I'm also realizing that a lot of sexual assault victims don't say anything right away because of the shock of what just happened to them.
I was originally on the side of "he's just so fucking weird", but now I'm getting there. I think he might still be using the "I was committed to my art" as an excuse (that's not the word I want, but I can't think of what I want to use) as to why he didn't speak out that day. He probably was just struggling processing what had just happened to him and doesn't want to admit that weakness?
Listen, lady. He didn't even break his performance art to talk to his girlfriend about the fact he was LITERALLY JUST RAPED and just sat there in silence with her. Obviously he is really, super committed to his art.
and also, maybe after being raped he wasn't able to say to himself, "okay, hmm, just been raped. time to go down the rape checklist. first, I'll do this. Then, I'll do that. Finally, I'll do the other thing". Maybe his brain was just spinning and spinning and spinning. Maybe he shut down for his own protection.
Look. I cannot get on board with this flaming of folks asking questions about what he fuck happened here. If Shia says he was raped then he was raped. But come on now nobody else aside from me and lcap is wondering why he didn't break his performance art role and say something? It was a performance whee he was in a room and people were allowed to do anything. No one thought some crazy/kooky fan would try to do something extra abs ridiculous to him?
Finally, I will not be made out to be a rape apologist for wondering these things. Sorry. Not happening today.
I'm also realizing that a lot of sexual assault victims don't say anything right away because of the shock of what just happened to them.
I was originally on the side of "he's just so fucking weird", but now I'm getting there. I think he might still be using the "I was committed to my art" as an excuse (that's not the word I want, but I can't think of what I want to use) as to why he didn't speak out that day. He probably was just struggling processing what had just happened to him and doesn't want to admit that weakness?
this is a good point.
though really, it just doesn't really matter why he didn't jump up and smackabitch - his inaction doesn't in any way excuse or mitigate her actions. It never does.
It's hard to get there though. You want to believe that if you were in a situation that you'd do something, that you'd have control over the moment, over yourself, over your reactions - it's hard to be powerless. To admit to being powerless.
Well, you weren't in line at the exhibit that day.
My point is that I don't think it would take an extraordinary person to tell that woman to gtfo if they noticed her going way too far with the exhibit.
IF they noticed IF they heard IF he responded to questions IF they thought it was criminal or maybe merely uncomfortable IF they thought it was part of the performance or not IF he was under duress IF he was suffering a mental illness IF her boyfriend was in on it IF IF IF.
The fact that in the moment no one did anything isn't proof of a goddamned thing.
Was this a weird situation that was, by design as performance art, intended to induce questions? Sure. But so far as I'm concerned that's as relevant to an allegation of rape as is what he was wearing. That doesn't mean I think questioning is de facto being a doubting, rape-supporting asshole. But I take offense, personally and in general, at the notion that he is required to answer or address each and every question you (general you) has in order to have his story accepted.
The collaborators said they never told people they could do whatever they wanted to him, so if that's true then a large chunk of this entire discussion is moot.
So people cannot be raped unless the explicitly say "no rape"?
This is the OPPOSITE of where we are going with sexual assault thinking. Yes means yes. Yes means yes. Yes means yes.
Should we all wear signs around our necks that say "no raping allowed" and if we don't we can be raped?
That's not technically correct, because the law says that rape is a crime. Unless it's circumvented by consent.
Don't mind me. I'm going down the twisty rabbit hole.
No. I'm not stating what the law is. This is absolutely not what the law is. I'm responding to the poster who said "but he didn't put up a "no rape sign...so...."
IF they noticed IF they heard IF he responded to questions IF they thought it was criminal or maybe merely uncomfortable IF they thought it was part of the performance or not IF he was under duress IF he was suffering a mental illness IF her boyfriend was in on it IF IF IF.
The fact that in the moment no one did anything isn't proof of a goddamned thing.
Was this a weird situation that was, by design as performance art, intended to induce questions? Sure. But so far as I'm concerned that's as relevant to an allegation of rape as is what he was wearing. That doesn't mean I think questioning is de facto being a doubting, rape-supporting asshole. But I take offense, personally and in general, at the notion that he is required to answer or address each and every question you (general you) has in order to have his story accepted.
No one in this thread is saying he wasn't raped! The people who are questioning are just wondering HOW it happened. Isn't that the point of these boards? To ask questions and discuss? And I didn't say the fact that no one did anything is proof that it didn't happen. I'm saying it's really really odd that there were apparently witnesses who can confirm his story and none of these people thought to stop it. Like, wtf were they thinking?
I was under the impression that he and the woman were alone in the room together - there were guards/ushers posted outside the doors, and the woman's boyfriend was outside, in line to come through next. It was only after an inordinately long period of time and the woman leaving with messed up hair and clothing that they thought the situation was peculiar. But if you've read a different description, let me know. I admit I only skimmed this article, which I also saw on FB yesterday.
Even in those places there has to be mutual consent to the act.
I would think there is no consent form that could consent to sexual assault. Assault is by definition unwelcome and unpermitted, and illegal, and you cannot contract to perform illegal activity. There could be consent for sex/sexual contact, but the questions that would arise would be whether the sexual contact consented to included the sexual contact that actually occurred.
Even though state laws vary, the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting Program (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr) revised its definition of rape as "the penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."
So she could have put her finger in his anus. Or put his penis in her mouth. It doesn't necessarily mean that she was on top of him riding him.
Even in those places there has to be mutual consent to the act.
I would think there is no consent form that could consent to sexual assault. Assault is by definition unwelcome and unpermitted, and illegal, and you cannot contract to perform illegal activity. There could be consent for sex/sexual contact, but the questions that would arise would be whether the sexual contact consented to included the sexual contact that actually occurred.
I am not a criminal attorney, however.
That's where the safe word comes in. That's when you know it's assault. You can change your mind after signing the form I'm sure but you have to do something. ..
I would think there is no consent form that could consent to sexual assault. Assault is by definition unwelcome and unpermitted, and illegal, and you cannot contract to perform illegal activity. There could be consent for sex/sexual contact, but the questions that would arise would be whether the sexual contact consented to included the sexual contact that actually occurred.
I am not a criminal attorney, however.
That's where the safe word comes in. That's when you know it's assault. You can change your mind after signing the form I'm sure but you have to do something. ..
I wasn't speaking to S&M places in particular, I was speaking to the original question of whether you can consent to sexual assault. And I do not think lack of utterance of a "safe word" would be a defense to a criminal act. I mean, someone would raise it, I'm sure. But I would doubt if it would be successful.
That's where the safe word comes in. That's when you know it's assault. You can change your mind after signing the form I'm sure but you have to do something. ..
Please don't believe everything, no anything, you read in some books, ike 50 Shades.
I was really being tic. I'm sure the consent form for such activity has more than a few ways to indicate you've changed your mind. Liability reasons you know.
I'm not questioning his integrity or arguing that he wasn't raped. I'm just questioning the circumstances of HOW something like this happened. We probably don't have all the details though. Like, did anyone who thought he was being raped think to stop this woman and identify her? I just think it's really weird that a bunch of people stood around knowing this was going on and did nothing.
I think the fact that the boyfriend was standing at the door is enough for me to understand why he didn't leave while it was happening. It wasn't just the woman there.
This is a good point.
Just so I am clear though, he had a bag over his head and was sitting alone in a room. So dark and alone to the extent that, as a PP noted, the rapist may have been so far into perpetuating the crime that he might not even have realized what was going to happen until it was too late (if he knew at all)? But he knew that the boyfriend was standing outside the door and that may have prevented him from leaving?
I don't understand where this detail is coming from, to be honest. Is it speculation?
The collaborators said they never told people they could do whatever they wanted to him, so if that's true then a large chunk of this entire discussion is moot.
What guidelines were the participants given? I didn't see anything in the article.
I'm wondering this aside from the rape allegation. Like wawa I just don't get performance art.
It's totally normal to have questions and want details. But the fact that we are asking how HE could have stopped HER and not "WTF is wrong with her?" "How is this horrible person not in Jail?" "Rout that bitch out and lock her up!" Is pretty spot on that we live in a rape culture. We expect rape unless we specifically ask for it to not happen.