My 4.5 year old is driving me bananas

[lala]

Yep, that's why we call it a break. The person needs a break from the situation and/or other people to chill out. Dd1 will even ask to go to her room to take one.

[lala]

Mar 4, 2015 13:11:06 GMT -5 nowa said:

lala, I used to do 123, but I never read the book and then at some point I read something that made me think I wasn't doing it right and I just stopped doing it. I think I was using to get her to do things rather than to stop things? And you're supposed to do the opposite? No?

It was working though, so maybe I should start again. Actually, the rare occasion that I even start counting out of frustration with no thought and no consequence described, she shapes up or begs me to stop counting. So maybe I should start doing it again legit.

Yes, the book suggests counting for stop behaviors not start behaviors.

[nowa]

Mar 4, 2015 13:30:47 GMT -5 lala said:

Mar 4, 2015 13:11:06 GMT -5 nowa said:

lala, I used to do 123, but I never read the book and then at some point I read something that made me think I wasn't doing it right and I just stopped doing it. I think I was using to get her to do things rather than to stop things? And you're supposed to do the opposite? No?

It was working though, so maybe I should start again. Actually, the rare occasion that I even start counting out of frustration with no thought and no consequence described, she shapes up or begs me to stop counting. So maybe I should start doing it again legit.

Yes, the book suggests counting for stop behaviors not start behaviors.

Yea, my issue usually is I need her to doooo something. Refusal leads to tantrum. So how would 123 work there? I mean once the tantrum is started and I need her to stop whining? 123 stop whining?

[andrewsgal]

Mar 4, 2015 13:37:05 GMT -5 nowa said:

Mar 4, 2015 13:30:47 GMT -5 lala said:

Yes, the book suggests counting for stop behaviors not start behaviors.

Yea, my issue usually is I need her to doooo something. Refusal leads to tantrum. So how would 123 work there? I mean once the tantrum is started and I need her to stop whining? 123 stop whining?

First and foremost pick your battles. This is soooooooo hard. I have had many moments where I am like "why and I fighting this?"

Second pick your behavior. It's not going to change all at once if you are looking for obedience they can whine all they want. I whine in my head when I am doing something I don't want to do. DS still mutters under her breath at 8.

Third and this is the big one STOP TALKING they aren't listening anyway you are trying to make yourself feel better. I don't use 1,2,3 magic strictly I use a combination of a lot of things.

Me:"pick up your shoes"
Him: whine bitch and repeat the bitching over and over
Me: pick up your shoes or they are going in time out and you won't be able to wear them tomorrow. (Now I am done. I have told him what to do and told him his consequence)
Him: more whining
Me:1.......2....3 ( I place the shoes in time out and I am done)

This is very simplified. But it does work. I very rarely count anymore at all. My kids are far from perfect they are a work in progress like me;)

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Mar 4, 2015 13:25:30 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 4, 2015 12:57:12 GMT -5 Rainyday said:

Good question. TO for us is usually sitting in the bottom step but still in the same room. I guess it's more of just a cooling off period for a minute or two. My 5.5 yo is too old for TO, she understands consequences and she is typically a rule follower.
Getting sent to your your room is more of the old fashioned kind of punishment, "you sit up here and think about your behavior" sort of thing. We are a family of five so being sent to you room is missing out on family fun. We have sent each of them about 3x and they each also fell asleep up there one time. Seemingly, a nap was needed.
But the other 2 times it really has turned around the particular behavior for the long run. Not sayng my 3yo won't throw again but it and been about 3 weeks.

Yea I would consider that timeout. Glad it works for you. BTW no kid is too old for time out I still need them as an adult. If used properly they are a time for a person to regroup. My 8 year old even says "I need some time out" and will go to her room and listen to music and regroup.

I think we discussed it before but there is a difference in a punitive time out as a catch all for all inappropriate behaviors where they sit in a corner for x minutes for x age and letting a child self regulate by cooling off if their room. The latter isn't a time out (in the traditional sense of the word).

[andrewsgal]

Mar 4, 2015 13:52:27 GMT -5 Kcthepouchh8r said:

Mar 4, 2015 13:25:30 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Yea I would consider that timeout. Glad it works for you. BTW no kid is too old for time out I still need them as an adult. If used properly they are a time for a person to regroup. My 8 year old even says "I need some time out" and will go to her room and listen to music and regroup.

I think we discussed it before but there is a difference in a punitive time out as a catch all for all inappropriate behaviors where they sit in a corner for x minutes for x age and letting a child self regulate by cooling off if their room. The latter isn't a time out (in the traditional sense of the word).

Yep semantics. In the behavior world a time out is used to get yourself together.

[lala]

Mar 4, 2015 13:50:15 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 4, 2015 13:37:05 GMT -5 nowa said:

Yea, my issue usually is I need her to doooo something. Refusal leads to tantrum. So how would 123 work there? I mean once the tantrum is started and I need her to stop whining? 123 stop whining?

First and foremost pick your battles. This is soooooooo hard. I have had many moments where I am like "why and I fighting this?"

Second pick your behavior. It's not going to change all at once if you are looking for obedience they can whine all they want. I whine in my head when I am doing something I don't want to do. DS still mutters under her breath at 8.

Third and this is the big one STOP TALKING they aren't listening anyway you are trying to make yourself feel better. I don't use 1,2,3 magic strictly I use a combination of a lot of things.

Me:"pick up your shoes"
Him: whine bitch and repeat the bitching over and over
Me: pick up your shoes or they are going in time out and you won't be able to wear them tomorrow. (Now I am done. I have told him what to do and told him his consequence)
Him: more whining
Me:1.......2....3 ( I place the shoes in time out and I am done)

This is very simplified. But it does work. I very rarely count anymore at all. My kids are far from perfect they are a work in progress like me;)

This is similar to what I try to do. The 6 year old is pretty decent most of the time. I only started back to 123magic more strictly was to retrain myself to stop talking, stop explaining. I was making it worse. There was too much yelling and it wasn't working. And it is hard. That's why I try to choose my battles and set reasonable expectations.

[andrewsgal]

The not talking is the hardest part

[nowa]

Mar 4, 2015 13:58:50 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

The not talking is the hardest part

Yes, yes it is. And deciding which battles are worth fighting and when.

[lyingliarlies]

Mar 4, 2015 13:50:15 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 4, 2015 13:37:05 GMT -5 nowa said:

Yea, my issue usually is I need her to doooo something. Refusal leads to tantrum. So how would 123 work there? I mean once the tantrum is started and I need her to stop whining? 123 stop whining?

First and foremost pick your battles. This is soooooooo hard. I have had many moments where I am like "why and I fighting this?"

Second pick your behavior. It's not going to change all at once if you are looking for obedience they can whine all they want. I whine in my head when I am doing something I don't want to do. DS still mutters under her breath at 8.

Third and this is the big one STOP TALKING they aren't listening anyway you are trying to make yourself feel better. I don't use 1,2,3 magic strictly I use a combination of a lot of things.

Me:"pick up your shoes"
Him: whine bitch and repeat the bitching over and over
Me: pick up your shoes or they are going in time out and you won't be able to wear them tomorrow. (Now I am done. I have told him what to do and told him his consequence)
Him: more whining
Me:1.......2....3 ( I place the shoes in time out and I am done)

This is very simplified. But it does work. I very rarely count anymore at all. My kids are far from perfect they are a work in progress like me;)

Hehe I can take away anything & my kid doesn't care. In fact he'll tell me so "I don't care."

Pretty sure that at not even 4 he has the attitude of my teenage self. Shudder.

[mamaalysson]

Mar 4, 2015 13:50:15 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 4, 2015 13:37:05 GMT -5 nowa said:

Yea, my issue usually is I need her to doooo something. Refusal leads to tantrum. So how would 123 work there? I mean once the tantrum is started and I need her to stop whining? 123 stop whining?

First and foremost pick your battles. This is soooooooo hard. I have had many moments where I am like "why and I fighting this?"

Second pick your behavior. It's not going to change all at once if you are looking for obedience they can whine all they want. I whine in my head when I am doing something I don't want to do. DS still mutters under her breath at 8.

Third and this is the big one STOP TALKING they aren't listening anyway you are trying to make yourself feel better. I don't use 1,2,3 magic strictly I use a combination of a lot of things.

Me:"pick up your shoes"
Him: whine bitch and repeat the bitching over and over
Me: pick up your shoes or they are going in time out and you won't be able to wear them tomorrow. (Now I am done. I have told him what to do and told him his consequence)
Him: more whining
Me:1.......2....3 ( I place the shoes in time out and I am done)

This is very simplified. But it does work. I very rarely count anymore at all. My kids are far from perfect they are a work in progress like me;)

This is what we generally do, and it has been working really well.  Now that she is testing out more of this sassy, defiant behavior, I think I just get caught up in being pissed off at her attitude, and definitely get into lecture mode faster.  This is a good reminder that the simple counting and then I'm done works, she's just testing it more with her developing social (antisocial?) skills.

And nowa, I so very, very much feel your pain.  It is so unpredictable.  Somedays she is pretty great, and other days she is just set to blow at the tiniest thing.  We have had the hours long tantrum over me turning off Sesame Street too.  And I feel like when we have a day like that, it sets everyone on edge, and we're all reacting first, thinking later and just feeding off of each other in a really negative way.  When I can remember to do it, getting them outside for a walk or pulling out a messy art project usually helps.  But it's really hard to remember or even want to do that when she has been acting like a little tyrant and screaming that "I AM NOT YOUR DAUGHTER!!!!!!"  So hugs, wine, chocolate, and so much commiseration.

[Rainyday]

Yes AG, it is semantics. We all go do our own thing to re set or get ourselves together. But my the original "supernanny" definition of TO, my DD has grown out of that stage. She does not need to sit on the "naughty step" for misbehaving. She can have quiet time to regroup if she needs it. But like I said, she is a rule follower for the most part.
I have no problem telling my kids that I need a time out and shutting the door to my room or going out on my porch.

[andrewsgal]

Mar 4, 2015 14:03:27 GMT -5 lyingliarlies said:

Mar 4, 2015 13:50:15 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

First and foremost pick your battles. This is soooooooo hard. I have had many moments where I am like "why and I fighting this?"

Second pick your behavior. It's not going to change all at once if you are looking for obedience they can whine all they want. I whine in my head when I am doing something I don't want to do. DS still mutters under her breath at 8.

Third and this is the big one STOP TALKING they aren't listening anyway you are trying to make yourself feel better. I don't use 1,2,3 magic strictly I use a combination of a lot of things.

Me:"pick up your shoes"
Him: whine bitch and repeat the bitching over and over
Me: pick up your shoes or they are going in time out and you won't be able to wear them tomorrow. (Now I am done. I have told him what to do and told him his consequence)
Him: more whining
Me:1.......2....3 ( I place the shoes in time out and I am done)

This is very simplified. But it does work. I very rarely count anymore at all. My kids are far from perfect they are a work in progress like me;)

Hehe I can take away anything & my kid doesn't care. In fact he'll tell me so "I don't care."

Pretty sure that at not even 4 he has the attitude of my teenage self. Shudder.

Every kid has a currency every one. Unless they are a sociopath. So it's your job to figure out what that is. For my DS he has to wear tennis shoes to participate in PE so that's why this would work. Obviously if he hated PE it wouldn't work. So your job is to find your kids currency, by four you should really know it.

[lyingliarlies]

Mar 4, 2015 14:58:57 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 4, 2015 14:03:27 GMT -5 lyingliarlies said:

Hehe I can take away anything & my kid doesn't care. In fact he'll tell me so "I don't care."

Pretty sure that at not even 4 he has the attitude of my teenage self. Shudder.

Every kid has a currency every one. Unless they are a sociopath. So it's your job to figure out what that is. For my DS he has to wear tennis shoes to participate in PE so that's why this would work. Obviously if he hated PE it wouldn't work. So your job is to find your kids currency, by four you should really know it.

Nope. Believe me we have tried as I'm aware of the currency thing. So I guess he is a sociopath & we're shitty parents. At least his teachers feel he is remorseful, gives me some hope.

[andrewsgal]

Mar 4, 2015 15:08:33 GMT -5 lyingliarlies said:

Mar 4, 2015 14:58:57 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Every kid has a currency every one. Unless they are a sociopath. So it's your job to figure out what that is. For my DS he has to wear tennis shoes to participate in PE so that's why this would work. Obviously if he hated PE it wouldn't work. So your job is to find your kids currency, by four you should really know it.

Nope. Believe me we have tried as I'm aware of the currency thing. So I guess he is a sociopath & we're shitty parents. At least his teachers feel he is remorseful, gives me some hope.

So he likes nothing? Interesting.

[lala]

There's no toy, show, outing, fun thing that he would be upset to miss, lying liars? There has to be something.

[lyingliarlies]

Mar 4, 2015 15:12:39 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 4, 2015 15:08:33 GMT -5 lyingliarlies said:

Nope. Believe me we have tried as I'm aware of the currency thing. So I guess he is a sociopath & we're shitty parents. At least his teachers feel he is remorseful, gives me some hope.

So he likes nothing? Interesting.

Oh he likes lots of stuff, activities etc. Just doesn't care when I take them away. Will tell me to take more even.

Shit, I caught him playing well yesterday morning, gave him a reward (just a window cling from a set that I had told him days earlier that he could earn) & told him why, & THEN he started acting up.

I'd really love to send him to live for a couple of days with the EI ladies who found him so "delightful."

[lyingliarlies]

Mar 4, 2015 15:15:46 GMT -5 lala said:

There's no toy, show, outing, fun thing that he would be upset to miss, lying liars? There has to be something.

We can be going to his absolute favorite place & he will give me trouble if he's inclined. So no. I've tried tour timer trick & it's hit or miss, certainly an improvement, but obviously doesn't work for many behaviors.

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Mar 4, 2015 15:25:22 GMT -5 lyingliarlies said:

Mar 4, 2015 15:15:46 GMT -5 lala said:

There's no toy, show, outing, fun thing that he would be upset to miss, lying liars? There has to be something.

We can be going to his absolute favorite place & he will give me trouble if he's inclined. So no. I've tried tour timer trick & it's hit or miss, certainly an improvement, but obviously doesn't work for many behaviors.

Probably should just go ahead and ignore my dumb suggestion but you have followed through on not taking him to the favorite place numerous times, right? My oldest went through a phase where he would taunt me about not caring....but then when he actually started losing the privilege he eventually gave it up. 

Also throwing something out there-discussing expectations of behavior before you go somewhere helps here. Was he in ei for a language delay? You may find visuals to be more helpful than talking.

[andrewsgal]

A kid saying they don't care is usually a sign they do.

[fancynewbeesly]

We explain A LOT in our house. Not necessarily in the thick of things, but during the day. But for the most part Reese does better with rational, logical explanations. She questions choices, but when we tell her why it is a choice--then she is more agreeable.

We also have TONS of set routines. It helps that she is fairly independent. She gets up around 6-6:30, she can't come out of her room to get us until her clock turns green. Before she comes to us, she gets herself COMPLETELY dressed for the day. Shoes/socks/etc. She choses her own clothes. All of her winter/cold season clothes are where she can reach them. We don't set foot downstairs until she is dressed and ready. (As am i). We usually go downstairs by 7 and we leave the house at about 7:45; so that gives her 45 minutes to fool around with breakfast.

Dinner has been a BIG issue for her lately. She only wants fruits and vegetables for dinner. Not a lot of fat or protein. This afternoon I explained to her that she needs to eat some type of protein at dinner time--whether it is chicken, beef, pork, or even almond butter. I told her that in the morning she gets "wiggly" (dizzy in her words), because she isn't eating enough protein at dinner. (and strawberries/carrots and broccoli aren't enough to keep her full overnight). At dinner time, she ate some chicken without complaining--so I am calling that a win.

She definitely has that attitude coming out though.

[andrewsgal]

I think I need to clarify, I am not saying don't talk or explain things to your child. I am saying don't do it in the heat of a behavior.