Yes, I totally get that. I was molested for years and years as a child, but as a parent I wouldn't want my children talking about it and having to explain that hell to them.
I"m sorry. I must be misunderstanding you. You wouldn't want your young children to know about molestation... because you were molested?
I have spoken with them to exess about inappropriate touching but Have not spoken with them about anything sexual since they have not asked. It's a scary topic for me and I don't want to bring it up prematurely because of my insecurities.
I"m sorry. I must be misunderstanding you. You wouldn't want your young children to know about molestation... because you were molested?
I have spoken with them to exess about inappropriate touching but Have not spoken with them about anything sexual since they have not asked. It's a scary topic for me and I don't want to bring it up prematurely because of my insecurities.
I'm so sorry about what happened to you, but you can help prevent the same thing from happening to your kids by arming them with information. It your JOB to bring it up to them, to teach them about what sex is, when it's ok, when it's not, that they are the ones in charge of their bodies, how their bodies work etc. You have to teach them these things to protect them and to make sure they have correct information.
Post by spellingbea on Oct 23, 2014 6:56:35 GMT -5
I'm probably going to be completely inarticulate about this, but okay. I'm not even that pearl clutchy about the language, so much as the tone. I think the message is attention getting enough that if those girls had been dressed in regular kid clothes and delivered the one in five stats it would have been just as effective as being all "Hey look! We're sassy! We're going to say fuck a lot and talk about rape!" The tone just bugs.
I also think the people that aren't going to be pearl clutchy already get this, and the people it needs to reach are going to be turned off, so I wonder how effective it really is.
I was molested at a younger age than this, and I think it should be talked about, but I would just prefer a different delivery. I am also pretty certain that if I saw this at 5 years old it would have had zero impact on me reporting the abuse.
Bah. I haven't had coffee and I no talk good, lol. Flame away.
I think this video is powerful. It is going viral because little girls are repeatedly saying fuck. It is offensive because little girls are saying fuck. By power of association those statistics are offensive, not just "that is really sad."
As for little girls being used, I don't see this as exploitative. I see it as empowering. This isn't a child holding an " aboetion is murder" sign or a " stay out of my uterus one." That is a fight that they are too young to chooses their side on. This is a battle they are in. Whether they choose to be or not.
I don't like it and I swear like a sailor. They are too young to understand any of that. Someone is using them to promote a message. It doesn't matter that the message is good and important. Leave the kids out of it.
Okay, I see this perspective.
I admit that because I do swear like a sailor my first reaction was "fuck yeah!" Plus, of course, I see Booby's perspective, in that the medium ensures better delivery of the message.
I think this video is powerful. It is going viral because little girls are repeatedly saying fuck. It is offensive because little girls are saying fuck. By power of association those statistics are offensive not just "that is really sad."
As for little girls being used, I don't see this as exploitative. I see it as empowering. This isn't a child holding an " abortionis murder" sign or a " stay out of my uterus one." That is a fight that they are too young to chooses their side on. This is a battle they are in. Whether they choose to be or not.
little girls are getting paid less than men for the same work?
I hope this is moot issue by the time these girls not the workforce, but I don't have high expectations
Post by rupertpenny on Oct 23, 2014 8:28:16 GMT -5
I've had a weird day emotion-wise and I started sobbing uncontrollably when I watched this. I'm not even sure why. I'm just glad B is too young to know I was upset and still thinks my tears are the most hilarious thing she's ever seen.
You realize that children that young ARE raped, yes? Please read through the comments.Â
Yes, I totally get that. I was molested for years and years as a child, but as a parent I wouldn't want my children talking about it and having to explain that hell to them.
I'm sorry about your past
Do you teach your kids that their private parts are there private parts only?
Obviously you don't have to go in to detail about rape, but it seems like teaching kids the basics at a very young age is important. I remember having the talk about no touching private parts as far back as I have a memory of being a child.
I think teaching girls to be "feminists" can and should start at a young age. Girl power! You can absolutely explain things in a kid friendly way in regards to loving their body, not being afraid to be smart, not letting others touch you, etc. So I personally don't think these girls are too young to discuss any of the messages discussed in the video.
Post by spellingbea on Oct 23, 2014 8:51:51 GMT -5
I think most of us that don't like this commercial--and that's what it really is, since they're selling clothing for a profit--aren't objecting to frank discussions with children or encouraging feminism.
Innocent little girls who are being raised in a society that allows for 1 in 5 of them to be sexually assaulted. They don't need to think every male out there is going to rape them and I csn see people getting all gaspy about the f-bombs but hell yes they should be aware of what our culture is doing to girls like them. At what point is it "ok" for them to know this? 12? 15?
I don't know. Some of them don't look older than my daughter who is 7 and has no idea at all about sex, let alone sexual assault. I don't have answers. I was just sharing how that video made me feel. I would have loved it had it been young teenagers.
Not snarky - just curious. Didn't your girls just watch a live birthing video? How do you do that without grasping at least the "idea" of sex?
I will talk to both my kids about these issues. I thought about this recently and man - those are going to be two different conversations - one with my son and one with my daughter. I wish these issues were discussed more.
I certainly want my children to know what rape is but at 5 and 7 sex hasn't even come up so I not sure that we should be talking about rape.
Sure - maybe 5 is a little young to use those words - but I have talked about boundaries, privacy with my son and we have read books about appropriate touching and behavior. He asks to be alone in the bathroom because he knows that no one is to see him naked. He knows not to barge in on people changing and he knows that his body is his own.
He also knows that he is not to touch anyone else either - that their bodies belong to themselves as well.
I did not use the words "rape and molestation" but I will someday. And I have already explained to him the fundamentals of these concepts.
I think most of us that don't like this commercial--and that's what it really is, since they're selling clothing for a profit--aren't objecting to frank discussions with children or encouraging feminism.
Is it the actual swearing that makes people uncomfortable or the overall premise?
For example, if the word fuck was completely eliminated, but everything else was exactly the same, would that be ok?
Or people just don't like kids being used to talk about "adult" issues regardless and they should've used actors over the age of 18?
I know I should stay away from comments but this one just made my head explode:
Sergey Rotbart 8 hours ago The modern women can no longer cook, they no longer want children and they are no longer warm, tidy and loving creatures who think spending time with their family is a good thing. They are probably too "independent" and "strong" to even have a family of their own. The only thing modern women have to offer men today is sex. So instead of being loving housewives who cook and raise children, they are reduced to being sexual objects only - and they are so messed up emotionally and intellectually that they often spend most of the money they make on their jobs on plastic surgery, cosmetics and tons of clothes they think will make them look good, in a desperate attempt to stay or become more attractive. Well, they have no other qualities attractive to men, so what else can we expect? This is the fruit of feminism. The fruit of "women's liberation".
Post by deanlicker78 on Oct 23, 2014 9:49:44 GMT -5
I just watched this video with the 3 other women that work in the office. The oldest one (62) hated the video and commented that she wished we would go back to the time when this stuff wasn't discussed.
My boss said instead of people preaching that we should teach boys not to rape, we need to preach to girls to dress with respect.
I think most of us that don't like this commercial--and that's what it really is, since they're selling clothing for a profit--aren't objecting to frank discussions with children or encouraging feminism.
I don't think most of you are either, except for the ones who specifically said that they were.
Are you talking about me? Because I never said that. My girls know about private parts and about not letting anyone touch them and not touching anyone else's and not letting anyone do anything to them that makes them uncomfortable. You know, age appropriate discussions.
Like I said, I like the message. I understand why they made the video the way they did. But I don't like it. I maintain that the girls are too young.
And of course it is horrible that children get molested. But that has nothing to do with feminism.
i don't really see this as any different than any other child actor/performer. we don't rag on kids who star in R rated movies - where their parts require questionable scenes and age-inappropriate content, etc.
I agree with this in theory, but then I recall the uproar when Dakota Fanning (?) was in that movie as a child where it was simulated that she was raped and people were up in arms. I think for some people, for some topics, there is no "appropriate" for children, even for pretend. And I respect that. CLEARLY this video is distinct from that movie scene in a wide variety of ways, but I get the perspective.
I ALSO get the perspective that this is a message our girls (and boys) need to hear from a young age. It's one I share with L and will share with O. But I won't use the F word when I'm doing it. So, there's that.
I am torn here.
And I respectfully disagree with Papie that rape and sexual assault have nothing to do with feminism.
I think most of us that don't like this commercial--and that's what it really is, since they're selling clothing for a profit--aren't objecting to frank discussions with children or encouraging feminism.
Is it the actual swearing that makes people uncomfortable or the overall premise?
For example, if the word fuck was completely eliminated, but everything else was exactly the same, would that be ok?
Or people just don't like kids being used to talk about "adult" issues regardless and they should've used actors over the age of 18?
It's not just the fucks, but i wasn't crazy about the language. Put those girls in jeans and t-shirts and have them deliver the info. That's a powerful enough message. The whole "We're edgy! Fuckity fuck fuck! Buy our t shirts!" I just don't care for it.
I was not offended by the video. I think it's important to teach appropriate behavior at a young age. I was not. My uncle's father tried to molest me and I had no idea what he was doing, I just knew something was wrong when he stuck his tongue in my mouth. I was able to get away from him but I wish I had been more educated about what the hell he was trying to do. I'm glad my instincts told me to get away. I think I was 5-6 at the time. I don't think it's ever too early to empower little girls (not by using foul language as in the video).
I'm very sorry to all the women here who have been abused/molested/assaulted. And thank you those who shared their stories.
Post by shostakovich on Oct 23, 2014 10:13:10 GMT -5
I'm not really caffeinated enough yet to articulate my feelings, so I'll just ditto cville. I'm also torn about this video, and I think both sides have made goods points in this thread.
Also - I could really do without all of the neck rolling these girls are doing.
i don't really see this as any different than any other child actor/performer. we don't rag on kids who star in R rated movies - where their parts require questionable scenes and age-inappropriate content, etc.
I agree with this in theory, but then I recall the uproar when Dakota Fanning (?) was in that movie as a child where it was simulated that she was raped and people were up in arms. I think for some people, for some topics, there is no "appropriate" for children, even for pretend. And I respect that. CLEARLY this video is distinct from that movie scene in a wide variety of ways, but I get the perspective.
I ALSO get the perspective that this is a message our girls (and boys) need to hear from a young age. It's one I share with L and will share with O. But I won't use the F word when I'm doing it. So, there's that.
I am torn here.
And I respectfully disagree with Papie that rape and sexual assault have nothing to do with feminism.
I feel like I am having a hard time articulating myself in here. To me, rape and sexual assault of young women and rape and sexual assault of children are separate issues because little boys also get assaulted. One is women assaulted by men, and the other is children assaulted by grownups, regardless of gender. Again I think it makes much more sense in my head than in writing. So I think I will stop now.
Is it the actual swearing that makes people uncomfortable or the overall premise?
For example, if the word fuck was completely eliminated, but everything else was exactly the same, would that be ok?
Or people just don't like kids being used to talk about "adult" issues regardless and they should've used actors over the age of 18?
It's not just the fucks, but i wasn't crazy about the language. Put those girls in jeans and t-shirts and have them deliver the info. That's a powerful enough message. The whole "We're edgy! Fuckity fuck fuck! Buy our t shirts!" I just don't care for it.
Ahh ok got it, so you didn't like the whole delivery including the language and their outfits. So the argument isn't about their age but about how these girls were told to act for this video. I understand what you mean now. I guess that's the beauty of acting and the creative arts.
I have a friend who is getting her Phd in media and current events (or something along those lines) and often posts thought provoking insights in to tv shows, movies and shorts like this. I'll have to ask her her thoughts.
I agree with this in theory, but then I recall the uproar when Dakota Fanning (?) was in that movie as a child where it was simulated that she was raped and people were up in arms. I think for some people, for some topics, there is no "appropriate" for children, even for pretend. And I respect that. CLEARLY this video is distinct from that movie scene in a wide variety of ways, but I get the perspective.
I ALSO get the perspective that this is a message our girls (and boys) need to hear from a young age. It's one I share with L and will share with O. But I won't use the F word when I'm doing it. So, there's that.
I am torn here.
And I respectfully disagree with Papie that rape and sexual assault have nothing to do with feminism.
I feel like I am having a hard time articulating myself in here. To me, rape and sexual assault of young women and rape and sexual assault of children are separate issues because little boys also get assaulted. One is women assaulted by men, and the other is children assaulted by grownups, regardless of gender. Again I think it makes much more sense in my head than in writing. So I think I will stop now.
Ah, I see.
To my mind, because more girls will grow up to be women assaulted by men than boys will grow up to be men assaulted by men (or women), the message for girls needs to be different and has to be different. The message needs to be targeted to and about females of all ages differently than males. ETA: I don't necessarily think THIS video is the way to go about that, I'm talking generally about assault as a feminist issue here.
I was a girl who was not assaulted by a grown up, who grew up to be a woman assaulted by a man in a society that is disinclined to believe me or fully support me unless my story fits exactly the story they'd want to hear: that I was dressed like a nun, walking home from the library in broad daylight, and abducted at gunpoint by a rogue, very bad man who no one liked. Fuck that. I was always a feminist, but you bet your ass I will take it to the wall on how antifeminists degrade the experience and reality of assault victims. And I thank heaven that I received so many feminist messages from such a young age so that even though in my deepest soul I have the same doubts every victim likely has, they are small and they are shouted down by the rest of my brain.
That is not to say I don't think messages about sexual assault are unimportant for boys and for men to hear. Like I said, it's just different.
Post by spellingbea on Oct 23, 2014 10:23:34 GMT -5
I do think rape is a feminist issue, but papie made me wonder if this were two different PSAs, (not for profit) would I have less of an issue with it. The sexual assault issue needs a separate video.
I don't think I'm getting my point across well. This is why I stick to fluff threads usually. I need to find @booby's hot dog thread. I'm not too stupid for that one, lol.
Look, I just think it was amateurish and kind of stupid, not to mention close to unwatchable. I've never been accused of being anti-feminist, lol, or of not wanting to be frank in discussions about.....anything. I'm the same way with my daughters, and in no way want them to be shrinking flowers. You can support the "message," agree with the statistics, and still think this piece was not very well done.
I'm also not a fan of the Real Housewiving of our society. The way these girls were portrayed, they were five seconds away from flipping a table, lol. That's not an effective way for anyone to communicate: shaking your finger, flipping your hair, and saying "motherfucker" every 2 seconds. No.
This right here. Having girls act like potty-mouthed airheads to get the point across is kind of icky.