Playing devils advocate on the return trip- I can see with driving how they might not have a set date- if they're having a blast and want to stay a day of two longer they can, if it's raining and the kids are acting up blah blah maybe they come home early. I don't think that would bother me IF nothing else was setting my gut off. I would flat out ask to make sure x wasn't going to be around and ask for as much of the itinerary as they know and then decide from there now I felt
Okay, even if that is true, her SIL could tell her that. Knowing what day they're departing and planning to head home, as well as exactly where they're going are things I would need to know if my child was going with anyone.
As someone who did the yearly road trip to FL with extended family, the lack of a firm return date is understandable. They are not staying at a hotel - there is no "checkout" time, and it's a 1-2 day drive depending on how you do it. I get why they'd be breezy about the return. I also understand why this text from you ex is jarring and suspect that he probably intended for that to happen.
I would be totally up front about the text w/ your SIL. If she is understanding / reassuring, than maybe you'll feel more comfortable. If she gets defensive, well then there's your answer. Based on the prior debacle with the grandparent visit, it sounds like his family kind of "gets it."
Maybe I'm being Pollyanna about this, but it doesn't sound that sketchy. Your XH texted you to be a jerk. His sister is being vague about a return date because she's in a van with 4 kids (bless her heart). However, I think you need to be clear with your XSIL about your concerns and get some answers from her. She may not realize how nervous you are about this trip and if you explain your concerns you should get some resolution. And if you don't, keep your DD home.
Tough love: BE THE PARENT here. CALL your xsil and use your words. "I have concerns about the FL trip. Can you tell me exactly everything that is planned? Do you not have a set return date because of XYZ? If so, I could be ok with that IF YOU CALLLLLLLLLL ME AND KEEP ME INFORMED OF THE DETAILS. I'm worried about DD and want to make sure she is comfortable on this trip."
If you don't like ANYthing you hear, BE THE PARENT and cancel the trip.
I'm not pollyanna'ing this, but I think it's ok that they have no planned return trip since they're staying at FILs and I'm sure the rooming arrangements are an open-door. HOWever, your kid, your rules. You need to be in the loop on EVERYthing.
I get effed up 'IL' situations. DH comes from a vast and storied parental divorce. It is exhausting trying to keep both sides sane.
I think not knowing exactly when returning makes sense now knowing 2 parents and 4 kids driving. That is a long drive and they may be conteplating breaking it up into 2 days or driving through. However, xsil needs to communicate this with you. I think you just need to be upfront as others have said - "XH texted me, I am worried that he will be around." Make sure she responds with something like "OMG,what a dick - never. We are keeping your DD with us and grandpa" I would be nervous but I would still probably let her go as long as XSIL is on the same page.
Post by sparkythelawyer on Aug 1, 2014 9:02:36 GMT -5
You are a really nice person.
But I'm concerned. You seem to need to be hit over the head where your ex and your inlaws and how they treat you and your child are concerned. Your daughter had to push to not have to see this guy (and she was well justified in doing so if I remember), and now you are pussyfooting wondering if you are somehow being too mean to want to know where in the fuck your minor child is and when the fuck she will be home.
You are a really nice person. But saddle the hell up, my friend. YOU are parent, not the inlaws. Given the situation with your exhusband, they should be bending over backwards to make sure you are comfortable with every second of this trip, and they are not. She goes absolutely nowhere until a firm plan is in place and you have contact information for every single place she's staying at. That they are being vague here is EXTREMELY disconcerting and I would be really worried about their intentions if I were you.
I talked with xsil. It really is a brutal trip to make with 4 kids and I really do trust her. She's a good person and I believe she only has my dds interests at heart. She will keep in contact with me throughout and I have to learn to let go and trust a little. I have her cell number, my xfils cell number and my dd has a phone. I have the address of my xfil and that is where they will be aside from some fun excursions.
I need to just keep my mom anxiety in check. They all know about xh and there is no way this is going to be a surprise reunion with him.
Post by fivechickens on Aug 1, 2014 9:08:36 GMT -5
Also, I am guessing your exSIL would not be so easy breezy with someone, taking her child to a different state and being all 'oh I don't know what we are doing/where we are going/staying but I will have them home Friday/Saturday/Sunday/Monday -I don't know when I'd rather not commit- but I promise to bring them back' so I don't know why they think it's okay to tell you that.
ETA: didn't see your post. I am glad you talked to her again and feel better.
I understand that with driving that long with kids, she may not be able to nail down exact time of day. But she SHOULD be able to say, 'We plan to leave FL sometime Friday morning. We plan to drive this many hours on Friday, then probably find somewhere to stay over night. We hope to be back by Sat evening, but I will keep you informed on each leg of the trip." Is she willing to do that, based on your most recent phone call with her?
Maybe I'm being Pollyanna about this, but it doesn't sound that sketchy.
I see your point, and I raise you a "so what?" curtains is in here bending over backwards trying to be comfortable with something that is not comfortable for her. This isn't "oh, I can't send little Johnny to kindergarten because I heard they use scissors there." This is a massive trip to visit distantish family. The parent is allowed to call ALL THE SHOTS here. And things like "TELL ME WHEN YOU'RE BRINGING MY KID BACK" and "make sure her asshole father doesn't come within 35 miles of her" is NORMAL.
Post by EmilieMadison on Aug 1, 2014 9:48:19 GMT -5
I get that if they were traveling with just their own children they could be flexible with dates. But when you are traveling that far with *someone else's child* you no longer have the ability to leave your return date open ended. And of course it's possible to pick a date of return and then, you know, RETURN on that date, even with a long drive and even with kids.
My parents dove our family of 7 across the country from MN to VT every year. It was at least a 3 day trip. But we always had a return date, and we made it back by that date every year. Because PLANNING.
She is going to keep in contact all week and I will be kept in the loop of their return and how many days and stops it should take to get her home.
My xils are super good people. I honestly wouldn't have even agreed in the first place if I didn't think so. It was just the lack of solid return plans and my xh that made me jumpy. And it is nice to know that is normal and I'm not alone when I over worry this stuff.
Thanks for being there ml. it is nice to just talk this stuff out, instead of getting all wound up in my head.
Maybe I'm being Pollyanna about this, but it doesn't sound that sketchy.
I see your point, and I raise you a "so what?" curtains is in here bending over backwards trying to be comfortable with something that is not comfortable for her. This isn't "oh, I can't send little Johnny to kindergarten because I heard they use scissors there." This is a massive trip to visit distantish family. The parent is allowed to call ALL THE SHOTS here. And things like "TELL ME WHEN YOU'RE BRINGING MY KID BACK" and "make sure her asshole father doesn't come within 35 miles of her" is NORMAL.
YEEES.
curtains, it sounds like you've spent a good part of your life ignoring your own instincts and trying to please others. It's hard to change that, but you must.
I realize you said that the family "knows" that you ex isn't to see your DD, but has anyone outright told you that under no circumstances will he be there? It sounds like (just from your posts) you're just going with the assumption that he wont be there because you dont want him to be.
Yeah, no way would I be taking someone else's child many states away, and just being all we'll arrive when we arrive.
And especially if there's backstory and crazy parent , come on. Good luck in what you decide, I hope dd is comfortable and not just going so she doesn't make waves or because she thinks she has to. If ex is nutty enough to text you semi threatening creepy texts, he's not looking out for her well being and it would worry me, but I always give the caveat that I'm an anxious person, so I am aware my views are anything but "breezy".
Maybe I'm being Pollyanna about this, but it doesn't sound that sketchy.
I see your point, and I raise you a "so what?" curtains is in here bending over backwards trying to be comfortable with something that is not comfortable for her. This isn't "oh, I can't send little Johnny to kindergarten because I heard they use scissors there." This is a massive trip to visit distantish family. The parent is allowed to call ALL THE SHOTS here. And things like "TELL ME WHEN YOU'RE BRINGING MY KID BACK" and "make sure her asshole father doesn't come within 35 miles of her" is NORMAL.
I said in my post that I thought she could and should get answers to her questions. I didn't think it was immediately elevated to the "You are the parent - keep her home!" level that some posters were proposing. I suggested that she get answers and then decide whether or not to keep her home.
I think a lot of it depends on the individual people and their personalities and level of trust with each other. If, when my ILs take Abby to Florida next year, they decided to drive and said, "We're not entirely sure what day we'll head out. It'll depend on how everyone's feeling," I'd be all, "Okay, well let me know when you decide. Have fun!" Because I know what kind of people they are.
But if there was an ex involved and I wasn't sure I could trust them, it wouldn't fly. curtains I'm glad you talked to her; it does sound like you trust her.
I see your point, and I raise you a "so what?" curtains is in here bending over backwards trying to be comfortable with something that is not comfortable for her. This isn't "oh, I can't send little Johnny to kindergarten because I heard they use scissors there." This is a massive trip to visit distantish family. The parent is allowed to call ALL THE SHOTS here. And things like "TELL ME WHEN YOU'RE BRINGING MY KID BACK" and "make sure her asshole father doesn't come within 35 miles of her" is NORMAL.
I said in my post that I thought she could and should get answers to her questions. I didn't think it was immediately elevated to the "You are the parent - keep her home!" level that some posters were proposing. I suggested that she get answers and then decide whether or not to keep her home.
But the point is that she has TRIED to get answers and she's being flat out ignored. When you say, not for the first time, "Hey, what day will you be home? I need to know." and the person IGNORES you, that is your answer.
Maybe I'm being Pollyanna about this, but it doesn't sound that sketchy.
I see your point, and I raise you a "so what?" curtains is in here bending over backwards trying to be comfortable with something that is not comfortable for her. This isn't "oh, I can't send little Johnny to kindergarten because I heard they use scissors there." This is a massive trip to visit distantish family. The parent is allowed to call ALL THE SHOTS here. And things like "TELL ME WHEN YOU'RE BRINGING MY KID BACK" and "make sure her asshole father doesn't come within 35 miles of her" is NORMAL.
Thank you that is exactly how I felt. I think I even used caps lock in my head, lol
I see your point, and I raise you a "so what?" curtains is in here bending over backwards trying to be comfortable with something that is not comfortable for her. This isn't "oh, I can't send little Johnny to kindergarten because I heard they use scissors there." This is a massive trip to visit distantish family. The parent is allowed to call ALL THE SHOTS here. And things like "TELL ME WHEN YOU'RE BRINGING MY KID BACK" and "make sure her asshole father doesn't come within 35 miles of her" is NORMAL.
I said in my post that I thought she could and should get answers to her questions. I didn't think it was immediately elevated to the "You are the parent - keep her home!" level that some posters were proposing. I suggested that she get answers and then decide whether or not to keep her home.
Uh, so did everyone else. I'm not even arguing with you here. Curtains needs to trust her own instincts. SHE thinks it's sketchy, so it's sketchy. That's it.
I said in my post that I thought she could and should get answers to her questions. I didn't think it was immediately elevated to the "You are the parent - keep her home!" level that some posters were proposing. I suggested that she get answers and then decide whether or not to keep her home.
But the point is that she has TRIED to get answers and she's being flat out ignored. When you say, not for the first time, "Hey, what day will you be home? I need to know." and the person IGNORES you, that is your answer.
I didn't feel like her SIL was ignoring her to be sketchy, but that she didn't actually know what her plans were so she didn't answer. I suggested the OP make her feelings VERY clear - tell her SIL that she needs answers and she's freaked out by the text from her XH. If she felt uncomfortable then, keep her DD home. I often think "How could this person not KNOW how I'd feel? How could they not KNOW I'd be freaked out by this?" And the truth is, other people just can't read our minds. She needs to tell her SIL how she's feeling, get the answers she needs, and then make a decision. Which I think we are all agreeing with.
But the point is that she has TRIED to get answers and she's being flat out ignored. When you say, not for the first time, "Hey, what day will you be home? I need to know." and the person IGNORES you, that is your answer.
I didn't feel like her SIL was ignoring her to be sketchy, but that she didn't actually know what her plans were so she didn't answer. I suggested the OP make her feelings VERY clear - tell her SIL that she needs answers and she's freaked out by the text from her XH. If she felt uncomfortable then, keep her DD home. I often think "How could this person not KNOW how I'd feel? How could they not KNOW I'd be freaked out by this?" And the truth is, other people just can't read our minds. She needs to tell her SIL how she's feeling, get the answers she needs, and then make a decision. Which I think we are all agreeing with.
Okay, now I am arguing with you.
Curtains said she asked about the return date, then texted her SIL about the return date and has not received a response. My husband is awesome, I get along great with my SIL, and I trust her judgment. And if she proposed a long-distance trip with my child/ren and I said "when are you coming back" and she was all "I dunno, like sometime within this 72 hour chunk of time" and then flat out didn't answer follow up questions I would be sketched OUT.
And I'd need no other explanation beyond "I'm her mother and I want to know when she will be returned to me" for my inquiry, and no other rationale for why I would be sketched out.
I didn't feel like her SIL was ignoring her to be sketchy, but that she didn't actually know what her plans were so she didn't answer. I suggested the OP make her feelings VERY clear - tell her SIL that she needs answers and she's freaked out by the text from her XH. If she felt uncomfortable then, keep her DD home. I often think "How could this person not KNOW how I'd feel? How could they not KNOW I'd be freaked out by this?" And the truth is, other people just can't read our minds. She needs to tell her SIL how she's feeling, get the answers she needs, and then make a decision. Which I think we are all agreeing with.
Okay, now I am arguing with you.
Curtains said she asked about the return date, then texted her SIL about the return date and has not received a response. My husband is awesome, I get along great with my SIL, and I trust her judgment. And if she proposed a long-distance trip with my child/ren and I said "when are you coming back" and she was all "I dunno, like sometime within the 72 hour chunk of time" and then flat out didn't answer follow up questions I would be sketched OUT.
And I'd need no other explanation beyond "I'm her mother and I want to know when she will be returned to me" for my inquiry, and no other rationale for why I would be sketched out.
I respect that you'd be sketched out about it, and that the OP would be too. I just stated that I would not be immediately sketched out about it (given the details I had, maybe I would in real life). I don't think you're arguing with me on what she should do next, which is talk to her SIL and get answers. Everyone seems to be agreeing on the action she should take.
Curtains said she asked about the return date, then texted her SIL about the return date and has not received a response. My husband is awesome, I get along great with my SIL, and I trust her judgment. And if she proposed a long-distance trip with my child/ren and I said "when are you coming back" and she was all "I dunno, like sometime within the 72 hour chunk of time" and then flat out didn't answer follow up questions I would be sketched OUT.
And I'd need no other explanation beyond "I'm her mother and I want to know when she will be returned to me" for my inquiry, and no other rationale for why I would be sketched out.
I respect that you'd be sketched out about it, and that the OP would be too. I just stated that I would not be immediately sketched out about it (given the details I had, maybe I would in real life). I don't think you're arguing with me on what she should do next, which is talk to her SIL and get answers. Everyone seems to be agreeing on the action she should take.
I am not.
I'm extra pissy at the SIL because she has kids. I go out of my WAY to make sure if other people's kids are with me, they (the parents and kids) feel comfortable. Because as a parent (and sentient human being) I know that when someone is entrusting the care of their child/dog/cat/favorite Ming vase to you, you should show respect for that trust.
Also, I'm salty here on curtains's behalf, because I do remember her shenanigans from a year ago and, as EmilieMadison said, it appears curtains has a history that is causing her to doubt herself and her instincts. And she should NOT. She's thoughtful and trying her best. Her instincts are plenty good enough.
I respect that you'd be sketched out about it, and that the OP would be too. I just stated that I would not be immediately sketched out about it (given the details I had, maybe I would in real life). I don't think you're arguing with me on what she should do next, which is talk to her SIL and get answers. Everyone seems to be agreeing on the action she should take.
I am not.
I'm extra pissy at the SIL because she has kids. I go out of my WAY to make sure if other people's kids are with me, they (the parents and kids) feel comfortable. Because as a parent (and sentient human being) I know that when someone is entrusting the care of their child/dog/cat/favorite Ming vase to you, you should show respect for that trust.
Also, I'm salty here on curtains's behalf, because I do remember her shenanigans from a year ago and, as EmilieMadison said, it appears curtains has a history that is causing her to doubt herself and her instincts. And she should NOT. She's thoughtful and trying her best. Her instincts are plenty good enough.
I totally agree with you on the bolded statement - I am the same way. But maybe her SIL isn't. That's all I was suggesting. I don't know her history, so my take on the situation is based just on what she posted. I'm also not questioning curtains instincts. She didn't seem to know what her gut was telling her. On the one hand she thought it seemed sketchy, on the other she trusts her SIL and doesn't think she'd be in contact with her XH. It's a tough position to be in as a parent. I certainly hope to never be in one with my children and my sympathies are with curtains.
I r. espect that you'd be sketched out about it, and that the OP would be too. I just stated that I would not be immediately sketched out about it (given the details I had, maybe I would in real life). I don't think you're arguing with me on what she should do next, which is talk to her SIL and get answers. Everyone seems to be agreeing on the action she should take.
I am not.
I'm extra pissy at the SIL because she has kids. I go out of my WAY to make sure if other people's kids are with me, they (the parents and kids) feel comfortable. Because as a parent (and sentient human being) I know that when someone is entrusting the care of their child/dog/cat/favorite Ming vase to you, you should show respect for that trust.
Also, I'm salty here on curtains's behalf, because I do remember her shenanigans from a year ago and, as EmilieMadison said, it appears curtains has a history that is causing her to doubt herself and her instincts. And she should NOT. She's thoughtful and trying her best. Her instincts are plenty good enough.
Thanks cville. I am getting there, thanks to you and this place. So many incredible bitches. <3