Horrible.
You're totally over-thinking it. In a company large enough to have that benefit, HR will set up the interview, offer the benefit, and know if the applicant uses it. The hiring manager will just be concerned about the applicant as the applicant and won't even know the applicant used the service unless she volunteers that information. Even if she does, it doesn't make her risky. It makes her reliable because they know she needs the job. But really, there'd be way too much disconnect for them to even consider it in all likelihood.
I have never heard of a company letting you use their childcare for the interview! That seems.. odd.
I am glad that this story didn't end with two children who died in the hot car. This story does not inspire me to donate to her, it makes me think she is a very lucky woman that nothing bad happened to her children that she left in a very dangerous situation.
Leaving two kids in a car in Arizona could have been lethal. Obviously I have compassion for her situation, but this wasn't a situation where she forgot about those kids. They were purposefully left in the car. They could have died.
Could have been, but what was she to do? Sadly, there is not much. I am glad judgymcjudgersons are alive and well in this thread (and I am just on page 1)
I wonder if this is something a women's shelter could provide as another one of their services. I know the one in Houston provides help with job searching, counseling for children as well as the DV victims themselves, and they provide childcare while the women are in group therapy. They also help with things like transport to the center and when looking for jobs, so this definitely fits within the scope of what they do. It's probably just a matter of funding and getting more qualified volunteers.
I was on the board of directors for our local women's shelter way back when, and I think k I remember that the women always had to be within shouting distance of the children. I imagine that's for a variety of reasons, like reducing the chances the woman would.leave the child at the shelter and return to the perp, but I also think it was a liability issue for the center, especially with a population of children who likely faced abuse before. I don't know that's common practice, but it could be a hangup for that type of service.