Maybe I shouldn't pick on NSU. Many school districts have salary schedules which reward graduate credit or degrees. In the 70's and 80's NOVA was a pioneer in what we today call "distance education" but NOVA was widely viewed as a "degree mill" where you paid for your degree, rather than earning it. This was particularly popular with teachers who could earn more money as they completed credits (or degrees) without physically going to a campus. If the courses were also easy, so much the better for the teachers.
If you google "NOVA university degree mill controversy" you can see a SunSentinel article that mentions this. There is also an About.com page about degree mills that no longer lists NOVA as a degree mill but has numerous angry comments (who knew such a thing were possible?) about it being having earlier been included on the page as a degree mill.
Certainly it's true that distance education and for-profit Universities are more acceptable today. I'm sure they are perfectly acceptable to some people and others (like me) are traditionalists and make distinctions (but, full disclosure, I work for a traditional university).
I really should be calling Zack Jud a douchebag or calling all of you stupid, but there's actually an interesting issue here. College/university tuition prices have been rising faster than inflation for decades and there are at least two schools of thought about why. One school of thought says that schools are hiring too many non-teaching personnel, like sub-vice-provosts for snack dips, assorted coaches, admissions recruiters, people to handle red tape in any number of areas like financial aid, international students, accreditation, etc. This view points out that some of these positions are very well-paid.
Now, if I haven't lost all of you, the other view argues that the reason that degrees are expensive is because schools have not become more efficient. The argument is that any industry that shuns efficiency will become more expensive over time. As an example, they say that haircuts have also risen in price because the cost of having individual services of a barber/stylist has risen and haircutting hasn't seen any substantial increases in efficiency. Who knows what a car would cost if each one were handcrafted? The innovations that have increased efficiency have lowered the cost of making a car, so cars are still affordable.
So, going back to NOVA and distance education, I think NSU could well be the future of education. Tuition cannot rise unchecked forever. It's true that like NOVA's critics, most of the things that schools could do to be more efficient would be seen by the faculty as watering-down the education (like distance learning). But probably there will come a point in the not-to-distant future where most or all students will complete a BA/BS without ever meeting a professor in person. (Although, to be fair, I took plenty of classes at a traditional university where there were 100 or more students and that's essentially the same situation).
No, you don't get it. And actually, in order to avoid being branded a plagiarist, I must cite some earlier poster (but I cannot recall who), who pointed this out to me/us: Google will index these pages. The only way I find my way back to this thread is to google "zack jud douchebag" If I branch out, this page will be buried in the rankings.
WTF is up with your collective obsession with GIFs?
I've read more or less all the posts and I laughed at a lot of them (occasionally for the intended reason, fiend of a friend indeed) but I sadly I have work to do tonight. So, feel free to post all your zingers assured that I'll eventually be completely crushed by them. Especially the ones about my typin.. those REALLY sting.
Ok, I will add this: A bunch of you dimwits have twisted my argument. I say "You shouldn't hold a 12-year-old's science fair project to the same standards of scholarship as a professional scientist." and you come back with stupid shit like "c-i-t-a-t-i-o-n-s" or "blah blah common core blah third graders" or "What parent can defend this shit?" IMPLYING that I mean that she doesn't need citations or some stupid shit like that.
I accept that it is MY FAULT that you don't get what I'm saying because I used big words and most of you have NO FUCKING CLUE what "standards of scholarship" or "professional scientist" mean.
(And I know that some of you do know what these terms mean and maybe some of you are are getting all indignant about the language I'm using with the low masses but let me ask you: If you were in a Ph.D. student's presentation and she omitted a major citation in her area, would you accuse her of PLAGIARISM? No, you wouldn't (unless you're an idiot) because this happens. In fact, if Amy hates Bob and they work in the same area and Amy writes a paper using a different design than Bob's and omitting any reference to his work, you wouldn't even call THAT plagiarism. You would see it as bad behavior. If you were on Amy's committee or you were reviewing her paper, you might force her to cite Bob or reject her work but you wouldn't accuse her of plagiarism. You and I both know you wouldn't. But a bunch of ignorant, self-important idiots are throwing the p-word around quite a bit too much. They need to be put in their place.)
What I mean is that it's really not the end of the world if a 12-year-old's science fair project didn't cite all the relevant literature. It is BLINDINGLY FUCKING OBVIOUS (unless you're just dirt-eating-stupid) that 12-year-olds are not prepared to evaluate the literature like a professional. Think about it, you stupid haters are completely denigrating (oh, carp, another big word) everyone with a BS/BA or graduate degree by assuming that this girl should be held to the same standards as her douchebag father or Zack "I'm a whiny douche bag" Jud.
(As an aside, why haven't any of you crazy spelling nuts pointed out that the preferred spelling of douchebag was as a single word? Who looks stupid now?)
So, yeah, she didn't cite Jud (I guess, I don't think we know that, but let's assume it's true) and that's not the end of the FUCKING world. It's NOT reasonable to demand that a 12-year-old's science fair project be as complete and accurate of a literature review as a Ph.D. professional scientist. Especially if you ARE a professional (whiney, douchebag) scientist, like Jud.
And I'm not saying she shouldn't try. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to be complete and accurate. I'm not saying professional standards aren't good or that students shouldn't try to follow them. I'm not saying ANY of the crazy stupid shit that you lowbrows are putting in my mouth. In fact, try this test: If it seems stupid to you, I'm definitely not saying it, because I'm a LOT brighter than you.
Had to come up for air after all that.
Guys, he's just funnin' with us. Don't take the bait.
I accept that it is MY FAULT that you don't get what I'm saying because I used big words and most of you have NO FUCKING CLUE what "standards of scholarship" or "professional scientist" mean.
(And I know that some of you do know what these terms mean and maybe some of you are are getting all indignant about the language I'm using with the low masses but let me ask you: If you were in a Ph.D. student's presentation and she omitted a major citation in her area, would you accuse her of PLAGIARISM? No, you wouldn't (unless you're an idiot) because this happens. In fact, if Amy hates Bob and they work in the same area and Amy writes a paper using a different design than Bob's and omitting any reference to his work, you wouldn't even call THAT plagiarism. You would see it as bad behavior. If you were on Amy's committee or you were reviewing her paper, you might force her to cite Bob or reject her work but you wouldn't accuse her of plagiarism. You and I both know you wouldn't. But a bunch of ignorant, self-important idiots are throwing the p-word around quite a bit too much. They need to be put in their place.)
Are you typing this with a straight face? What is wrong with you?
If I were in a Ph.D. student's presentation and she omitted a major citation in her area, I would approach her after the presentation and ask her if she was familiar with Bob's work. If she said no, I would conclude that she was a shitty researcher, but I would suggest that she look him up and incorporate him into her studies, because his research was pretty pivotal for her area and needed a nod. Because that's MY job - to teach a Ph.D. student to properly cite past research, not blindly skip down the path taking credit where she shouldn't.
If I was reviewing that paper for a journal? You've painted that situation with a pretty broad brush, but I have called out a situation like that for plagiarism. So don't you come dancing on here, stating none of us wouldn't accuse people of plagiarism. Because some of us apparently have the ethical standards that you lack.
You're right. Science doesn't need male Ph.D.'s who are threatened by 12 year olds. What science really doesn't need is male Ph.D.'s...like yourself...who would rather insult the intelligence of a group of people than demonstrate a clear lack of ethical and moral standards.
Maybe I shouldn't pick on NSU. Many school districts have salary schedules which reward graduate credit or degrees. In the 70's and 80's NOVA was a pioneer in what we today call "distance education" but NOVA was widely viewed as a "degree mill" where you paid for your degree, rather than earning it. This was particularly popular with teachers who could earn more money as they completed credits (or degrees) without physically going to a campus. If the courses were also easy, so much the better for the teachers.
If you google "NOVA university degree mill controversy" you can see a SunSentinel article that mentions this. There is also an About.com page about degree mills that no longer lists NOVA as a degree mill but has numerous angry comments (who knew such a thing were possible?) about it being having earlier been included on the page as a degree mill.
Certainly it's true that distance education and for-profit Universities are more acceptable today. I'm sure they are perfectly acceptable to some people and others (like me) are traditionalists and make distinctions (but, full disclosure, I work for a traditional university).
I really should be calling Zack Jud a douchebag or calling all of you stupid, but there's actually an interesting issue here. College/university tuition prices have been rising faster than inflation for decades and there are at least two schools of thought about why. One school of thought says that schools are hiring too many non-teaching personnel, like sub-vice-provosts for snack dips, assorted coaches, admissions recruiters, people to handle red tape in any number of areas like financial aid, international students, accreditation, etc. This view points out that some of these positions are very well-paid.
Now, if I haven't lost all of you, the other view argues that the reason that degrees are expensive is because schools have not become more efficient. The argument is that any industry that shuns efficiency will become more expensive over time. As an example, they say that haircuts have also risen in price because the cost of having individual services of a barber/stylist has risen and haircutting hasn't seen any substantial increases in efficiency. Who knows what a car would cost if each one were handcrafted? The innovations that have increased efficiency have lowered the cost of making a car, so cars are still affordable.
So, going back to NOVA and distance education, I think NSU could well be the future of education. Tuition cannot rise unchecked forever. It's true that like NOVA's critics, most of the things that schools could do to be more efficient would be seen by the faculty as watering-down the education (like distance learning). But probably there will come a point in the not-to-distant future where most or all students will complete a BA/BS without ever meeting a professor in person. (Although, to be fair, I took plenty of classes at a traditional university where there were 100 or more students and that's essentially the same situation).
Hey, remember that time a few hours ago we posted an article that actually refutes this? pandce.proboards.com/thread/340025/reality-student-debt-different-clich / mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/upshot/the-reality-of-student-debt-is-different-from-the-cliches.html?rref=upshot&_r=1&referrer=
Contrary to popular belief, average tuition at private (nonprofit) colleges has not increased any faster than overall inflation over the last decade, once financial aid is taken into account, according to College Board data.
I accept that it is MY FAULT that you don't get what I'm saying because I used big words and most of you have NO FUCKING CLUE what "standards of scholarship" or "professional scientist" mean.
(And I know that some of you do know what these terms mean and maybe some of you are are getting all indignant about the language I'm using with the low masses but let me ask you: If you were in a Ph.D. student's presentation and she omitted a major citation in her area, would you accuse her of PLAGIARISM? No, you wouldn't (unless you're an idiot) because this happens. In fact, if Amy hates Bob and they work in the same area and Amy writes a paper using a different design than Bob's and omitting any reference to his work, you wouldn't even call THAT plagiarism. You would see it as bad behavior. If you were on Amy's committee or you were reviewing her paper, you might force her to cite Bob or reject her work but you wouldn't accuse her of plagiarism. You and I both know you wouldn't. But a bunch of ignorant, self-important idiots are throwing the p-word around quite a bit too much. They need to be put in their place.)
Are you typing this with a straight face? What is wrong with you?
If I were in a Ph.D. student's presentation and she omitted a major citation in her area, I would approach her after the presentation and ask her if she was familiar with Bob's work. If she said no, I would conclude that she was a shitty researcher, but I would suggest that she look him up and incorporate him into her studies, because his research was pretty pivotal for her area and needed a nod. Because that's MY job - to teach a Ph.D. student to properly cite past research, not blindly skip down the path taking credit where she shouldn't.
You're really crappy at agreeing with people (or pretty crappy at making an argument that doesn't completely agree with my point). But don't worry, I'm pretty bright; I can see what you mean. And let's leave our winky dinks out of this, shall we? I left your GIF in to make you happy, because that's what I'm all about.
I really should be calling Zack Jud a douchebag or calling all of you stupid, but there's actually an interesting issue here. College/university tuition prices have been rising faster than inflation for decades and ...
Hey, remember that time a few hours ago we posted an article that actually refutes this? pandce.proboards.com/thread/340025/reality-student-debt-different-clich / mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/upshot/the-reality-of-student-debt-is-different-from-the-cliches.html?rref=upshot&_r=1&referrer=
No, you're going to be shocked to learn that I don't read much on this board, but that link sounds interesting. It also contradicts my direct experience.
However, you get a shiny bright star for disagreeing with Dr. Knowitall. It's all the rage these days... all the cool kids are doin' it.
It's been my experience that the brightest of people do not really need to call attention to their apparent intelligence. You seem awfully invested in letting people here know just how thuper duper smart you really are. Are you a practicing researcher? Do you publish regularly? Care to share your H-index so we can see just how much you actually contribute to the scientific community?
You're really crappy at agreeing with people (or pretty crappy at making an argument that doesn't completely agree with my point). But don't worry, I'm pretty bright; I can see what you mean. And let's leave our winky dinks out of this, shall we? I left your GIF in to make you happy, because that's what I'm all about.
I like that you cleverly left out the whole part where I said that I've actually called other researchers out for plagiarism and refused to accept their research for publication when reviewing for journals. You know. The part that didn't agree one iota with what you said?
And I don't have a winky dink. I'm a *GASP* female scientist. Though I like where epphd is going with this. Care to share your H-index? Your i10-index? How many times have you been cited?
Post by irishbride2 on Jul 30, 2014 5:18:58 GMT -5
I admit I'm smirking at someone from FIU being a snob about University quality. I mean, it's fine. But I'm not sure it puts you high enough on a pedastal to look down on others lol.
eta I was curious. FIU is ranked 521 out of 650. NOVA is ranked 554 out of 650. So I guess those 33 spots really make someone feel a sense of superiority.
I've been reflecting on why I give the dad a pass and label Zack Jud as a douche bag or a collossal asshat. And my conclusion was that I was wrong and that the dad is just as much a douche bag/CAH as Dr. Jud.
And if this quote is true, that's a complete douche bag kind of thing to say.
So, I agree with you (you'll have to find something else to criticize.. let's be guve you some typos, those seem popoolar).
But... but ... I think it's even more pathetic that Jud is still grinding this axe. What a FUCKING DOUCHE BAG.
Ok I've never picked on grammar because, usually there's more obvious stuff to mock (and I have fallen victim to autocorrect more than I'd like to admit), But really, the Jud really doesn't resemble a douche to me, at all.
I'm not a scientist, but from what I've seen here stealing or taking credit for or not acknowledging a scientist's work is a no-no. I don't blame the guy for, I don't know, wanting credit?