Post by orangeblossom on Oct 2, 2014 8:21:55 GMT -5
You know, I am really tired of people saying OP learned her lesson about re getting a professional sitter. How many people on here have had people do things for them while they're away, be it collecting and depositing mail, pet sitting, watering plants, etc.
It's not that unusual, and hell, some of those things Tweens and younger do. She did what a lot of people do, some, even on this board, I am sure of it.
Yes, having someone bonded as so professional sitter could have prevented this, but you should be able to trust a 20yo to do as told and what they're getting paid for. She was 20, not some kid in high school, and would expect better from someone that age. Not that 20 is this great age of maturity, but certainly by this age, should know better, IMO.
Unless she's had previous issues with this sitter that put into question how responsible she was, then "learning her lesson", is a bit much IMO.
I'd only ask for reimbursement if there where things I couldn't afford to replace or it would cause a hardship to do so. I'd just want to move on from this.
I would not ask for any reimbursement beyond not cashing the check if I were the homeowner. But I would send a check for a few hundred dollars if I were this girl's mother. Everything about this situation is awful. It would be nice if all the responsible adults in the story tried to do the right thing.
Other random thoughts about this:
I am appalled the the police told the OP they doubted the victim's credibility in the middle of a pending investigation.
I find the notion that one should only use "professional" dog walkers and house sitters pretty ridiculous. As far as I know, there are no formal education or licensing requirements for either job, so I am not sure what would make someone a professional. I am sure many communities don't even have a bonded and insured dog walking company. Using a neighborhood kid or the sweet retired lady down the street as a dog walker hardly seems like a "you asked for it/you should know better" situation.
I would cut my losses all around. I am really horrified at the idea of questioning the credibility of a rape victim, and asking for reimbursement. People make mistakes (eg, throwing the party) but ffs. What if it was you?
Well, that's my point. If I threw a party that cost a family friend hundreds if not thousands in damages ($700 is pretty inexpensive for a mattress) I would want to make restitution.
I would have a hard time asking for money too, especially from her mom. The girl is 20, so it's not really her mom's responsibility. I'd ask to get the check back though. I wouldn't trust her indefinitely not to cash it.
Also, maybe I'm alone in this but unless there was damage to the mattress I would probably keep it. Were there stains or something like that on it? Where have you been sleeping since you got back? If there was no visible damage I'd probably just get a really good mattress cover, pad, and sheets.
It sounds like we're only talking around $1000 worth of damages, at most, so I probably would NOT go through insurance if you have a deductible. It's probably not going to save you much, and then you have a claim on your record and potentially affecting future insurance rates. There are plenty of decent guest mattresses you can get for much less than $700. If you can't afford to replace a $700 mattress right now, maybe get a $250 one and replace it later when you have the funds available.
I am sorry you are dealing with this during an already rough time in your life. I can understand being stressed about money with an upcoming separation. I think it's good you are going to take some time to think about it. I'd advise you to really think about what (if anything) you can afford after you remove any irrational panicky feelings (and I say that because I can relate - I feel panicky about money right now too while I'm working a temp job, and want to hang onto every penny in case things don't turn around soon, but realistically I COULD pay for an emergency, or put things on credit, if I really needed to... I just don't like the idea because money = security and I want that. So I mean this with no judgement!!!).
I think since the mom offered to pay for things, you can take her up on that but would urge you to be reasonable about that request. Maybe even say "I did have to do carpet cleaning and replace some things, whatever you can contribute would be appreciated" so you're not handing her an itemized list (which may come across as insensitive). As someone else mentioned, I think if I was the mom I'd want to pay for some stuff too (it would be the "right" thing to do), especially if you were a friend.
Post by sparkythelawyer on Oct 2, 2014 9:28:58 GMT -5
First, make sure you contact the police and confirm they are ok with you getting rid of all of the things you are mentioning here, and that they have concluded their investigation before getting anything professionally cleaned.
All too often women go to the police after an assault only to have the cops not believe them. How would a person barely conscious and drunk/drugged be able to accurately solve all of the "inconsistencies?" I hope they are treating her allegations seriously, and not just writing her off as some drunk girl.
I would go through my renter's insurance for any damages I had, but I'd let sitter know that she will be responsible for my deductible on the claim. I probably would not go after her for more than that.
Take a week or two, take a breath, and see where you stand then. I'm so sorry this happened to everyone involved.
Dirty sheets and towels and wanting to replace a mattress are not damages.... These are all things that can be washed, unless I'm missing something. You want to replace them because what happened, but I don't think even a company would be liable for anything but a cleaning. Unless I missed something actually being damaged..
I think since the mom offered to pay for things, you can take her up on that but would urge you to be reasonable about that request. Maybe even say "I did have to do carpet cleaning and replace some things, whatever you can contribute would be appreciated" so you're not handing her an itemized list (which may come across as insensitive). As someone else mentioned, I think if I was the mom I'd want to pay for some stuff too (it would be the "right" thing to do), especially if you were a friend.
This is where I fall w/ the reimbursement, especially the bolded. If I did take her up on it, I would be a little vague. Or at most just give a round number of "I had to spend about $300 to have everything cleaned and replaced. If you'd like to help towards that, I would appreciate it".
You know, what has me pissed is that cops are insinuating ANYTHING to you about her story being questionable and her not being a victim. I don't care that it happened on your house (I mean I do, for you) they shouldn't tell you that. I'd give the list to the mom because she reiterated it, but any thoughts you have about her being a liar because the cops think so should leave your head. it makes me sick to read.
I wish i could like this a million times. It is fucking sick--and incredibly detrimental to women in general--to question the truth of her story. For every woman that might make up the story, there are quite a few more that never even come forward with their own rapes. Fuck those officers every which way.
I would not ask for any reimbursement beyond not cashing the check if I were the homeowner. But I would send a check for a few hundred dollars if I were this girl's mother. Everything about this situation is awful. It would be nice if all the responsible adults in the story tried to do the right thing.
Other random thoughts about this:
I am appalled the the police told the OP they doubted the victim's credibility in the middle of a pending investigation.
I find the notion that one should only use "professional" dog walkers and house sitters pretty ridiculous. As far as I know, there are no formal education or licensing requirements for either job, so I am not sure what would make someone a professional. I am sure many communities don't even have a bonded and insured dog walking company. Using a neighborhood kid or the sweet retired lady down the street as a dog walker hardly seems like a "you asked for it/you should know better" situation.
I believe professional pet sitters are insured and bonded. I know that most of the cars roaming around advertise on their cars that they are. That would make them professional, because they are putting their own $$ on the line for their business.
I have used friends as pet sitters myself, but I have never used someone who did not have their own home such that if they wanted to throw a party, they could. However, these days we kennel our animals at their vet, where they get spoiled rotten. I need to drop them off this morning.
As an aside, the OP mentioned she is in an apartment. My renters insurance had a $500 deductible, not $1000. And as she is in an apartment, if the carpet was damaged, the complex/owner may very well charge the OP for replacing the entire carpet.
OP....if there is a management office where you live, have you contacted them, or any neighbors? You might get info from them. At least with the neighbors, you might get some additional (unbiased) idea what went on in your home.
I find the notion that one should only use "professional" dog walkers and house sitters pretty ridiculous. As far as I know, there are no formal education or licensing requirements for either job, so I am not sure what would make someone a professional. I am sure many communities don't even have a bonded and insured dog walking company. Using a neighborhood kid or the sweet retired lady down the street as a dog walker hardly seems like a "you asked for it/you should know better" situation.
Aside from being bonded and insured (so things like this are covered by their insurance and/or bond), professionals have experience with things like medication and various special needs. The reason I've hired professional pet sitters is because I had a cat who was on subcutaneous fluids daily, which a teenager is not going to have experience with, most likely, nor would I want to teach a teenager to do that and trust it would be done. Additionally, pet sitters have references. They also do this full time (or at least have a schedule that allows them to be at your house as needed), which means if you need them to come at a specific time, they are able to do that, rather than just after school or after work, whenever they get to it.
One of my cats is currently on a daily medication, so basically I need to make sure someone is there, reliably, every morning.
OP, my house was broken into once, so I understand how violated you feel. At least one, and likely two (considering the missing items) crimes occurred at your residence. It feels... very upsetting. I empathize.
Post by bobotron3000 on Oct 2, 2014 11:10:48 GMT -5
OP I'm really sorry you are going through all this. I think you are wise to take a step back for a couple weeks, especially with everything else you are going through. But I think you should tell the mom that you are going to take some time to process everything and you'll contact her in a couple weeks to see how she can contribute. That way she won't be surprised when you contact her again and/or think it was forgotten. I agree with other posters that giving her a summary of what you've spent and asking her to chip in would be a good middle ground. Take care of yourself.
After reading all these responses, I would just mention to the mom that it's going to be over $1500 / whatever number, but I want to err on the side of not blaming the victim so I'll try to sort it out with insurance. I'd just leave it at that, maybe the parents will write a check for some amount, maybe not. But at least Id put that 'not blaming the victim' idea in their heads.
My $1500 number would include the mattress/bedding, a full professional cleaning of the apt once the cops give the okay, spot carpet cleaning (or full carpet cleaning since I don't know anyone who does spot cleaning) , replacement of anything incl meds that is no longer in your possession.
On a tangent, I feel very sure she was exploited, why else would she be sick? Her plan was to have a party and clean up before you got back.
Post by tacosforlife on Oct 2, 2014 11:23:29 GMT -5
I would ask for reimbursement for everything unless any of the damage is directly linked to the rape.
It sounds like this damage would have occurred even if no assault had taken place. I do not blame the young woman for the rape, but I would blame her for all the damage. That something bad happened to her does not negate her culpability in the material damage sustained by the OP.
Yes, using this young woman was a risk the OP took. And being sued for recovery of damage she caused is a risk the young woman took when inviting people over after saying she wouldn't.
It sounds like this damage would have occurred even if no assault had taken place. I do not blame the young woman for the rape, but I would blame her for all the damage. That something bad happened to her does not negate her culpability in the material damage sustained by the OP.
This is where I was coming from last night, and I feel the same way today. I still think it's fine to ask for reimbursement for party-specific damages that would have occurred even if no assault had taken place.
You know, I am really tired of people saying OP learned her lesson about re getting a professional sitter. How many people on here have had people do things for them while they're away, be it collecting and depositing mail, pet sitting, watering plants, etc.
It's not that unusual, and hell, some of those things Tweens and younger do. She did what a lot of people do, some, even on this board, I am sure of it.
Yes, having someone bonded as so professional sitter could have prevented this, but you should be able to trust a 20yo to do as told and what they're getting paid for. She was 20, not some kid in high school, and would expect better from someone that age. Not that 20 is this great age of maturity, but certainly by this age, should know better, IMO.
Unless she's had previous issues with this sitter that put into question how responsible she was, then "learning her lesson", is a bit much IMO.
Thank you for saying this.
It wasn't like I just hired a 20 year-old off of Craigslist. This was a family friend whose mother I met through work. She is a junior in college, makes good grades, has a clean driving record and holds a part-time job. We interviewed her prior to hiring her and she has dog sat for us for an entire year without problems. I trusted her more than I would trust a stranger employed by a company. People are calling her a teenager... she's getting ready to be 21. I would expect something like this from a high school kid.
The only reason we even have someone come stay here is because we have had 2 bad boarding experiences in the past. Both of those places, one of which was the vet, were insured and licensed.
I get the discussion about everything but I really don't feel like I "learned my lesson".
I would ask for reimbursement for everything unless any of the damage is directly linked to the rape.
It sounds like this damage would have occurred even if no assault had taken place. I do not blame the young woman for the rape, but I would blame her for all the damage. That something bad happened to her does not negate her culpability in the material damage sustained by the OP.
I agree with you, except it sounds like the majority of money she's on the hook for is related to the rape (new bedding/mattress). Cleaning for an apartment shouldn't run more than a couple hundred dollars unless of the "move out" variety, which isn't necessary after a party. The last couple of times I've had to pay for carpet cleaning in a rental apartment it was $100-150. I know depending on area it could cost more than that, but party related damage should be nowhere near the $1000+ figure that has been tossed around in this post.
Maybe that's the fair, inoffensive compromise here - ask the dog sitter/mom to pay for anything related to having a party, and let anything rape related go (or allow mom to chip in extra if she offers/asks, but don't request it). It really, really sucks that the OP should be out money for this whole fiasco, but I just don't think I could in good conscience ask for more if it was me.
I guess I'll also add that I don't think the OP deserves blame for hiring this dog sitter anymore than the dog sitter deserves blame for being raped. The crappy reality of the situation is that a crime was committed and the only person to blame is the perpetrator. Sure, the OP could have hired a professional and the dog sitter shouldn't have had a party, but both of those things could have turned out just fine and probably would have 99% of the time. It really sucks that someone is stuck with the bill for being victimized (since I'd say both the OP and the dog sitter are victims, though of different crimes).
Hmm. If the rapist ends up being prosecuted, I wonder if he could be held responsible?