Thanks Moxie, but this board wouldn't be the same without all the raging bitches with holier-than-thou attitudes. They just can't help themselves, it is like a heroin addiction.
LOL, so you think random people being gunned down by a crazy person in a movie theatre is the same thing as an act of domestic terrorism where people were targeted specifically because of their religion are the same? And I am the insensitive one? LOL, yea okay.
I'm curious....Would you have done the same thing for someone of another religion? Say a fundamentalist Christian? Or a Hasidic Jew?
It strongly suggests you think of your recipient only in terms of being part of that target group. It also suggests you have no personal friends or connections to the targeted group (if you offer the condolences to a stranger). That is a direct contrast to a tourism situation where you are the American tourist around - and therefore bot being seen as "an American" and the only likely subject for such condolences.
It doesn't suggest any of that at all actually, because none of that is true. And as someone else pointed out, there isn't a contrast with the American situation. But it's ok, I know you need to win the contest for who can appear to be the most pseudo-intellectual and cut me down the most.
Suggestion has nothing (or little) to do with truth. It's about perception, and people are obviously perceiving you as someone who stereotypes people based on appearance. (I'm not saying what you did was wrong or bad, but I see where people are coming from and I think you can, too.)
LOL, so you think random people being gunned down by a crazy person in a movie theatre is the same thing as an act of domestic terrorism where people were targeted specifically because of their religion are the same? And I am the insensitive one? LOL, yea okay.
I'm curious....Would you have done the same thing for someone of another religion? Say a fundamentalist Christian? Or a Hasidic Jew?
Sure, if I happened to run into one right after others in thei group were victims of a terrible instance of domestic terrorism where they were targeted because of their religion. Maybe I am more sensitive than most, but if I practiced a religion where people consistently and wrongfully faced violence and racism since 9/11, and then were at the recieving end of a massive act of violence because of that religion, I would feel deeply affected.
Clearly most of you are saying you wouldn't care and would be offended if someone assumed that might sadden you in any way.
I'm curious....Would you have done the same thing for someone of another religion? Say a fundamentalist Christian? Or a Hasidic Jew?
Sure, if I happened to run into one right after others in thei group were victims of a terrible instance of domestic terrorism where they were targeted because of their religion. Maybe I am more sensitive than most, but if I practiced a religion where people consistently and wrongfully faced violence and racism since 9/11, and then were at the recieving end of a massive act of violence because of that religion, I would feel deeply affected.
Clearly most of you are saying you wouldn't care and would be offended if someone assumed that might sadden you in any way.
IDK. If there was a shooting at a Catholic Church during Mass and someone said something to me knowing I was a devout Catholic, I don't think I'd side-eye them.
Yes, but they would only know that you were Catholic because they know you. Not from any outward appearance.
I think what people are reacting to is that she categorized this person on the way he was dressed, lumped all Sikh's together in her mind, and offered him condolences. While I wouldn't call that racism by any stretch of imagination, it's still unconscious stereotyping. The black person/treyvon comparison is accurate in this case.
I don't get how it is stereotyping. Sikhs have a very distinct appearance, and there are many in my area. It isn't stereotyping to be able to identify one. I didn't lump all Sikhs together, except to maybe assume that all would be saddened by their brothers and sisters in their religion being the victims of domestic terrorism and being gunned down simply because of their religion, just as I would feel in that situation.
I also love how you guys are all outraged on his behalf when he was very concerned about what has happened and ignored other customers for a minute or two to get more information from me. Clearly he didn't require your outrage on his behalf.
Well, IIOY if it weren't off and running before we have ourselves a full out sprint now.
I am hopeful that this thread will actually be a good thing in the long run. I think there are some really good opportunities here to learn from each other.
Thanks Moxie, but this board wouldn't be the same without all the raging bitches with holier-than-thou attitudes. They just can't help themselves, it is like a heroin addiction.
And we're off.
Happy Monday, CEP!
Hah, cause it's not true? I enjoy many of the current events posts on this board, but whoever says this board isn't full of self-righteous bitches is lying.
I don't get how it is stereotyping. Sikhs have a very distinct appearance, and there are many in my area. It isn't stereotyping to be able to identify one. I didn't lump all Sikhs together, except to maybe assume that all would be saddened by their brothers and sisters in their religion being the victims of domestic terrorism and being gunned down simply because of their religion, just as I would feel in that situation.
I don't get how it is stereotyping. Sikhs have a very distinct appearance, and there are many in my area. It isn't stereotyping to be able to identify one. I didn't lump all Sikhs together, except to maybe assume that all would be saddened by their brothers and sisters in their religion being the victims of domestic terrorism and being gunned down simply because of their religion, just as I would feel in that situation.
::blink blink::
That's what stereotyping is, by definition.
thank you..I was actually looking up stereotyping to make sure I wasn't losing my marbles
Hah, cause it's not true? I enjoy many of the current events posts on this board, but whoever says this board isn't full of self-righteous bitches is lying.
I will cop to it occasionally, I don't think you will find anyone here who wouldn't.
I don't get how it is stereotyping. Sikhs have a very distinct appearance, and there are many in my area. It isn't stereotyping to be able to identify one. I didn't lump all Sikhs together, except to maybe assume that all would be saddened by their brothers and sisters in their religion being the victims of domestic terrorism and being gunned down simply because of their religion, just as I would feel in that situation.
::blink blink::
That's what stereotyping is, by definition.
No, I would call it being knowledgable about a culture/religion and having basic human emotion.
Well, IIOY if it weren't off and running before we have ourselves a full out sprint now.
I am hopeful that this thread will actually be a good thing in the long run. I think there are some really good opportunities here to learn from each other.
Oh come on 2V, you should know better than anyone that the only people who should learn lessons here are the ones with the minority opinion.
I also love how you guys are all outraged on his behalf when he was very concerned about what has happened and ignored other customers for a minute or two to get more information from me. Clearly he didn't require your outrage on his behalf.
ufdah, I don't think anyone in this thread is outraged except for you. Your compassion, while good, was probably misplaced.
Let's take this hypothetical: I'm working and someone comes up and says, "I'm so sorry that your methodist church was targeted today."
My church? What? ::panic:: "I'm sorry, my church? Would you care to elaborate?"
"The methodist church 500 miles from here. Some gunman went in there and killed people."
"Oh, how horrible. I will keep everyone in my prayers."
and that's how the conversation would go. I wouldn't be rude, but I'd be wondering why this random person would be coming up to me to express condolences based upon some outward appearance that I have.
Hah, cause it's not true? I enjoy many of the current events posts on this board, but whoever says this board isn't full of self-righteous bitches is lying.
Look, as someone whose political opinions are often at odds with much of this board, I can appreciate what it's like to swim upstream. Sometimes you just have to say, "OK, we disagree," and walk away, frustrating though that might be. In the entire history of the Internet, I'm fairly certain that an angry, defensive, fuck-you post has changed exactly zero minds, unless your objective is a big fight, in which case, carry on.
I also love how you guys are all outraged on his behalf when he was very concerned about what has happened and ignored other customers for a minute or two to get more information from me. Clearly he didn't require your outrage on his behalf.
ufdah, I don't think anyone in this thread is outraged except for you. Your compassion, while good, was probably misplaced.
Let's take this hypothetical: I'm working and someone comes up and says, "I'm so sorry that your methodist church was targeted today."
My church? What? ::panic:: "I'm sorry, my church? Would you care to elaborate?"
"The methodist church 500 miles from here. Some gunman went in there and killed people."
"Oh, how horrible. I will keep everyone in my prayers."
and that's how the conversation would go. I wouldn't be rude, but I'd be wondering why this random person would be coming up to me to express condolences based upon some outward appearance that I have.
I'm not outraged, I am amused. And I assume in your hypothetical situation, Methodists have also been victims of violence and extreme prejudice because they are mistaken constantly for Muslims (who also obviously shouldn't be targeted)?
And the real life conversation went like this: I am so sorry about what happened at the Sikh temple in Wisconsin today, that is absolutely awful.
What happened???
Oh you didn't hear? I am so sorry, yes a gunman went into the temple and started shooting people.
Oh my gosh, where exactly was this?
:I pull out my cell phone to check the exact name of the town and another car pulls up which he ignores for a moment because he is concerned and wants to know the details:
Oak Creek, Wisconsin - here look at the article.
Who did this?
They don't know yet.
Ok, thank you. He then has to go attend to the customer finally.
Hah, cause it's not true? I enjoy many of the current events posts on this board, but whoever says this board isn't full of self-righteous bitches is lying.
Look, as someone whose political opinions are often at odds with much of this board, I can appreciate what it's like to swim upstream. Sometimes you just have to say, "OK, we disagree," and walk away, frustrating though that might be. In the entire history of the Internet, I'm fairly certain that an angry, defensive, fuck-you post has changed exactly zero minds, unless your objective is a big fight, in which case, carry on.
I am not trying to change minds, I am just ridiculously amused by the chorus of "omg how offensive!!seventy!!" when the guy I talked to wasn't offended at all, and was indeed concerned and upset by what happened.
ufdah, I don't think anyone in this thread is outraged except for you. Your compassion, while good, was probably misplaced.
Let's take this hypothetical: I'm working and someone comes up and says, "I'm so sorry that your methodist church was targeted today."
My church? What? ::panic:: "I'm sorry, my church? Would you care to elaborate?"
"The methodist church 500 miles from here. Some gunman went in there and killed people."
"Oh, how horrible. I will keep everyone in my prayers."
and that's how the conversation would go. I wouldn't be rude, but I'd be wondering why this random person would be coming up to me to express condolences based upon some outward appearance that I have.
I'm not outraged, I am amused. And I assume in your hypothetical situation, Methodists have also been victims of violence and extreme prejudice because they are mistaken constantly for Muslims (who also obviously shouldn't be targeted)?
And the real life conversation went like this: I am so sorry about what happened at the Sikh temple in Wisconsin today, that is absolutely awful.
What happened???
Oh you didn't hear? I am so sorry, yes a gunman went into the temple and started shooting people.
Oh my gosh, where exactly was this?
:I pull out my cell phone to check the exact name of the town and another car pulls up which he ignores for a moment because he is concerned and wants to know the details:
Oak Creek, Wisconsin - here look at the article.
Who did this?
They don't know yet.
Ok, thank you. He then has to go attend to the customer finally.
Ooooooohhhhhhh it's cuz they were *perhaps* mistaken for muslims!
Well in that case, of course! You were totally not at all weird or out of bounds at all!
ETA: it's not that it's offensive. It's that its WEIRD.
Tho the fact that you did it because he is apparently mistaken for Muslim all the time is extra adorable.
I also love how you guys are all outraged on his behalf when he was very concerned about what has happened and ignored other customers for a minute or two to get more information from me. Clearly he didn't require your outrage on his behalf.
ufdah, I don't think anyone in this thread is outraged except for you. Your compassion, while good, was probably misplaced.
Let's take this hypothetical: I'm working and someone comes up and says, "I'm so sorry that your methodist church was targeted today."
My church? What? ::panic:: "I'm sorry, my church? Would you care to elaborate?"
"The methodist church 500 miles from here. Some gunman went in there and killed people."
"Oh, how horrible. I will keep everyone in my prayers."
and that's how the conversation would go. I wouldn't be rude, but I'd be wondering why this random person would be coming up to me to express condolences based upon some outward appearance that I have.
You seriously compared an average American Methodist to an average American Sikh? Seriously?
Once again, I would think there could be a happy medium in this thread.
I think what's unfair is that the OP said waht she said with good intentions. I think we can all agree that it *could* have been taken the wrong way by this man (ie. "weird", "offensive", etc). On the contrary, it seems that he took it in a positive fashion and was very appreciative. He did not appear to get offended by her concern.
So, those of you who think it was weird/borderline offensive, etc have a point. However, the OP also has a point that in this case it was taken in a good way...which means that saying what she said doesn't necessarily have to automatically mean it is ....weird or offensive. KWIM?
I think its a little off but I think its more off that you came and posted it here, labeling your own "compassion" and are upset that people are finding your statement anything but. Im not sure if you were expecting a pat on the back or just a sympathetic 'oh, Im sorry he is not as informed as your are casmgn' but maybe you will consider that posters are all saying this because they hope you dont do it again and not because we like being bitches.
I think its a little off but I think its more off that you came and posted it here, labeling your own "compassion" and are upset that people are finding your statement anything but. Im not sure if you were expecting a pat on the back or just a sympathetic 'oh, Im sorry he is not as informed as your are casmgn' but maybe you will consider that posters are all saying this because they hope you dont do it again and not because we like being bitches.
I actually took her OP as a stab at herself. But the initial post is different than the rest of the thread.
I think its a little off but I think its more off that you came and posted it here, labeling your own "compassion" and are upset that people are finding your statement anything but. Im not sure if you were expecting a pat on the back or just a sympathetic 'oh, Im sorry he is not as informed as your are casmgn' but maybe you will consider that posters are all saying this because they hope you dont do it again and not because we like being bitches.
I actually took her OP as a stab at herself. But the initial post is different than the rest of the thread.
I would have given her the benefit of the doubt on that but her following posts show that she is adamant that she didnt do anything but be compassionate and his not being aware of the situation was the fail.
I think its a little off but I think its more off that you came and posted it here, labeling your own "compassion" and are upset that people are finding your statement anything but. Im not sure if you were expecting a pat on the back or just a sympathetic 'oh, Im sorry he is not as informed as your are casmgn' but maybe you will consider that posters are all saying this because they hope you dont do it again and not because we like being bitches.
I'm not upset, I think the majority of reactions here are bizarre. I wasn't expecting a pat on the back, I was just posting because I felt bad that clearly the man *was* concerned and would be upset for the rest of his shift. My intent was merely to express my sympathy for this tragic and horrific violence, not to be the one to break the news and have him worry for the rest of the evening.