I shouldn't respond, but I will. She is parenting her second child and my husband and I are parenting her firstborn. This is her first and hopefully last abortion. Parenting is difficult under the best circumstances. It's unfathomably harder when you are dealing with developmental delays, poverty, and an abusive/coercive relationship.
Adoption is a viable alternative to parenting. Abortion is a viable alternative to unwanted pregnancy.
And to quote Toledo, "Shut the fuuuuuuuck up, hairbow."
Thanks for explaining the situation. I think what you're doing is completely selfless. But I disagree with you on your last point. Adoption is also a perfectly viable alternative to an unwanted pregnancy. Everyone is entitled to feel how they want to, obviously. But I personally feel like ending a life just because you don't want to have to deal with the goings on of being pregnant, is not okay. But I really do wish all of you the best of luck.
Ah yes, I forgot about how no African-American babies are waiting endlessly to be adopted. Lines out the door, right?
In my experience, if a plan covers abortion it's covered the same as any other non-preventive service which that means it can apply to your copay, deductible, and/or out of pocket amounts. So then it just depends what your amounts are and what you've already met. So if you've got a huge deductible, for example, and haven't met any or much of that it can be quite pricey. Of course some awesome plans just cover all of that at 100%, but sadly it seems plans that good are getting harder to find.
Of course that's assuming it's covered at all.
Jermys, you're so awesome for everything you do.
Deductibles are definitely an issue, but some clinics will only use insurance for a portion of the procedure ie everything except the abortion even if your insurance covers it. It's actually really common the later you get for clinics to either only accept insurance for part of it or to not take insurance at all.
Very true. I've also seen where some clinics demand a letter from your insurance company stating exactly what they will pay, which many companies can't/won't do. It's such a disaster for someone already dealing with so much.
Lurker just coming in to say that although I haven't been around long enough to remember most posters, I always remember you Jermys, because you seem like the kindest person. Bmom is truly blessed to have you in her life.
Post by ashbridemd on Oct 23, 2014 20:32:12 GMT -5
Why must someone always make this a race issue? Somehow I think a person who has been struggling to have a baby for years on end, isn't going to care what fucking color their child is. I know I wouldn't.
I agree, adoption has to be hard emotionally. But I would think knowing that you denied someone a life altogether would be even more difficult to live with.
Believe it or not, I think abortion is something that government should stay the fuck out of. Let people do what they want, their the ones who have to live with it. But it still makes me really sad hearing about instances like this where unwanted pregnancies KEEP happening, and a child's life is turned upside down, or ended. Do you kind of see where I'm coming from, without thinking I'm a total bitch? I'm trying to be as polite as I can, while still getting my feelings across.
Why is she not taking advantage of free birth control? Why should her insurance (undoubtedly free for her...at the cost of tax payers) pay for an abortion just because she is clearly irresponsible? Pro choice or pro life doesn't even matter at this point. Her history proves her to be grossly irresponsible but yet everyone here believes she should just be provided with free services. How about some condoms?? They're way cheaper!
You are an ignorant twat. Crawl back into whatever cesspool you came from.
And take Assbride with you.
Lol, why? Because I happen to have a different opinion than yours? How typical of you
Post by ashbridemd on Oct 23, 2014 20:42:45 GMT -5
It does make me laugh when the liberal party always preaches acceptance and tolerance and to love one another. And then turns around and is just plain old nasty when it comes to someone disagreeing with their POV.
Look- I get it. Touchy subject. It always will be. All I am saying is it's a sad situation, wish there were a different way, and I wish Jermys and the bmom the best of luck.
Why must someone always make this a race issue? Somehow I think a person who has been struggling to have a baby for years on end, isn't going to care what fucking color their child is. I know I wouldn't.
I agree, adoption has to be hard emotionally. But I would think knowing that you denied someone a life altogether would be even more difficult to live with.
Believe it or not, I think abortion is something that government should stay the fuck out of. Let people do what they want, their the ones who have to live with it. But it still makes me really sad hearing about instances like this where unwanted pregnancies KEEP happening, and a child's life is turned upside down, or ended. Do you kind of see where I'm coming from, without thinking I'm a total bitch? I'm trying to be as polite as I can, while still getting my feelings across.
It is a race issue though. Black and biracial children are considered special needs because there aren't enough people willing to cross the color lines to adopt them. People can be incredibly specific about what they will and won't accept when they adopt, because we all know what we can and cannot handle. H and I said no to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, but yes to missing limbs, blindness, deafness, depression, some mental illnesses, etc. We specifically chose our agency's black and biracial program because we thought we could handle having an interracial family. Some people don't think they can handle being a conspicuous family for the rest of their lives. Those people shouldn't have to take on something they can't handle just because they want a baby.
For some people, it's harder to hear a child you carried and birthed calling someone else Mommy. For some people, the loss of an unwanted pregnancy is easier.
I do see where you're coming from. I personally think it's easier to be aborted than to grow up in poverty. But that may be because I was supposed to have been aborted but grew up in poverty instead. It sure would have been easier for my mother to have had an abortion than to have another child she couldn't afford to raise.
Why must someone always make this a race issue? Somehow I think a person who has been struggling to have a baby for years on end, isn't going to care what fucking color their child is. I know I wouldn't.
I agree, adoption has to be hard emotionally. But I would think knowing that you denied someone a life altogether would be even more difficult to live with.
Believe it or not, I think abortion is something that government should stay the fuck out of. Let people do what they want, their the ones who have to live with it. But it still makes me really sad hearing about instances like this where unwanted pregnancies KEEP happening, and a child's life is turned upside down, or ended. Do you kind of see where I'm coming from, without thinking I'm a total bitch? I'm trying to be as polite as I can, while still getting my feelings across.
It is a race issue though. Black and biracial children are considered special needs because there aren't enough people willing to cross the color lines to adopt them. People can be incredibly specific about what they will and won't accept when they adopt, because we all know what we can and cannot handle. H and I said no to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, but yes to missing limbs, blindness, deafness, depression, some mental illnesses, etc. We specifically chose our agency's black and biracial program because we thought we could handle having an interracial family. Some people don't think they can handle being a conspicuous family for the rest of their lives. Those people shouldn't have to take on something they can't handle just because they want a baby.
For some people, it's harder to hear a child you carried and birthed calling someone else Mommy. For some people, the loss of an unwanted pregnancy is easier.
I do see where you're coming from. I personally think it's easier to be aborted than to grow up in poverty. But that may be because I was supposed to have been aborted but grew up in poverty instead. It sure would have been easier for my mother to have had an abortion than to have another child she couldn't afford to raise.
Thanks for all the information. I had no idea color could be considered "special needs". Sad we live in a world where it's like that.
It does make me laugh when the liberal party always preaches acceptance and tolerance and to love one another. And then turns around and is just plain old nasty when it comes to someone disagreeing with their POV.
Look- I get it. Touchy subject. It always will be. All I am saying is it's a sad situation, wish there were a different way, and I wish Jermys and the bmom the best of luck.
The best of luck in this case would be for her to be able to afford an abortion. Which she can't because they cost a shitload of money. Her luck appeared in the form of Jermys anonymously stepping in.
It does make me laugh when the liberal party always preaches acceptance and tolerance and to love one another. And then turns around and is just plain old nasty when it comes to someone disagreeing with their POV.
.
Kinda like how the conservatives claim to be all about Jesus but blatantly ignore his teachings on love, acceptance and empathy?
And then disenfranchises entire segments if the population based in their so-called Christian beliefs?
Blanket statements, they are fucking stupid.
Hey, I completely agree with you 100%. But still- It's kind of easy to just not be an asshole when you're disagreeing with someone. Just...Don't be an asshole.
It does make me laugh when the liberal party always preaches acceptance and tolerance and to love one another. And then turns around and is just plain old nasty when it comes to someone disagreeing with their POV.
Look- I get it. Touchy subject. It always will be. All I am saying is it's a sad situation, wish there were a different way, and I wish Jermys and the bmom the best of luck.
I hate this "argument." It's so lazy. And, frankly, immature.
People who disagree, strenuously, aren't being "intolerant" or "unaccepting." They're disagreeing. In the world, you do not have to be like "omigah, I have SEEN THE LIGHT and you are totes mcgotes correct forevah" in order to be "tolerant" and "accepting."
People here have used unkind words with you. That has less to do with what you believe and more to do with A) your history here and B) your presentation in this post. That also isn't "intolerant" or "unaccepting." It's not particularly friendly or nice, but that doesn't make it intolerant.
Moreover, no one here speaks for "the liberal party," which I note is an undefined term. Everyone here speaks for herself. Me included.
Post by ashbridemd on Oct 23, 2014 20:54:04 GMT -5
I don't really think I've been mean or nasty or gone out of my way to make a disrespectful statement or being an asshole about my opinion. I've learned a lot from the information Jermys has given me.
It is a race issue though. Â Black and biracial children are considered special needs because there aren't enough people willing to cross the color lines to adopt them. Â People can be incredibly specific about what they will and won't accept when they adopt, because we all know what we can and cannot handle. Â H and I said no to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, but yes to missing limbs, blindness, deafness, depression, some mental illnesses, etc. Â We specifically chose our agency's black and biracial program because we thought we could handle having an interracial family. Â Some people don't think they can handle being a conspicuous family for the rest of their lives. Â Those people shouldn't have to take on something they can't handle just because they want a baby. Â
For some people, it's harder to hear a child you carried and birthed calling someone else Mommy. Â For some people, the loss of an unwanted pregnancy is easier. Â
I do see where you're coming from. Â I personally think it's easier to be aborted than to grow up in poverty. Â But that may be because I was supposed to have been aborted but grew up in poverty instead. Â It sure would have been easier for my mother to have had an abortion than to have another child she couldn't afford to raise. Â
Anecdote:
My aunt's friend adopted his son from Argentina (I think). (Full disclosure: I don't remember the country he adopted from, but he is gay and that is one of the few South American countries that allow LGBTQ adoption.)
When he flew down there to start the process, he indicated that he was hoping to adopt an infant or younger child.
They told him, "No, no. There is only one baby and he is disabled and deformed. You don't want him."
He said, "I am a lawyer. I have a lot of money to care for a baby. I want to adopt this baby."
They went back and forth, and eventually my aunt's friend was able to adopt the little boy he named Sammy.
It does make me laugh when the liberal party always preaches acceptance and tolerance and to love one another. And then turns around and is just plain old nasty when it comes to someone disagreeing with their POV.
Look- I get it. Touchy subject. It always will be. All I am saying is it's a sad situation, wish there were a different way, and I wish Jermys and the bmom the best of luck.
Here's the thing, believing in tolerance and acceptance as general principles doesn't mean tolerating and accepting those who advocate for restricting someone else's rights, or those who preach intolerance for someone else's choices about their bodies and lives.
It does make me laugh when the liberal party always preaches acceptance and tolerance and to love one another. And then turns around and is just plain old nasty when it comes to someone disagreeing with their POV.
Look- I get it. Touchy subject. It always will be. All I am saying is it's a sad situation, wish there were a different way, and I wish Jermys and the bmom the best of luck.
Here's the thing, believing in tolerance and acceptance as general principles doesn't mean tolerating and accepting those who advocate for restricting someone else's rights, or those who preach intolerance for someone else's choices about their bodies and lives.
Yeah, the thing that faulty argument forgets is exactly this. That drives me crazy, it's not "intolerant" to argue or advocate for letting people make their own goddamn decisions about abortion/gay marriage/whatever other talking point - it is intolerant to want to restrict those people's rights because you don't agree with their decisions.
It is a race issue though. Black and biracial children are considered special needs because there aren't enough people willing to cross the color lines to adopt them. People can be incredibly specific about what they will and won't accept when they adopt, because we all know what we can and cannot handle. H and I said no to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, but yes to missing limbs, blindness, deafness, depression, some mental illnesses, etc. We specifically chose our agency's black and biracial program because we thought we could handle having an interracial family. Some people don't think they can handle being a conspicuous family for the rest of their lives. Those people shouldn't have to take on something they can't handle just because they want a baby.
For some people, it's harder to hear a child you carried and birthed calling someone else Mommy. For some people, the loss of an unwanted pregnancy is easier.
I do see where you're coming from. I personally think it's easier to be aborted than to grow up in poverty. But that may be because I was supposed to have been aborted but grew up in poverty instead. It sure would have been easier for my mother to have had an abortion than to have another child she couldn't afford to raise.
Anecdote:
My aunt's friend adopted his son from Argentina (I think). (Full disclosure: I don't remember the country he adopted from, but he is gay and that is one of the few South American countries that allow LGBTQ adoption.)
When he flew down there to start the process, he indicated that he was hoping to adopt an infant or younger child.
They told him, "No, no. There is only one baby and he is disabled and deformed. You don't want him."
He said, "I am a lawyer. I have a lot of money to care for a baby. I want to adopt this baby."
They went back and forth, and eventually my aunt's friend was able to adopt the little boy he named Sammy.
I have to live with the fact that I had an abortion. And I have to live with the fact that it was the best fucking decision I have ever made! My insurance also covered the cost at 100% and there wasn't a copay. I couldn't imagine having to pay that much wh en you are struggling enough to get by already.
Post by VeryViolet on Oct 23, 2014 21:48:46 GMT -5
I just don't have it in me to do this again and I wish I hadn't read most of this thread. I just wanted to say that Jermys I am constantly amazed at what an awesome person you are. F's b mom is lucky to have you and your kids are lucky to have a great mom too.
ashbridemd How is it that people like you get into nursing school? Didn't losing your job once (IN HEALTHCARE due to misguided personal beliefs) teach you to stop passing judgement on other people's lives? How can you impartially care for a patient if you are sitting and judging her decisions on what to do with her body?
I feel like some posters here need to take a poverty simulation workshop and maybe meet some folks who live on or below the poverty line. It is not a pretty world and it is heartbreaking and hard.
Post by ashbridemd on Oct 23, 2014 21:52:48 GMT -5
Just because I feel a particular way about a medical decision a patient is making, doesn't mean I am going to tell them what *I* think *I* would do. Are you saying that all nurses should be pro-choice or not allowed to be in nursing?
ETA: It also wasn't misguided personal beliefs that led me to losing my job (AND learning a lesson, I might add) but more of a "do I let small children be subjected to drugs and keep my mouth shut, or do I say something?" Ultimately, I made the right call, but paid for it.
Just because I feel a particular way about a medical decision a patient is making, doesn't mean I am going to tell them what *I* think *I* would do. Are you saying that all nurses should be pro-choice or not allowed to be in nursing?
As someone who has been at the hands of an anti-choice doctor at an extremely difficult time, yes I do think that. FTR I got to deal with her fucking bullshit over a wanted pregnancy I was losing I can't even imagine having to be on the end of that with an unwanted pregnancy.
Just because I feel a particular way about a medical decision a patient is making, doesn't mean I am going to tell them what *I* think *I* would do. Are you saying that all nurses should be pro-choice or not allowed to be in nursing?
As someone who has been at the hands of an anti-choice doctor at an extremely difficult time, yes I do think that. FTR I got to deal with her fucking bullshit over a wanted pregnancy I was losing I can't even imagine having to be on the end of that with an unwanted pregnancy.
Apparently, I do have it in me tonight.
Well, it's good to know that, though traumatic, your one experience has led you to believe that people should be discriminated against for their political beliefs when applying for a job.