And the fact is that very few people genuinely NEED an SUV or a crossover. If you have a lot of kids, yes, you may need a minivan.
But if you have a family of four or fewer and find a standard/full sized sedan is insufficient for your daily needs, you should probably re-evaluate a lot of things.
I've had a beer and sun brain and don't feel like going through policy papers. I don't think those really answered what I was asking though. Which is just data regarding the type of car for all car related injuries.
Right. I want to know if SUVs are more likely to get into accidents.
Isn't this the same for Minivans vs cars? I feel they are higher too, but could be completely wrong.
Maybe. I haven't looked into this.
I think a huge difference is the prevalence. Far fewer people run out and buy a minivan if a Toyota Camry will meet their needs. But very few people who dive a RAV4 would be unable to make a Camry work for their day to day lives.
IDK. The vast majority of people I know who drive an SUV or crossover actually do have lifestyles that make it preferable if not a necessity. But then most of the people I know who drive one have a passel of kids, a golf habit, load up for boy scouts, or transport youth twice a week. The majority of people I know with less kids or no kids drive sedans.
But most of the people I know drive their vehicles into the ground so you know.
I've had a beer and sun brain and don't feel like going through policy papers. I don't think those really answered what I was asking though. Which is just data regarding the type of car for all car related injuries.
Right. I want to know if SUVs are more likely to get into accidents.
From everything I've read in the past (and no, I don't have that information at my fingertips right now), the problem is not the frequency of accidents but the severity of damage.
Due to the bumper heights, an SUV-passenger car crash is likely to have a much worse outcome for the passenger car than if it were a 2-passenger-car crash. And cyclists and pedestrians generally sustain more serious injuries if hit by an SUV vs. a passenger car.
So basically SUVs are safe for those IN the SUV but more dangerous for anyone else unlucky enough to be involved in a crash with one.
Right. I want to know if SUVs are more likely to get into accidents.
From everything I've read in the past (and no, I don't have that information at my fingertips right now), the problem is not the frequency of accidents but the severity of damage.
Due to the bumper heights, an SUV-passenger car crash is likely to have a much worse outcome for the passenger car than if it were a 2-passenger-car crash. And cyclists and pedestrians generally sustain more serious injuries if hit by an SUV vs. a passenger car.
So basically SUVs are safe for those IN the SUV but more dangerous for anyone else unlucky enough to be involved in a crash with one.
As has been repeated ad nauseum. Thus, why that's not the question I'm asking. I mean if a sedan hits a pedestrian or a bike or a motorcycle, we all know who is going to be more injured. We aren't suggesting everyone give up their sedans. Instead, we acknowledge the issue and create awareness as well as rules and regulations to decrease the amount of those types of collisions.
After all, mobile homes go up quick if there is a fire. We don't argue that everyone should live in a house and treat manufactured homes like death traps seeing to devour whole families and anyone who lives in one a careless asshole who doesn't care if people die in their death house.
I think a huge difference is the prevalence. Far fewer people run out and buy a minivan if a Toyota Camry will meet their needs. But very few people who dive a RAV4 would be unable to make a Camry work for their day to day lives.
IDK. The vast majority of people I know who drive an SUV or crossover actually do have lifestyles that make it preferable if not a necessity. But then most of the people I know who drive one have a passel of kids, a golf habit, load up for boy scouts, or transport youth twice a week. The majority of people I know with less kids or no kids drive sedans.
But most of the people I know drive their vehicles into the ground so you know.
But very few of those things couldn't be done with a sedan. I'm not talking about a Mini Cooper. But a basic sedan - a Camry, an Accord, a Fusion. You can fit several sets of golf clubs in a regular trunk. The popular crossovers don't seat any more people than a traditional sedan. In fact, some sedans are several inches wider than small SUVs/crossover.
Until you get to a truly large vehicle with third row seating, there is very little that can be done in the most popular small SUVs/crossovers that cannot be in a full sized sedan.
But very few of those things couldn't be done with a sedan. I'm not talking about a Mini Cooper. But a basic sedan - a Camry, an Accord, a Fusion. You can fit several sets of golf clubs in a regular trunk. The popular crossovers don't seat any more people than a traditional sedan. In fact, some sedans are several inches wider than small SUVs/crossover.
Until you get to a truly large vehicle with third row seating, there is very little that can be done in the most popular small SUVs/crossovers that cannot be in a full sized sedan.
Yeah no. I don't want a sedan. Even when I only had two kids, I didn't find them useful for my lifestyle. But I suppose I should reevaluate my need to haul a week's worth of laundry back and forth to the laundromat.
ETA: also, I have yet to see a sedan where whole back row lays down and leaves a high clearance. Let me tell you how many times I've moved shit in and out of a new rental with my nifty little SUV.
From everything I've read in the past (and no, I don't have that information at my fingertips right now), the problem is not the frequency of accidents but the severity of damage.
Due to the bumper heights, an SUV-passenger car crash is likely to have a much worse outcome for the passenger car than if it were a 2-passenger-car crash. And cyclists and pedestrians generally sustain more serious injuries if hit by an SUV vs. a passenger car.
So basically SUVs are safe for those IN the SUV but more dangerous for anyone else unlucky enough to be involved in a crash with one.
As has been repeated ad nauseum. Thus, why that's not the question I'm asking. I mean if a sedan hits a pedestrian or a bike or a motorcycle, we all know who is going to be more injured. We aren't suggesting everyone give up their sedans. Instead, we acknowledge the issue and create awareness as well as rules and regulations to decrease the amount of those types of collisions.
After all, mobile homes go up quick if there is a fire. We don't argue that everyone should live in a house and treat manufactured homes like death traps seeing to devour whole families and anyone who lives in one a careless asshole who doesn't care if people die in their death house.
The mobile home analogy fails because someone else's choice to live in a mobile home does not endanger pedestrians and cyclists and other homeowners. I can be the most careful, most defensive driver, pedestrian, or cyclist in the world. But shit still happens.
Someone else's choice to drive an SUV or crossover poses a direct safety risk to other people on the road. And yes, a sedan is more dangerous to a cyclist than another cyclist is. But it's all about balancing a driver's needs with the societal need for safety. Sedans are much better at achieving this balance than SUVs. I'd argue that for the vast majority of people, the benefits the SUV driver experiences simply do not justify the significantly increased safety risks posed to others on the roadway.
But very few of those things couldn't be done with a sedan. I'm not talking about a Mini Cooper. But a basic sedan - a Camry, an Accord, a Fusion. You can fit several sets of golf clubs in a regular trunk. The popular crossovers don't seat any more people than a traditional sedan. In fact, some sedans are several inches wider than small SUVs/crossover.
Until you get to a truly large vehicle with third row seating, there is very little that can be done in the most popular small SUVs/crossovers that cannot be in a full sized sedan.
Yeah no. I don't want a sedan. Even when I only had two kids, I didn't find them useful for my lifestyle. But I suppose I should reevaluate my need to haul a week's worth of laundry back and forth to the laundromat.
But not wanting a sedan doesn't mean it wouldn't satisfy your needs. You absolutely could fit that laundry in the trunk of a sedan.
The mobile home analogy fails because someone else's choice to live in a mobile home does not endanger pedestrians and cyclists and other homeowners. I can be the most careful, most defensive driver, pedestrian, or cyclist in the world. But shit still happens.
Someone else's choice to drive an SUV or crossover poses a direct safety risk to other people on the road. And yes, a sedan is more dangerous to a cyclist than another cyclist is. But it's all about balancing a driver's needs with the societal need for safety. Sedans are much better at achieving this balance than SUVs. I'd argue that for the vast majority of people, the benefits the SUV driver experiences simply do not justify the significantly increased safety risks posed to others on the roadway.
Yes, but you're making a personal judgement call for everyone else and it just doesn't work. I've already illustrated a number of reasons my little SUV has worked out better for me than the sedans you're suggesting. So for you, I'm sure a sedan works just fine. For me, it does not. And it's not because I don't give a shit about the people I share the road with either.
Yeah no. I don't want a sedan. Even when I only had two kids, I didn't find them useful for my lifestyle. But I suppose I should reevaluate my need to haul a week's worth of laundry back and forth to the laundromat.
But not wanting a sedan doesn't mean it wouldn't satisfy your needs. You absolutely could fit that laundry in the trunk of a sedan.
No, I couldn't.
Shall I take a picture next time I go?
Or maybe I should have taken a picture two days ago when my husband and I finagled his big screen tv in there for the fourth move since we've owned the thing.
Well you know who always survives the crash at the expense of others? Semi drivers. Given our collective Amazon obsession I don't see us getting rid of semis anytime soon!
IDK. The vast majority of people I know who drive an SUV or crossover actually do have lifestyles that make it preferable if not a necessity. But then most of the people I know who drive one have a passel of kids, a golf habit, load up for boy scouts, or transport youth twice a week. The majority of people I know with less kids or no kids drive sedans.
But most of the people I know drive their vehicles into the ground so you know.
But very few of those things couldn't be done with a sedan. I'm not talking about a Mini Cooper. But a basic sedan - a Camry, an Accord, a Fusion. You can fit several sets of golf clubs in a regular trunk. The popular crossovers don't seat any more people than a traditional sedan. In fact, some sedans are several inches wider than small SUVs/crossover.
Until you get to a truly large vehicle with third row seating, there is very little that can be done in the most popular small SUVs/crossovers that cannot be in a full sized sedan.
We had an Acura TL, and we don't have a passel of kids or a golf habit, but we have two dogs, an outdoor habit, I drive to the outreaches of obscurity at least 4-5 times a month hauling equipment. I totally agree with you, we don't need a third row of seating, but we need a super flexible car that has space in the back for dogs, easily adapts for bikes, holds teaching equipment...The TL just-didn't and I can tell you that a freaking Accord definitely wouldn't do those things for us.
The minute we got our Forester and we put our dogs in the glorious, open spaced back hatch area (where you can also put a full sized crate for added safety if needed)--and we had room for bags in the back row of seating; PLUS we could haul our bikes to the mountains---AND the Forester has a turbo charged engine.
I kinda cried a little I was so in love with it.
I have found that there is actually A LOT I can do in my little Forester that the Acura didn't do for me.
I don't think anyone needs an SUV, it's a want. Just like a car, really, but everyone will have an excuse/reason to get x car vs y suv, etc.
I think the issue is, they are more dangerous to all-pedestrians, drivers in sedans/motorcycles...all of this is regardless of crash test results. The bigger thing 'wins'. I
Not really, but I think that is subjective. I can get LT out of my husband's coupe just fine. An SUV, by and large, has less cargo space than my outback. Anecdotes and all, I know, but I think, again, it is just a way to justify a purchase. It's human nature.
Post by LoveTrains on Jul 13, 2014 18:26:37 GMT -5
I have a subaru forester and I truly love it. It's the perfect size for me and H to haul all our crap for the dog and not worry about packing compactly when we go places via car. I can parallel park it like a champ in the city. I am actually able to see over the steering wheel (I'm only 5 feet tall) and I have so much better vision of the road in it than I did in a regular car/sedan.
I wouldn't really consider something bigger. We are considering a subaru crosstrek for our next vehicle because the new forester is bigger than our model. or perhaps a bmw x1 but the car tax on that will be pretty high I think.
Look, I don't think a mother of two needs a damned Tahoe solely because she has two kids. That's ridiculous. But I think it's equally ridiculous to behave as if an SUV is just the most unreasonable thing for someone to purchase and that there is no benefit to owning any sort of SUV or crossover or that a sedan will always suffice.
IDK. The vast majority of people I know who drive an SUV or crossover actually do have lifestyles that make it preferable if not a necessity. But then most of the people I know who drive one have a passel of kids, a golf habit, load up for boy scouts, or transport youth twice a week. The majority of people I know with less kids or no kids drive sedans.
But most of the people I know drive their vehicles into the ground so you know.
But very few of those things couldn't be done with a sedan. I'm not talking about a Mini Cooper. But a basic sedan - a Camry, an Accord, a Fusion. You can fit several sets of golf clubs in a regular trunk. The popular crossovers don't seat any more people than a traditional sedan. In fact, some sedans are several inches wider than small SUVs/crossover.
Until you get to a truly large vehicle with third row seating, there is very little that can be done in the most popular small SUVs/crossovers that cannot be in a full sized sedan.
I am sure that some full sized sedans are bigger than my crossover. In fact, that is why I wouldn't want a full size sedan - I don't want any car that is longer than mine (too hard to parallel park) and I find it easier to haul stuff with a hatch plus there is better visibility out the back (but not in all crossovers, just in mine).
I wonder if my husband could fit his TA-50, Molly, and rucksacks in a sedan. I suppose he'd have to choose. And he definitely isn't getting a toughbox in there too.
Not really, but I think that is subjective. I can get LT out of my husband's coupe just fine. An SUV, by and large, has less cargo space than my outback. Anecdotes and all, I know, but I think, again, it is just a way to justify a purchase. It's human nature.
Well okay but we buy cars based on our subjective preferences. It is much easier for me to haul a toddler in a CRV than a corolla (or my parents Altima, which is my only other car with a kid experience).
Eta: an outback is not a sedan. Those would be comparable to a SUV in terms of cargo space and layout.
Not really, but I think that is subjective. I can get LT out of my husband's coupe just fine. An SUV, by and large, has less cargo space than my outback. Anecdotes and all, I know, but I think, again, it is just a way to justify a purchase. It's human nature.
Well okay but we buy cars based on our subjective preferences. It is much easier for me to haul a toddler in a CRV than a corolla (or my parents Altima, which is my only other car with a kid experience).
Eta: an outback is not a sedan. Those would be comparable to a SUV in terms of cargo space and layout.
Depends on the Outback. There are sedan versions and station wagon versions. Definitely same height as a car/sedan.
Well okay but we buy cars based on our subjective preferences. It is much easier for me to haul a toddler in a CRV than a corolla (or my parents Altima, which is my only other car with a kid experience).
Eta: an outback is not a sedan. Those would be comparable to a SUV in terms of cargo space and layout.
Depends on the Outback. There are sedan versions and station wagon versions. Definitely same height as a car/sedan.
But they are all hatch backs. Which is what makes them easier to pack.