@majorwife, I'm not even sure anymore if boys and men even know what women or most people want or is normal in sex. I'm not usually one to blame porn but I'm really wondering if that shit isn't contributing. Because while yes, you would think holding a girl down and gang raping her, including use of foreign objects would make men says uhm, maybe this ain't such a good idea, it clearly isn't.
But when you have generations of men watching that shit in porn and getting the wrong idea about what is normal, wanted, and consensual, then it's going to show somewhere, kwim?
Especially since by and large, men aren't watching romcoms. So I wonder if they are getting a vastly imbalanced picture of what women look like when they are enjoying sex, what kind of sex they enjoy, what enthusiastic participation looks like.
Now granted, I think it should be obvious but when the scene laid out before you mirrors a Vivid production, I guess I'm wondering how far the programming goes, kwim?
i agree totally with your arguments about porn. i think jezebel had an article where the biggest fans of this particular porn star were invited to have lunch with her and she told them about all the injuries she receives filming. how its not all "yay sexy sex" and kittens and rainbows and orgasms and they were shocked. literally horrified that she was enduring that while they were jacking off.
and that is "consensual" sex she is engaging in.
i have no doubt that most people have a very titled view of what positive and consensual sex looks like
This reminds me of a documentary I watched years ago, basically following a particular porn company and the woman who owned/operated it. It talked about how they pressured the new actresses who were OK with doing just girl on girl into doing guy on girl flicks. It talked about how violent/rape videos were becoming more popular so they were making more. In an effort to make them realistic some of the porn stars were actually being raped. In one particular story, the owner talked about calling up one of her friends in the industry to do a shoot and when she arrived she was punched a few times and gang raped on set basically. She had no idea that that was going to happen. Then afterwards the owner was like "sorry about that. Can I take you out for a drink? Your check's in the mail". Awful. I'll never forget it.
It certainly provides a good defense. And that is silly. As long we provide hand delivered reasons why something/someone else is to blame we can expect the same behavior.
And you like porn and I assume are not desensitized?
You're just . . . logic is not your friend, is it?
I don't see the needs for us to start insulting each other in this discussion.
You're just . . . logic is not your friend, is it?
I don't see the needs for us to start insulting each other in this discussion.
You blaze into the thread telling us we are making excuses for rapists, when we clearly are not, and refuse to entertain an idea that people far more learned than you or I have debated for years because, well, you simply know. Worst of all, you don't seem to understand the argument being made. No one is saying these men were too stupid to know what they were doing because they have watched oodles of porn. If only it were that simple.
I don't see the needs for us to start insulting each other in this discussion.
You blaze into the thread telling us we are making excuses for rapists, when we clearly are not, and refuse to entertain an idea that people far more learned than you or I have debated for years because, well, you simply know. Worst of all, you don't seem to understand the argument being made. No one is saying these men were too stupid to know what they were doing because they have watched oodles of porn. If only it were that simple.
There are a lot of assumptions in here. It's a complicated and sensitive topic and my thoughts on it are not meant to offend anyone.
I do sometimes feel like we're just broken. We're just a horrible broken fucked up species who can't really get it right. We have flashes of light and love, but sometimes I think that as a whole we might be pretty irredeemable.
Other times I do actually have faith in humanity, but right now, thinking about how through our entire history we've done terrible things to each other in order to survive or for our gods or because we think it's necessary...and that's fucked up but at least I can say, "well those are dark times. But it's not always like that." But in this place, in this time, in a place where these people literally want for NOTHING we're still doing it? Not one of those faithful happy times. Not one bit.
Our species is a plague on the planet. Â I don't see how we can be the favored species.Â
I don't see the needs for us to start insulting each other in this discussion.
You blaze into the thread telling us we are making excuses for rapists, when we clearly are not, and refuse to entertain an idea that people far more learned than you or I have debated for years because, well, you simply know. Worst of all, you don't seem to understand the argument being made. No one is saying these men were too stupid to know what they were doing because they have watched oodles of porn. If only it were that simple.
Seriously, did nobody vett this guy before they picked and announced this??? NOBODY saw this coming??
And yet we're supposed to believe them or give them the benefit of the doubt that they're handling this allegations properly and treating victims with respect and taking them seriously. Right.
"Frats are often the sole option for an underage drinker looking to party, since bars are off-limits, sororities are dry and first-year students don't get many invites to apartment soirees. Instead, the kids crowd the walkways of the big, anonymous frat houses, vying for entry. "Hot girls who are drunk always get in – it's a good idea to act drunker than you really are," says third-year Alexandria Pinkleton, expertly clad in the UVA-after-dark uniform of a midriff-baring sleeveless top and shorts. "Also? You have to seem very innocent and vulnerable. That's why they love first-year girls.""
Interesting that women's houses can't have alcohol and men's houses are awash in it. I wonder whose decision that was?
It's a national approval by the national board of each sorority and the National Panhellenic Council (governing body over all National Sorority boards, each campus also has a local Panhellenic Council to govern sorority houses as a single Greek community). Fraternities have an Inter-Fraternity Council. My perception is that the Panhel board for sororities is much, much stronger than IFC for fraternity, both at a local level and national level. Also, sororities typically have very strong advisors, locally and at the national level, who are adult women ranging from ages 22 to 82 and from all walks of life. Fraternities, in my experience do not.
Each school is allowed to put 'Dry' requirements in at Greek houses if they are a registered organization of the school, and/or receive funding or housing from the school, no matter what those national councils say. Schools can also not allow physical Greek houses on campus (San Diego State is one of the schools I know about who does this).
Yes, this. Sororities are dry because of their own rules and the Panhellenic council. These are national policies that apply to every chapter. The rules are incredibly strict and taken very seriously. I am a member of a sorority and advised a local chapter for many years. Fraternities have nowhere near the amount of rules and regulation.
ng advisors, locally and at the national level, who are adult women ranging f
Yes, this. Sororities are dry because of their own rules and the Panhellenic council. These are national policies that apply to every chapter. The rules are incredibly strict and taken very seriously. I am a member of a sorority and advised a local chapter for many years. Fraternities have nowhere near the amount of rules and regulation.
Yes, this. Sororities are dry because of their own rules and the Panhellenic council. These are national policies that apply to every chapter. The rules are incredibly strict and taken very seriously. I am a member of a sorority and advised a local chapter for many years. Fraternities have nowhere near the amount of rules and regulation.
Because boys will be boys, amirite?
I have never figured out why college aged boys are allowed to run themselves in this way. Why there arent men advisong and more rules. At least for the sororities I have advised the girls in college have an underlying fear and respect for advisors. They also have to have an advisor present at every event.
Yes, this. Sororities are dry because of their own rules and the Panhellenic council. These are national policies that apply to every chapter. The rules are incredibly strict and taken very seriously. I am a member of a sorority and advised a local chapter for many years. Fraternities have nowhere near the amount of rules and regulation.
Because boys will be boys, amirite?
Because apparently their national organizations don't care if they continue to exist as organizations in the future? I have no idea what their justifications are but I don't see fraternities surviving if they don't make significant changes. The fraternities on the campus where I volunteer are completely out of control. I wouldn't be surprised to see more schools go the route CU Boulder did and remove recognition of all the men's groups.
But I find this unfortunate because I don't think this is a fraternity exclusive problem. The fraternities do not make men do these things. The men who think this behavior is acceptable, the friends who blow it off as nothing, and the university administration who downplays/dismisses/covers up are the problem.
I have never figured out why college aged boys are allowed to run themselves in this way. Why there arent men advisong and more rules. At least for the sororities I have advised the girls in college have an underlying fear and respect for advisors. They also have to have an advisor present at every event.
A lot of the advisors of men's groups that I've met are very old and very much have a "boys will be boys" mentality. They turn a blind eye.
Because apparently their national organizations don't care if they continue to exist as organizations in the future? I have no idea what their justifications are but I don't see fraternities surviving if they don't make significant changes. The fraternities on the campus where I volunteer are completely out of control. I wouldn't be surprised to see more schools go the route CU Boulder did and remove recognition of all the men's groups.
To the first point, I think this is where male privilege shows itself. They assume they will face no repercussions because men generally... face no repercussions. Because frats are a longstanding tradition in the same way patriarchy is, and the two are inextricably linked, and so accountability is a mystery to them.
to the last point, lol. I can hear it now: men are being discriminated against! Discrimination!
You blaze into the thread telling us we are making excuses for rapists, when we clearly are not, and refuse to entertain an idea that people far more learned than you or I have debated for years because, well, you simply know. Worst of all, you don't seem to understand the argument being made. No one is saying these men were too stupid to know what they were doing because they have watched oodles of porn. If only it were that simple.
There are a lot of assumptions in here. It's a complicated and sensitive topic and my thoughts on it are not meant to offend anyone.
Because apparently their national organizations don't care if they continue to exist as organizations in the future? I have no idea what their justifications are but I don't see fraternities surviving if they don't make significant changes. The fraternities on the campus where I volunteer are completely out of control. I wouldn't be surprised to see more schools go the route CU Boulder did and remove recognition of all the men's groups.
To the first point, I think this is where male privilege shows itself. They assume they will face no repercussions because men generally... face no repercussions. Because frats are a longstanding tradition in the same way patriarchy is, and the two are inextricably linked, and so accountability is a mystery to them.
to the last point, lol. I can hear it now: men are being discriminated against! Discrimination!
At CU, it was following a death at a fraternity party. I don't recall anyone claiming discrimination against men although maybe they did.