Dude where have you been? You could if ended this BS yesterday;)
It was 66 here yesterday! I went on a 3 hour play date/picnic at the park and then went out to an early dinner of lobster ravioli by the water with dh. No bumping on beautiful Sundays!!! better late than never though right? Lol
Also the recommended, developmentally appropriate curriculum for kids 3-5 is play based. I'm sorry a 4 year old has no place in a classroom for 7 hours with a 15 minute recess. Regardless of academics playing in the critical first 5 years of brain development is critical to the overall development of the child and their well being. www.sonoma.edu/tcs/play_key_to_success.pdf
I started school at 4 years old without even being able to speak English (we had just moved to Australia a couple months prior) and as someone who only ended up with two college degrees, I can honestly say it totally ruined my life.
Except the peer reviewed studies KPouch posted and the fact the the studies NC posted prove my point? I am missing the nonsensical
Except that initially this post seemed to indicate that you all found studies lacking and favored anecdotal evidence; then you said that nursecramer had no experience, after which she outlined her credentials in this area, and then was subsequently shouted down as "playing the teacher card"; now we're back to "she has no experience." And now that someone has found some studies, suddenly statistical evidence is of utmost importance.
It's all over the place here and there is no consistent viewpoint.
Pretty sure my viewpoint hasn't changed. Kindergarten is not the best choice for a typical developing 4 year old. There needs to be a national cutoff ensuring kids are 5 before entering K.
Pretty sure my viewpoint hasn't changed. Kindergarten is not the best choice for a typical developing 4 year old. There needs to be a national cutoff ensuring kids are 5 before entering K.
Your viewpoint may not have changed, but your method sure has. You in particular seem defensive in the extreme any time someone disagrees with you; it makes debating useless, but hilarious.
Pretty sure my viewpoint hasn't changed. Kindergarten is not the best choice for a typical developing 4 year old. There needs to be a national cutoff ensuring kids are 5 before entering K.
I wonder why American kids are so disadvantaged compared to 4 year olds in other countries who start Kindy?
You know, since other countries who allow kids to start at 4 are so far behind academically and have such low standards of achievement.
I'm dying that the best solution is blanket age requirement instead of allowing educators or parents to discern when a child is ready to start based on their individual ability.
LOL.....is "compulsory" on the list of words too big for you to understand along with antidote?
That is the age kids "should be in school by", not the age they have to be to start.
3. England: Children reach compulsory school age at the start of the school term following their fifth birthday, which may be in September, January or April. If they turn five in September to March, they will start in the reception class (ISCED 0). Most children enter primary school before they reach compulsory school age, most commonly in the September following their fourth birthday and thus spend a full year in the reception class.
4 Scotland: Compulsory education starts at age five, although many children start at four because schools have a single intake at the beginning of the school year. Local authorities set a cut-off date (normally 1 March) defining the cohort of children eligible to start school at the beginning of the following school year (normally in August). This means that Scottish children do not usually start school below the age of four years and six months.
11 Netherlands: Schooling is compulsory from age five, and ISCED 1 commences at age 6, but virtually all children start school at four.
So four countries out of that whole list support your point?
Post by andrewsgal on Apr 13, 2015 11:23:10 GMT -5
When did we begin talking preschool? Everyone on this board had kids that start preschool before 5. In fact I am one of the biggest proponents of a play based preschool starting as young as parents feel comfortable.
Post by Kcthepouchh8r on Apr 13, 2015 11:23:26 GMT -5
I started school at 4 as a kid reading at a 3rd grade level and eventually tested with an iq of 130. I was an a student, went to college, worked as a hr director before kids, and am not a serial killer/don't kick puppies for fun.
I don't think it was in my best interests to start school at 4. I also was 13 drinking with hs seniors and starting college as an immature 17 year old starting college which was in no way a positive thing academically or emotionally--I just wasn't ready. I had a tough time making friends in school because my interests were of a younger kid. I was a 7th grader still interested in cabbage patch dolls trying to keep up with teens.
Pretty sure my viewpoint hasn't changed. Kindergarten is not the best choice for a typical developing 4 year old. There needs to be a national cutoff ensuring kids are 5 before entering K.
I wonder why American kids are so disadvantaged compared to 4 year olds in other countries who start Kindy?
You know, since other countries who allow kids to start at 4 are so far behind academically and have such low standards of achievement.
I'm dying that the best solution is blanket age requirement instead of allowing educators or parents to discern when a child is ready to start based on their individual ability.
Maybe the determination should be based on being able to identify proper meanings of words.... like antidote?
You do realize the academic powerhouses of the world start school at 7 and those trailing behind start at 4/5, right? Oh wait you didn't...
Preschool when done correctly is fabulous and necessary. I am all for preschool all of my kids started or will start a play based state certified preschool at 2.5.
I am so confused as to why we are discussing early childhood education in other countries. Is anyone here not a proponent for preschool prior to kindergarten? Which would start at 2, 3, 4 whatever? I would love it if we had universal pre-k & preschool everywhere, but we don't.
In Sweden, 80% of children attend preschool between the ages of one and six.
And look how horrible their standard of living is Lucy! Not to mention the failure of the education system as a whole.
No one is arguing against preschool here. You will never find a time on this board or our old one where people preach against kids in a good play based preschool.
Those are generally play based vs academic bases though. Kids from 3-5 should be in some play based program for social/emotional skills as well as learning the classroom rules. A 5 year old has no place in a 1st grade classroom.
I am saying your list of schools that "don't start" until certain ages is both misleading and, in some cases, incorrect entirely. Moreover, you don't know what the quality of these preschool-level educations are or how they compare to US standards of kindergarten; they may be more play-based, or they may be more academic. I can tell you with certainty that French schools are entirely academic, from maternelle onward. To nonchalantly claim that "preschool" is a different animal across the board is a little silly. And grossly incorrect.
And I can tell you for a fact Finland's preschool programs are far from academic based. We were talking kinder here. Although I don't think there is anything wrong with a play based preschool that also incorporates academics.
I started school at 4 as a kid reading at a 3rd grade level and eventually tested with an iq of 130. I was an a student, went to college, worked as a hr director before kids, and am not a serial killer/don't kick puppies for fun.
I don't think it was in my best interests to start school at 4. I also was 13 drinking with hs seniors and starting college as an immature 17 year old starting college which was in no way a positive thing academically or emotionally--I just wasn't ready. I had a tough time making friends in school because my interests were of a younger kid. I was a 7th grader still interested in cabbage patch dolls trying to keep up with teens.
Plenty of kids who start at age 5 have these same problems too though. Hell, plenty of college kids are still immature at age 22!
I don't think starting at 4 can be automatically assumed to have caused this.
I get that-my youngest will start kindergarten as an immature child of five years, 8 months. Certainly being 1-2 years younger than peers is in no way helpful though.
You do realize the academic powerhouses of the world start school at 7 and those trailing behind start at 4/5, right? Oh wait you didn't...
There is also a whole host of other factors that go into schooling in countries like Finland that facilitate education beyond just age, such as the massive amounts of support given in terms of daycare and other free resources available to families in general.
And having the compulsory age at 7 does not mean every child is waiting until age 7 to start.
I agree. This might shock you but I am a huge believer of universal preK and a million other social programs. Our education system fails in many ways starting very young.
And I can tell you for a fact Finland's preschool programs are far from academic based. We were talking kinder here. Although I don't think there is anything wrong with a play based preschool that also incorporates academics.
Hence, my point. Stating definitively that other countries are doing something better by not introducing "compulsory" schooling until later negates the fact that many countries DO have a socially compulsory component of schooling that begins much earlier. What the quality is of that preschool is unknown and varies wildly from country to country.
Ok I can get behind that. I still stand behind the fact that a 5 year old is more developmentally ready for kinder than a typically developing 4 year old at least in the United States. Especially with out lack of good affordable preschool programs.
Except the peer reviewed studies KPouch posted and the fact the the studies NC posted prove my point? I am missing the nonsensical
Except that initially this post seemed to indicate that you all found studies lacking and favored anecdotal evidence; then you said that nursecramer had no experience, after which she outlined her credentials in this area, and then was subsequently shouted down as "playing the teacher card"; now we're back to "she has no experience." And now that someone has found some studies, suddenly statistical evidence is of utmost importance.
It's all over the place here and there is no consistent viewpoint.
Just to be clear, she has no credentials in the area. Middle/high school and higher ed are COMPLETELY different than ECE. Andplusalso, no one favored anecdotal evidence. I gave my opinion as a professional in the area of ECE based on years of research and experience. That is not anecdotal. Andplusalsofurthermore, no one "suddenly found" some studies. They always existed, I found about a half dozen of them last night. But there is absolutely no sense in trying to have a debate about someone's professional opinion on the appropriateness of instruction for specific ages when that person has absolutely no education or experience in that field. Anyone can find any number of studies to back up any point (which has all ready been pointed out).
I should just walk away but I really can't stand it when someone who has no fucking clue what they're talking about wants to tell me how I do my job badly and they know so much more because I FOUND A STUDY THAT SAYS YOU ARE JUST CONFUSED AND USE POOR TEACHING METHODS THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH MY SNOWFLAKE HE COULD DO CALCULUS IF YOU WERE A BETTER TEACHER!!1!11!
Just to be clear, she has no credentials in the area. Middle/high school and higher ed are COMPLETELY different than ECE. Andplusalso, no one favored anecdotal evidence. I gave my opinion as a professional in the area of ECE based on years of research and experience. That is not anecdotal. Andplusalsofurthermore, no one "suddenly found" some studies. They always existed, I found about a half dozen of them last night. But there is absolutely no sense in trying to have a debate about someone's professional opinion on the appropriateness of instruction for specific ages when that person has absolutely no education or experience in that field. Anyone can find any number of studies to back up any point (which has all ready been pointed out).
I should just walk away but I really can't stand it when someone who has no fucking clue what they're talking about wants to tell me how I do my job badly and they know so much more because I FOUND A STUDY THAT SAYS YOU ARE JUST CONFUSED AND USE POOR TEACHING METHODS THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH MY SNOWFLAKE HE COULD DO CALCULUS IF YOU WERE A BETTER TEACHER!!1!11!
Oh honey. You need to calm down. Also, "already" is one word.
Bless your heart.
Remember when we were saying the board was boring now that the crazies don't drive by? I take it back.