I need some parenting advice. All are welcome

[hopecounts]

I'm with KA
Accident it might have been but she is old enough to accept that accidents have consequences and to know better then to mess around the kitchen when her Mom is working on something.
She needs to pay for the cookies either in all cash or in part with labor.
And by labor I mean scrubbing baseboards, floors, etc. she'd be working for minimum wage and for a good while.

[cohmom]

    Yes, we do pay for innocent mistakes and careless mistakes for sure. Those were beautiful cookies that clearly took skill and love to create. But, I want to teach my kids to forgive others and move on. I'd be pissed too but I don't think taking away American doll money will change anything. She needs to know the rules, why and how she broke them, the consequences of her actions to her mom and the client.
     It sucks, so much work/artistry lost.

[hopecounts]

Feb 6, 2015 22:04:12 GMT -5 cohmom said:

    Yes, we do pay for innocent mistakes and careless mistakes for sure. Those were beautiful cookies that clearly took skill and love to create. But, I want to teach my kids to forgive others and move on. I'd be pissed too but I don't think taking away American doll money will change anything. She needs to know the rules, why and how she broke them, the consequences of her actions to her mom and the client.
     It sucks, so much work/artistry lost.

But she is 9, if she'd broken an item at a store she would have to pay for it.
Just because she did it at home to her Mon's work is no excuse.
She is not a young kid she's a big girl and better she learn the lesson that choices have consequences now before it's about more serious life changing issues.
Love and Logic, the consequence for breaking something is you pay for it or its replacement.

[pixy0stix]

Feb 6, 2015 22:04:12 GMT -5 cohmom said:

    Yes, we do pay for innocent mistakes and careless mistakes for sure. Those were beautiful cookies that clearly took skill and love to create. But, I want to teach my kids to forgive others and move on. I'd be pissed too but I don't think taking away American doll money will change anything. She needs to know the rules, why and how she broke them, the consequences of her actions to her mom and the client.
     It sucks, so much work/artistry lost.

She destroyed money that her family needs. This isn't just a hobby for LP.

[cohmom]

Feb 6, 2015 22:07:58 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Feb 6, 2015 22:04:12 GMT -5 cohmom said:

    Yes, we do pay for innocent mistakes and careless mistakes for sure. Those were beautiful cookies that clearly took skill and love to create. But, I want to teach my kids to forgive others and move on. I'd be pissed too but I don't think taking away American doll money will change anything. She needs to know the rules, why and how she broke them, the consequences of her actions to her mom and the client.
     It sucks, so much work/artistry lost.

But she is 9, if she'd broken an item at a store she would have to pay for it.
Just because she did it at home to her Mon's work is no excuse.
She is not a young kid she's a big girl and better she learn the lesson that choices have consequences now before it's about more serious life changing issues.
Love and Logic, the consequence for breaking something is you pay for it or its replacement.

True.  However, there is no amount of money that can replace the hours of labor and the fabulous cookie art her mom created. I don't know this child but sometimes I think giving forgiveness and reexplaining the rules can be a powerful lesson too. Consequences are important yes but so is the deliberate act of teaching forgiveness.

[origami]

Forgiveness and giving consequences are not mutually exclusive.

[bugandbibs]

In our house, we assign a list of chores with a monetary value to work off debt. Until the debt is paid off there are no fun things like playing outside with friends.

[MrsAxilla]

The fact that she is nine definitely affects my answer. The consequences would be different if she were seven.

[hopecounts]

Feb 6, 2015 22:19:35 GMT -5 cohmom said:

Feb 6, 2015 22:07:58 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

But she is 9, if she'd broken an item at a store she would have to pay for it.
Just because she did it at home to her Mon's work is no excuse.
She is not a young kid she's a big girl and better she learn the lesson that choices have consequences now before it's about more serious life changing issues.
Love and Logic, the consequence for breaking something is you pay for it or its replacement.

True.  However, there is no amount of money that can replace the hours of labor and the fabulous cookie art her mom created. I don't know this child but sometimes I think giving forgiveness and reexplaining the rules can be a powerful lesson too. Consequences are important yes but so is the deliberate act of teaching forgiveness.

Bit that money can replace what was lost that is expected and needed income.
She cost her family money they use to run the household she has to realize that and replace it.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2015 21:39:05 GMT -5 laurenpetro said:

Fwiw, she was REALLY remorseful. But then, she always is. She does this kind of thing and then feels badly afterward.

I think that's part of why I feel like just paying for it isn't enough. This is far from the first time she's done something like this, albeit not this bad.

Damnit.

I'd make her pay for it AND I'd make her unhappy for a straight month. No iPod, tv, friends over, sleepovers, etc for a while, maybe even the full month. That's your work she fucked with and it's happened before. Wanna play, little girl? We can play, especially since you haven't seem to have gotten the point previously.

[Deleted]

I can't help it. I am rolling my eyes at the forgiveness "lesson". Forgiveness is an emotion. I can forgive people all day long but they still have to pay the consequences. And it's a lesson she needs to learn.

We forgive our children by loving them, caring for them, letting them know we won't be pissed at them forever and this too shall pass. We do not forgive them by absolving them of responsibility for their mistakes. She made a mistake in that she chose once again to be careless around her mother's work. We make our children atone for their mistakes in order to teach them to be more careful, most considerate.

Conflating forgiveness and absolution removes the impetus to make better choices later.

[penguingrrl]

Oh man, that sucks! I like KAs ideas, especially the lecture. I also think she needs to understand the magnitude of the money she cost you. Whether taking it from her AG find or doing housework for minim wage is better kind of depends on her, but one of the two or a combination of both without question.

And those cookies were freaking awesome!

[cohmom]

Feb 6, 2015 23:37:00 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

I can't help it. I am rolling my eyes at the forgiveness "lesson". Forgiveness is an emotion. I can forgive people all day long but they still have to pay the consequences. And it's a lesson she needs to learn.

We forgive our children by loving them, caring for them, letting them know we won't be pissed at them forever and this too shall pass. We do not forgive them by absolving them of responsibility for their mistakes. She made a mistake in that she chose once again to be careless around her mother's work. We make our children atone for their mistakes in order to teach them to be more careful, most considerate.

Conflating forgiveness and absolution removes the impetus to make better choices later.

I get that it is not a popular opinion. I grew up in a home with a home based business. I was an uncoordinated and impulsive child. I screwed up a lot of my folks things, we were not well off. When I cost them/us money and I felt terrible. Really terrible. I scrubbed many a bathroom floor,  got my share of spanking and screamed at, I don't think those things helped shape or change my behavior. Ultimately, just getting older, more coordinated and having a more developed forebrain helped. Clearly my views are shaped by the baggage I bring to this. I didn't mean to come off all polly anna.  Consequences are important to mold behavior, agreed.  I didn't know that this wasn't a first offense, and by all means if the money is needed to balance the budget then no AG doll.

[memenee]

I can't imagine how furious you were when you saw this. All that hard work. Those cookies looked awesome!

[partyinmytummy]

[curbsideprophet]

I like the idea of making her pay for the cookies. Does she ever help make the cookies? Does she know how much work is involved? Is there a task she can do as part of the process to help her understand?

[Deleted]

At 9 she is old enough to know she shouldn't have been climbing up there to begin with and she saw and understood that 3 days of work went in to these cookies. I think it's entirely appropriate to have her pay the full value and apologize to your friend in person. If she's done this before then she didn't get the point from whatever the consequences were.

I don't have kids, but I do remember being 8 or 9 and losing $100 would have made a huge impact on my life. It would have been a stronger and more lasting lesson than "forgiveness". I'm getting all heated at the thought that this should be brushed off because she was clumsy. She knocked those cookies over because she was climbing on the counter, not because she has two left feet and tripped.

[kirby]

I think one of the most important things we can learn is to accept responsibility for the consequences of our actions/choices. I think it is necessary for kids to know that they are valuable members of the family unit and their choices/behavior affect those around them. This seems like a great opportunity to learn that in a safe, loving environment. I definitely agree with an apology and paying at least half out of her AG fund.

[dirtyred]

I wouldn't make chores part of the punishment--chores are her contribution to the household. I would take the money out of her American Girl fund and tell her that she can do extra work around the house to earn money if she wants to.

And the lecture. It's genius.

[sju]

Oh wow. Those were amazing cookies.

At 9, I would make her not only pay for it somehow (chores, American girl) but also make her help you with a batch of cookies. No playtime in between; 100% of the time with you. Maybe fully understanding the amount of work and time those take will help.

[NewOrleans]

I have nothing to add but I like the suggestions in here. Yikes. Being a parent is hard, man.

[omgzombies]

My kids love baking too much for that to ever be a punishment. I think the apology letter, and paying for it are lovely ideas. Perhaps scrubbing down the kitchen as well. You make a mess, you are going to clean it up.

[auntie]

At 9 she's old enough to get the concept of cookies that weren't for the family/snacks. I have a friend who has a hobby baking business, her kid got it from the times she was 6-ish.

Was she looking to admire them and knocked them over or was she looking to take some for herself? That would factor into the consequence.

I would have her pay for the damages and apologize to your client- either in a note or personally- which ever will be more difficult for her. (If you do it in person, ask your friend to play along with how disappointed she was not to get the cookies and how she was counting on you).

I'm not a fan of lectures. My dad was a world class windbag. He once lectured me for 5 1/2 hours when I was about 13; I was pretty good at tuning him out and frankly it impacted the amount of influence he had as a parent. It's hard to take a person seriously who can't express a legitimate concern in under 15 minutes.

ETA: Are snacks something to be Ok'd in your house? I can't remember DS asking for a snack much past kindie. He had a drawer in the fridge with yogurt, cheese sticks, fruit that he could help himself to. 

[rndmlurker]

I agree with KA's suggestion. And making her pay for it. Out of her savings. If you have/want to offer chores at min wage to build her savings back up you could do that. But I do think at 9 she is old enough for a life lesson here. Sure it was a mistake. Mistakes (usually) cost money. Sometimes that money can be easily replaced, sometimes it can't. If you give her enough chores in the next couple of weeks to replace the money lost it may seem like its easy to do. But if it takes her a month or two to earn back that $100 she might see more value in it. I would be livid. As someone who also struggles with a home based baking business myself I know how it is to spend hours on a big order with lots of time effort and ingredients! I would cry if I had to throw that much of my completed work in the trash. And right before the order was due! Having to cancel an order for whatever reason is one of my biggest fears. your cookies look awesome, by the way.

[rndmlurker]

Feb 7, 2015 9:28:31 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

My kids love baking too much for that to ever be a punishment. I think the apology letter, and paying for it are lovely ideas. Perhaps scrubbing down the kitchen as well. You make a mess, you are going to clean it up.

Oh yes. She should definitely have to clean it up! I didn't think about that. 

[Deleted]

Also, I'm mad she was climbing on the countertops and digging in food in general. I really hate it when my kids "make mistakes" in the course of doing shit they weren't supposed to be doing.

That's the kind of stuff that sets me off. If she'd been carrying on with her business, in a place where she's supposed to be, under circumstances that she was permitted to do, I'd be far less pissed.

But digging in the kitchen, climbing over the counters, filching snacks she didn't ask for aren't mistakes. It's a series of bad decisions that led to a bad ending.

[pescalita]

I'm a big believer that part of the reason kids turn into assholes is parents lean too much on "developmentally ready". Meaning, you cut junior some slack because he's 3 and his impulse control isn't great. But then at 6, you're still cutting him slack, and just expecting him to magically learn control when he's developed it.

Actions have consequences. She's not too young to learn that. And forgiveness is a separate thing.

[pescalita]

Oh, and I need to know how you make those designs, particularly the I <3 80s ones. Are they hand-piped?

[laurenpetro]

Sorry about bailing last night. On top of everything I have a cold so I took some NyQuil and passed out.

The verdict is she's paying for the full order. I owe her $80 (don't ask) and she has $20 so she'll be paid up. She's grounded for a week and lost a surprise sleepover next weekend. She's also writing an apology note to the customer.

I had considered having her work it off in trade but frankly she sucks at chores. She's voluntarily cleaning her room and the boys' room so I'll keep that.

I was going to have her clean it up but I opted to send her to her room before I said something I regretted. It also gave me the opportunity to take pics .

She's generally a really really good kid, which is why I struggle with her punishments. She's kind and caring and would never do something like this intentionally. But that doesn't change the fact that everything ended up on the floor. H had mentioned possibly pulling her from the school play but she's so socially awkward that it would have done way more harm than good.

[laurenpetro]

Feb 7, 2015 10:45:20 GMT -5 pescalita said:

Oh, and I need to know how you make those designs, particularly the I <3 80s ones. Are they hand-piped?

These were traced. I can do them freehand but I'm hella lazy these days.