would love some ML advice

[curtains]

My dd has chosen to stop seeing her dad for some time now. There was some questionable stuff happening and her therapist told me in no uncertain terms to allow my dd to make that decision. And I did.

Fast forward to now. I have always held his family in high regard. They have loved my dd since birth and respected her decision regarding her dad. Because of this I agreed for my xsil to take my dd to Florida this coming week to spend time with her family ( we are in Philly area so it is not close)

These are the plans as told to me:
Tomorrow they will leave. They dont know when but I should (and did) take pto to be available to have my dd ready to go when they are.
They will return back sometime next weekend. As of now it could be any day between Fri and Mon. They don't want to commit.

To add to my discomfort my xh texted me today that he hopes dd has a "magical" time seeing his family.

I didn't tell him about the trip but I guess his family did. Which is fine I guess but honestly the whole thing is unnerving.

Thoughts?

[Captain Serious]

I would be really unnerved, too. Do you feel she would be safe if she saw her dad? Because I think you either have to supervise this trip yourself or assume there is at least a chance his family will try to stage a meet-up between them.

[notoriousmeg]

How old is your daughter? Is she looking forward to the trip? I agree win pp that you can probably assume they will try to get her to connect with your. X

[EmilieMadison]

I would be uncomfortable with someone taking my child somewhere without a clear return date. And yes, I'd be unnerved that her dad texted you. Do you normally text with each other? Doesn't sound like this is typical behaviour, and I'd wonder why he was texting me that he knew about the trip.

[curtains]

I can't take time off this late. They leave tomorrow. I was hoping this would be a nice chance for my dd to stay in touch with everyone on my xh side of the family. But I am getting concerned.

[Captain Serious]

Jul 31, 2014 21:56:12 GMT -5 EmilieMadison said:

I would be uncomfortable with someone taking my child somewhere without a clear return date. And yes, I'd be unnerved that her dad texted you. Do you normally text with each other? Doesn't sound like this is typical behaviour, and I'd wonder why he was texting me that he knew about the trip.

Exactly.  I think he's sending you a sinister message that he knows about the trip.  I'd guess that he thinks that you are the one keeping your daughter from seeing him, and he thinks that since she'll be with her family, all signs a-go for him to have a reunion with her in spite of *your* wishes (even though we really know it's her wish).  It just wreaks to me that he's trying to rub your nose in the fact that he's likely to see her anyway.

[curtains]

Jul 31, 2014 21:56:12 GMT -5 EmilieMadison said:

I would be uncomfortable with someone taking my child somewhere without a clear return date. And yes, I'd be unnerved that her dad texted you. Do you normally text with each other? Doesn't sound like this is typical behaviour, and I'd wonder why he was texting me that he knew about the trip.

He texts me once every few months. We are not in contact under normal circumstances.

[katfco]

Do they know she's chosen not to see her dad? I'd be worried they'd pressure her into making her see him.

And yeah, the whole loose date would bother me to no end.

[Captain Serious]

Jul 31, 2014 21:57:15 GMT -5 curtains said:

I can't take time off this late. They leave tomorrow. I was hoping this would be a nice chance for my dd to stay in touch with everyone on my xh side of the family. But I am getting concerned.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't think you should have to and I wasn't suggesting you take off and join them.  I was more thinking that if you really don't think this is in her best interest, you may want to trust your gut and cancel her plans to join them.  Of course, you have to weigh disappointing her against any safety concerns you have (which you haven't really said there are any, exactly).

One thing I wouldn't worry about at all is offending his family at this point, because if they really are planning a reunion without telling you, that's pretty shitty and underhanded of them.  Especially if they know why you are supporting her decision not to see him.

[speckledfrog]

Sounds like they are surprising her with a trip to Disney. I would absolutely push for a firm return time though.

[EmilieMadison]

I understand that you can't take time off right now on short notice ,but where would your DD be normally if she wasn't going on the trip? I would trust your gut here. I'd be very nervous about this. How much time does your DD spend with exSIL? Something about this just seems...off.

[Deleted]

I don't recall how old she is but I think maybe you need to trust your gut and I'd tell her what is making you so uncomfortable and why you've cancelled at the last minute.

[Captain Serious]

Jul 31, 2014 22:03:48 GMT -5 speckledfrog said:

Sounds like they are surprising her with a trip to Disney. I would absolutely push for a firm return time though.

I have to admit, this thought occurred to me, too.

[fivechickens]

No way would I be comfortable with this. She will be back sometime from Friday or Monday? They don't want to commit? Its YOUR fucking daughter they damn well better commit. Can you make arrangements so she gets back on Friday? Plane? Or are you not comfortable with that?

[nerdicorn]

What are the plans for Florida? Will your DD have a means to contact you (like her own cell phone) and your x's family knows you will expect a call every night and she is to be in possession of the phone at all times? Do you have the means to go get her or get her home if something goes bad? Does his family know it is her decision to not see her father and in no uncertain terms they are not to try to put them in any sort of contact?

[EmilieMadison]

Jul 31, 2014 22:05:47 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

Jul 31, 2014 22:03:48 GMT -5 speckledfrog said:

Sounds like they are surprising her with a trip to Disney. I would absolutely push for a firm return time though.

I have to admit, this thought occurred to me, too.

I dont understand why they wouldn't tell YOU if there was a surprise trip to Disney for your DD. As the parent, you absolutely need to know where she will be at all times. You are entitled to that and should demand that. I think you need to call your exSIL and be very clear about needing to know all the details and that your exH is not allowed to be part of this trip.

Though honestly, I dont think I would let her go at all. That's just me. 

[suzyp]

Do you have a relationship with his family that you can ask (and mention the text)? I'm hoping that it's innocent and it's just that he knows they are taking her to Disney.

I don't have a relationship with my father and I have a viseral reaction to the idea that they are going to surprise your daughter with him.

How old is DD? Is she at an age where you would be comfortable to tell you that you got a text from her Dad telling her to have a good time and she what she says? I'm so sorry you and your DD have to deal with this.

[Captain Serious]

Do you know where in Florida they are going? Do you have any idea of their itinerary, even if times/days may change because they want to play it loosey-goosey? Are they flying at any part of this trip or is it a total road trip? How old is she? Could she fly home as an unaccompanied minor if you deem that necessary, and would you be comfortable in her ability to do so? Have you had any reason to doubt letting her go with them up until now? Has she spent any extended time with them alone in the past?

All these questions would play a part in determining if I'd let her go or change my mind at this juncture.

[curtains]

Jul 31, 2014 22:02:19 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

Jul 31, 2014 21:57:15 GMT -5 curtains said:

I can't take time off this late. They leave tomorrow. I was hoping this would be a nice chance for my dd to stay in touch with everyone on my xh side of the family. But I am getting concerned.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't think you should have to and I wasn't suggesting you take off and join them.  I was more thinking that if you really don't think this is in her best interest, you may want to trust your gut and cancel her plans to join them.  Of course, you have to weigh disappointing her against any safety concerns you have (which you haven't really said there are any, exactly).

One thing I wouldn't worry about at all is offending his family at this point, because if they really are planning a reunion without telling you, that's pretty shitty and underhanded of them.  Especially if they know why you are supporting her decision not to see him.

Thank you. (Heart)

So here is where I am stuck. This happened once before. At my dd request last year I called my xfil and told him that my dd missed him and wanted to see him. He seemed happy and appeared to understand her issue with seeing her dad.
I was happy she would have the opportunity to see him sans dad. So I bought a plane ticket.
Long story short her dad found out and called me raging a d threatening about everything. I ended up canceling the trip. It wasn't worth the drama.

My xils and dd were sad about it so I booked another trip later in the year and all was fine. No crazy messages from my xh and full communication from all sides. I felt good about it all.

That is why I thought this would be ok. But this is only the second trip and it's already going haywire.

[curtains]

She has a cell phone

She is going to DelRay Beach

No trip to Disney. I can 100% guarantee that

[Captain Serious]

Jul 31, 2014 22:14:10 GMT -5 curtains said:

Jul 31, 2014 22:02:19 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

Thank you. (Heart)

So here is where I am stuck. This happened once before. At my dd request last year I called my xfil and told him that my dd missed him and wanted to see him. He seemed happy and appeared to understand her issue with seeing her dad.
I was happy she would have the opportunity to see him sans dad. So I bought a plane ticket.
Long story short her dad found out and called me raging a d threatening about everything. I ended up canceling the trip. It wasn't worth the drama.

My xils and dd were sad about it so I booked another trip later in the year and all was fine. No crazy messages from my xh and full communication from all sides. I felt good about it all.

That is why I thought this would be ok. But this is only the second trip and it's already going haywire.

Okay, with this information, it's clear that at least someone, perhaps your parents-in-law are sharing this news with your exhusband.  The fact that he was enraged last time is not a good sign.  He could just be mad that they are taking her and she is not seeing him.  The "magical" reference could just be him assuming that if anyone is going to Florida with kids, they must be going to Disney.  Or it could be more sinister.

Do you think your exSIL would tell you the truth if you asked her?

Could it be that his family thought it was okay to share since the last trip worked out okay and so much time has passed without incident?

Is he anywhere in/near Florida, so that it would be possible for him to "crash" without being invited along?

[miniroller]

Jul 31, 2014 22:14:35 GMT -5 tators said:

I think he is just being sarcastic. Like he knows she is seeing them but not him and is pissed.

And I also felt this, but absolutely understand your definite concern.
However, I would not ever recommend you moving forward until every single one of your doubts is 110% completely resolved.

[EmilieMadison]

So do you know for sure where she will be the whole time? The actual hotel/house/etc?

[Captain Serious]

Jul 31, 2014 22:23:53 GMT -5 tators said:

So is he in that area? I would talk to them. Tell them your panicking and make them clear everything up.

I agree with this.  I'd ask them flat-out if they know where he will be during the trip (like will he be in Philly or Florida).

[cville]

No fucking way would I send my kid off to stay with family she doesn't know well with so little knowledge of what's going on. No way. You want to have a relationship with her, you have to get through me. For her safety and security and confidence. That means I know EXACTLY where you're going to be, when, with a general itinerary and an exact planned-to-the-minute return date. And an exit strategy if she wants to leave or the ex shows up. Those are reasonable terms.

[mrsjuleshs]

Dd has a horrible relationship with her father sadly and in this case, I would not be cool without getting the whole itinerary. If her wish is to not see him, I would want to make sure that is not even in anyone's mind. Once they get to a certain age I don't believe in enforcing visitation if the other parent had clearly made it out to be that they don't want a continual relationship. Take me to court for contempt of an order but my child's safety and well being even emotionally come first.

[curtains]

She is 13

They know she is not to see him.

He lives in pa

I don't know their itinerary. But it sounds like a fun family get together at the beach where my xfil lives.

I really had absolutely no concerns until today

[kristinschmistin]

Jul 31, 2014 22:27:30 GMT -5 cville said:

No fucking way would I send my kid off to stay with family she doesn't know well with so little knowledge of what's going on. No way. You want to have a relationship with her, you have to get through me. For her safety and security and confidence. That means I know EXACTLY where you're going to be, when, with a general itinerary and an exact planned-to-the-minute return date. And an exit strategy if she wants to leave or the ex shows up. Those are reasonable terms.

I have to agree with this. They should be giving you very detailed plans, dates, times, emergency contact numbers, etc. Even in the best situations, you should have this info whenever your kid is traveling without you.

They should respect that and it's kind of weird they aren't giving you an exact return date. Honestly I would book the return ticket for her and say "her flight leaves to fly back home at xyz time on Friday afternoon, she needs to be at the airport by this time for check in. Thanks!"

[cville]

Then you get to have those concerns addressed. There's nothing mystical about Friday, August 1st. If they don't respond to your satisfaction tomorrow, she leaves on Saturday. 13 is old enough to make that decision not to see her father, and young enough for you to enforce it in whatever way you see fit.

I would not be comfortable knowing that someone is telling ex about the plans and you not knowing who, why, or when. And that open ended return date is nonsense.

[sparkythelawyer]

In order to allow my child to go, I would need to know where they were staying each night.

They would need to remind me that they understand that she is not to see her father.

I would need a definitive start and return date and means of transportation.

They're being sketchily vague. I don't know why you keep tolerating bullshit out of these people.

ETA:  I would need everything Cville said. Get all of that or she stays right where she is.