Post by Scout'sHonor on Oct 2, 2014 10:04:41 GMT -5
Yes, he had contact, but he was not symptomatic until 4 days after landing here. The airports in West Africa are taking temps of anyone leaving and looking for signs. I'm sure a few slip through, but at the time this guy came over, he did not believe he was infected. Obviously I agree that the hospital in TX should have done better. But saying this guy skipped across the pond knowing he was sick just to get treatment here is ridiculous.
Right. I think when it comes down to it, dude just didn't believe he had Ebola, either before he got to the hospital or after he left.
Also, American patients who are familiar with hospital intake often don't give their doctors or the nurses accurate information, either because they don't think about it or didn't think it was important, or they were fearful or embarrassed for a variety of reasons.
So all in all, I can actually find very little to blame this man for.
I had an annual the other day. The NP could hardly answer my questions or accurately process my answers. She spent the bulk of the time the computer typing up stuff, looking in my file, etc. At one point she said "sorry I wish I had time to chat with you but I can't chat and be on the computer at the same time. And we have to get people in an out quickly. Now tell me again how old your newborn is? A few weeks?"
Um.
No.
I can totally see how someone with Ebola slips through the "greatest health care system in the world."
United Airlines has released the patient/passenger's name and flight details. This is kind of a dick move IMO. United Airlines scrambles to alert HUNDREDS of passengers who came in contract with Ebola patient as it is revealed he entered U.S. at Washington Dulles before flying to Dallas
Thomas Eric Duncan flew from Liberia to Brussels, then boarded United Airlines Flight 951 to Washington Dulles International Airport From Dulles, he flew on United Flight 822 to Dallas/Fort Worth U.S. officials had refused to release Duncan's flight details, but United Airlines chose to make his itinerary public Health officials claim there is no risk to Duncan's fellow passengers
Thomas Eric Duncan, a Liberian national, arrived in the U.S. at Washington Dulles International Airport on United Flight 951 on September 20, the airline revealed today.
He then boarded United Flight 822 to Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.
U.S. officials had previously refused to provide details of his itinerary, claiming none of his fellow passengers were at risk because he was not showing symptoms at that time.
Post by orangeblossom on Oct 2, 2014 10:41:55 GMT -5
The board crapped out on me when I was typing that I am very annoyed that this name was released AND a picture. Unless CDC and/or the Health Department released it, it was uncalled for.
Would it have come out eventually, yes. People are nosy and people will talk. Oh you know, Timmy goes to school with one of the kids quarantined or someone knows an adult who was questioned, etc, but I am very annoyed at this.
United Airlines has released the patient/passenger's name and flight details. This is kind of a dick move IMO. United Airlines scrambles to alert HUNDREDS of passengers who came in contract with Ebola patient as it is revealed he entered U.S. at Washington Dulles before flying to Dallas
Thomas Eric Duncan flew from Liberia to Brussels, then boarded United Airlines Flight 951 to Washington Dulles International Airport From Dulles, he flew on United Flight 822 to Dallas/Fort Worth U.S. officials had refused to release Duncan's flight details, but United Airlines chose to make his itinerary public Health officials claim there is no risk to Duncan's fellow passengers
Thomas Eric Duncan, a Liberian national, arrived in the U.S. at Washington Dulles International Airport on United Flight 951 on September 20, the airline revealed today.
He then boarded United Flight 822 to Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.
U.S. officials had previously refused to provide details of his itinerary, claiming none of his fellow passengers were at risk because he was not showing symptoms at that time.
The board crapped out on me when I was typing that I am very annoyed that this name was released AND a picture. Unless CDC and/or the Health Department released it, it was uncalled for.
Would it have come out eventually, yes. People are nosy and people will talk. Oh you know, Timmy goes to school with one of the kids quarantined or someone knows an adult who was questioned, etc, but I am very annoyed at this.
Fuck this guy!!! He CARRIED a dying Ebola victim and then almost immediately hopped on a plane for the US. What a piece of shit, fuck him. You come in close contact with people who are dying of Ebola, you stay home, it's not time for a family reunion in Texas. Asshole.
Fuck this guy!!! He CARRIED a dying Ebola victim and then almost immediately hopped on a plane for the US. What a piece of shit, fuck him. You come in close contact with people who are dying of Ebola, you stay home, it's not time for a family reunion in Texas. Asshole.
You know what I find frustrating? He didn't mention that he helped carry the two people who had Ebola to the hospital. Wouldn't any normal person be freaking out that two people he was in close contact died?? That would be the first thing i would say - hey! I think you should know I came from Africa and two of my friends just died. And I helped carry them to the hospital. Just a small tidbit of info for you guys.
Absolutely there was a breakdown in information but I feel like some responsibility should also lie with the patient who didn't disclose extremely important information.
ETA - I skimmed through some of the comments and realize my point was made already :/
Fuck this guy!!! He CARRIED a dying Ebola victim and then almost immediately hopped on a plane for the US. What a piece of shit, fuck him. You come in close contact with people who are dying of Ebola, you stay home, it's not time for a family reunion in Texas. Asshole.
sigh...
Pixy we all know damn good and well Alyssa ain't never been shit.
Yes, he had contact, but he was not symptomatic until 4 days after landing here. The airports in West Africa are taking temps of anyone leaving and looking for signs. I'm sure a few slip through, but at the time this guy came over, he did not believe he was infected. Obviously I agree that the hospital in TX should have done better. But saying this guy skipped across the pond knowing he was sick just to get treatment here is ridiculous.
Really? I don't think he was sick, but he knew he had been exposed. I don't blame him at all. He did exactly what I would do in that situation. I would get the fuck out of Liberia. I am not a good enough person to take one for the team and just stay there where I would most certainly die. I would do whatever it took to get myself somewhere that I thought I would have a chance of survival.
Is it possible there is some level of ..... dissociation (is that the word I'm looking for?) because the virus is so prevalent there? Ignorance about transmission could certainly play a part.
I realize this is nowhere near the same, but I knew a guy (African) who was sick and went to medical saying he thought he had malaria and couldn't understand the panic that ensued. He told me it's just considered the flu in Africa. (I can't speak to whether that's true or not, just repeating what he said.) But, he certainly wasn't worried about possibly having malaria
I think it's okay to have negative feelings about someone who is in a Ebola impacted region and in direct contact with Ebola patients/victims who flies here, gets sick, and hangs with kids and others, then is diagnosed with Ebola. He made some risky choices here. And I think of him the same way I think of anti vaxxers. When your choices put the public at risk, I don't have to feel positive feelings about your actions, no matter how well reasoned or justified your actions are.
I'm more mad at the hospital though.
And I'm not even mad at him. I just don't feel very positive about him.
Mostly I'm just mad because I have to fly across country on 4 different flights in a few days and I couldn't sleep last night thinking about it.
Is it possible there is some level of ..... dissociation (is that the word I'm looking for?) because the virus is so prevalent there? Ignorance about transmission could certainly play a part.
I realize this is nowhere near the same, but I knew a guy (African) who was sick and went to medical saying he thought he had malaria and couldn't understand the panic that ensued. He told me it's just considered the flu in Africa. (I can't speak to whether that's true or not, just repeating what he said.) But, he certainly wasn't worried about possibly having malaria
Ebola is not treated with the same casualness as malaria. First of all malaria is not transmitted from person to person. Ebola is. Malaria is a common and treatable diseases. Ebola is not. They're light years apart epidemiologically.
Is it possible there is some level of ..... dissociation (is that the word I'm looking for?) because the virus is so prevalent there? Ignorance about transmission could certainly play a part.
I realize this is nowhere near the same, but I knew a guy (African) who was sick and went to medical saying he thought he had malaria and couldn't understand the panic that ensued. He told me it's just considered the flu in Africa. (I can't speak to whether that's true or not, just repeating what he said.) But, he certainly wasn't worried about possibly having malaria
Ebola is not treated with the same casualness as malaria. First of all malaria is not transmitted from person to person. Ebola is. Malaria is a common and treatable diseases. Ebola is not. They're light years apart epidemiologically.
Yes, I am aware. My point was the dissociation about the seriousness of the virus. If you thought there was a chance you could die by carrying your landlord's kid - not your own son or daughter - to the hospital, would you? I think not.
They are now saying the family left the apt yesterday after they were told they are to stay inside b/c they are quarantined! Now they have a court ordered quarantine!
*shrug* I'm not mad at him. I'm not mad at the hospital. I shake my head at anyone who was told to stay quarantined breaking that order. I'm just not worried about this virus.
Measles, pertussis, chicken pox, any and all vaccine preventable diseases that people refuse to protect themselves against? Yeah, that makes me ragey. This Ebola Man doesn't.
Do we expect him to trust the government of the US more than he trusts his own government?
Perhaps not, but I certainly expect his relatives who live her and are presumably US Citizens, to follow the guidelines of the CDC in this instance and stay the fuck home.
One other thing - disclaimer: I am not all that familiar with Liberian or this man's particular culture so this may not be applicable. But in many cultures, there's a great respect and deference to authority (such as doctors). If this is the kind of culture he came from, he may have thought, well if the doctor says it's not ebola, who am I to question that? Or even if he still suspected ebola, he may not have been comfortable challenging the doctor or nurse.
It may sound crazy, but this exact type of culture is what has caused a number of terrible airplane crashes - the cockpit culture of deference to the captain (see Tenerife) - and it's something that the industry has worked very hard to change. Even educated, experienced pilots were afraid to challenge the captain even when their own life was in danger. That's how deeply it can be ingrained.
So I wouldn't be surprised if that could have also been a factor in his agreeing to go home even if he still thought he might have Ebola.
ETA: we really have no idea what he said to the doctor/nurse/etc. He may have told them everything and they ignored him. He may have just in passing said "yes I came from *cough cough* Liberia hey look at that bird over there" and tried to hide it. We really don't know.
Not trusting the government is also a reason supplied by anti vaxxers. They don't get a pass either when their actions put the public at risk.
But seriously, antivaxxers have a wealth of peer researched information at their fingertips along with certification processes, a mostly transparent government, checks and balances, in addition to their own educations. They choose to ignore all that in favor of their own opinion.
Meanwhile, the governments that have been dealing with Ebola outbreaks are corrupt nations with a generally speaking under educated population, many of them maintaining strong connections with their villages, cultural norms, etc. They live in nations where Europeans and Americans routinely use them for their own means and have had a history of lying to, undermining, and even dismissing them entirely as not worth their time.
I'm not saying it's perfectly acceptable to ignore the quarantine order from the CDC. I am merely saying that I understand why they might.
One other thing - disclaimer: I am not all that familiar with Liberian or this man's particular culture so this may not be applicable. But in many cultures, there's a great respect and deference to authority (such as doctors). If this is the kind of culture he came from, he may have thought, well if the doctor says it's not ebola, who am I to question that? Or even if he still suspected ebola, he may not have been comfortable challenging the doctor or nurse.
It may sound crazy, but this exact type of culture is what has caused a number of terrible airplane crashes - the cockpit culture of deference to the captain (see Tenerife) - and it's something that the industry has worked very hard to change. Even educated, experienced pilots were afraid to challenge the captain even when their own life was in danger. That's how deeply it can be ingrained.
So I wouldn't be surprised if that could have also been a factor in his agreeing to go home even if he still thought he might have Ebola.
ETA: we really have no idea what he said to the doctor/nurse/etc. He may have told them everything and they ignored him. He may have just in passing said "yes I came from *cough cough* Liberia hey look at that bird over there" and tried to hide it. We really don't know.
I believe there is also an inherent mistrust among many people in government officials so it might make sense that he would listen to the doctor but not necessarily the CDC.
There were reports of people breaking into the clinics to take the bodies of their loved ones for what they considered a proper burial, despite government officials telling them that the dead bodies were highly contagious. Some people even believed that the government was going to do strange things with the bodies.