WRT 2008, I don't think anyone was surprised by Obama winning over McCain. Obama over HRC, absolutely shocking. But after the Bush=Satan himself, no Republican was going to win the presidency.
I don't know - Bush won a second term after a LOT of anger towards him regarding the Iraq war. I was pretty shocked about that.
Incidentally, I was just looking back at some articles about the election and I had forgotten that in 2004, one of Bush's top campaign issues was expanding home ownership, particularly among minorities, and less regulation among mortgage lending. Oops.
I think 2012 was a gentler chance for them to make some changes but they've wasted the opportunities they had to gain some credibility that they care about fiscal policy and are actually in Washington to accomplish something.
Instead it seems a lot saw 2012 as evidence that a more moderate R cannot win when they should have seen that moving to the right to pander to the loud far right annihilates their chance in the general. The other problem is that anyone who is in Congress is seen as useless and has also been pandering with various ridiculous votes and shenanigans. So there is seriously no one who doesn't look pretty far right that has name recognition.
I don't know - maybe it's naive of me or perhaps overly cynical - but I think we have a combo of true believers and people who care about being elected, period. So they pander and have been pandering and there's no dissent to this nonsense. Even ones who don't believe go along because the party and success/reelection has become so tied to this party line with the primary challenges (ahem Dick Lugar).
So, so, so much to the bolded. I cannot bold it strongly enough!
As for the bottom part-- that's why the actual Republican party needs to kick the Christian Right out. Stop making them the base, and you don't have to pander and plunge off the edge of Right ridiculousness, and you can talk as a true believer Republican. Make a new base. This is the perfect time for it: the Millennials are the perfect audience for it.
I think 2012 was a gentler chance for them to make some changes but they've wasted the opportunities they had to gain some credibility that they care about fiscal policy and are actually in Washington to accomplish something.
Instead it seems a lot saw 2012 as evidence that a more moderate R cannot win when they should have seen that moving to the right to pander to the loud far right annihilates their chance in the general. The other problem is that anyone who is in Congress is seen as useless and has also been pandering with various ridiculous votes and shenanigans. So there is seriously no one who doesn't look pretty far right that has name recognition.
I don't know - maybe it's naive of me or perhaps overly cynical - but I think we have a combo of true believers and people who care about being elected, period. So they pander and have been pandering and there's no dissent to this nonsense. Even ones who don't believe go along because the party and success/reelection has become so tied to this party line with the primary challenges (ahem Dick Lugar).
So, so, so much to the bolded. I cannot bold it strongly enough!
As for the bottom part-- that's why the actual Republican party needs to kick the Christian Right out. Stop making them the base, and you don't have to pander and plunge off the edge of Right ridiculousness, and you can talk as a true believer Republican. Make a new base. This is the perfect time for it: the Millennials are the perfect audience for it.
I think another issue is that anyone with any name recognition who might be a possible candidate now has a record of supporting the far right even if they were to pivot and recognize that it's not a winning strategy nationally.
Basically even if they do recognize the issues, the bench of people the right age and with the right credentials is virtually nonexistent thanks to the swell of support with the Tea Party types. Like their younger crowd that's out there being recognized is more tied to the TP/religious right base than the old dudes like Alexander.
So, so, so much to the bolded. I cannot bold it strongly enough!
As for the bottom part-- that's why the actual Republican party needs to kick the Christian Right out. Stop making them the base, and you don't have to pander and plunge off the edge of Right ridiculousness, and you can talk as a true believer Republican. Make a new base. This is the perfect time for it: the Millennials are the perfect audience for it.
I think another issue is that anyone with any name recognition who might be a possible candidate now has a record of supporting the far right even if they were to pivot and recognize that it's not a winning strategy nationally.
Basically even if they do recognize the issues, the bench of people the right age and with the right credentials is virtually nonexistent thanks to the swell of support with the Tea Party types. Like their younger crowd that's out there being recognized is more tied to the TP/religious right base than the old dudes like Alexander.
Fox News has actually been terrible for the Republican Party. Candidates can get easy airtime if they do Murdock's dance. Great for name recognition. Not so great for appealing to anyone who finds Hannity repulsive.
Sure, the sane people can go on CNN, which is run by morons. MSNBC is a joke. So Fox it is.
I think another issue is that anyone with any name recognition who might be a possible candidate now has a record of supporting the far right even if they were to pivot and recognize that it's not a winning strategy nationally.
Basically even if they do recognize the issues, the bench of people the right age and with the right credentials is virtually nonexistent thanks to the swell of support with the Tea Party types. Like their younger crowd that's out there being recognized is more tied to the TP/religious right base than the old dudes like Alexander.
Fox News has actually been terrible for the Republican Party. Candidates can get easy airtime if they do Murdock's dance. Great for name recognition. Not so great for appealing to anyone who finds Hannity repulsive.
Sure, the sane people can go on CNN, which is run by morons. MSNBC is a joke. So Fox it is.
I was on my phone earlier, but meant to add something about how Fox News has made it worse, because it gives the crazies the exposure they want/need to keep their names in the public. THE WORST.
WRT 2008, I don't think anyone was surprised by Obama winning over McCain. Obama over HRC, absolutely shocking. But after the Bush=Satan himself, no Republican was going to win the presidency.
I don't know - Bush won a second term after a LOT of anger towards him regarding the Iraq war. I was pretty shocked about that.
Bush won in 2004 because Karl Rove drummed up fear of gay marriage and got that issue on the ballot in key swing states, when evangelicals stormed the polls like never before and never since.
In today's republican party? I don't think so. At least not on a national level for all the reasons ESF has articulated. There may be someone at a local level somewhere in the country, especially if it's in a generally liberal area. But I think the party has made it clear that they're anti-abortion and veering well into anti-contraception territory. As in, actually have done something about that, not just used it as a rallying cry.
Sure, there have been Rs in the past who not only wouldn't terrify me but would get my support, as mominatrix has said.
To quote my H, to whom I of course read ESF's posts, "Today, the only conservative I'd consider voting for is HRC."
So @kateaggie - who do you like & who do you think should be a the nominee? Do you like any of your local/state Republicans?
Texas Republicans? LOL. They are why I left the party.
Jeb Bush intrigues me. I got to hear some of a speech he gave to my DH'S company (please don't quote), and I liked what I heard. And I don't see the problem with "another" Bush. They are all different, and if he shakes out as the best, then I don't give a shit what his name is.
The Ohio governor is another, as is Sandoval in Nevada, and Martinez in New Mexico.
I likely would've voted for HRC, until the email bullshit.
Would you listen to someone who lived in jeb Bush world? I think his reputation is far different than reality. I'm speaking in only the narrow world of education, but that should be indicative of how much the isa disconnect of speech vs reality.
I likely would've voted for HRC, until the email bullshit.
So you are more aligned with her positions and beliefs than all the the potential GOP nominees, but the email faux-scandal changed your mind??? But but..BENGHAZI! lol I think it was a poor decision on her part & a silly distraction, but I don't see it as a major reason to change your mind.
Now, I'm not really a HRC fan for a number of reasons, but it doesn't appear the Dems are going to get any choices this round. I've always had issues with her leadership & judgement, and really wish some other dems would step into the primary.
I likely would've voted for HRC, until the email bullshit.
So you are more aligned with her positions and beliefs than all the the potential GOP nominees, but the email faux-scandal changed your mind??? But but..BENGHAZI! lol I think it was a poor decision on her part & a silly distraction, but I don't see it as a major reason to change your mind.
Now, I'm not really a HRC fan for a number of reasons, but it doesn't appear the Dems are going to get any choices this round. I've always had issues with her leadership & judgement, and really wish some other dems would step into the primary.
I keep thinking O'Malley has officially declared...but he hasn't has he? What in the world is he waiting for?
I likely would've voted for HRC, until the email bullshit.
So you are more aligned with her positions and beliefs than all the the potential GOP nominees, but the email faux-scandal changed your mind??? But but..BENGHAZI! lol I think it was a poor decision on her part & a silly distraction, but I don't see it as a major reason to change your mind.
Now, I'm not really a HRC fan for a number of reasons, but it doesn't appear the Dems are going to get any choices this round. I've always had issues with her leadership & judgement, and really wish some other dems would step into the primary.
Well, great for you. And I don't know who I'm voting for yet. It's more than a year away. I will likely vote 3rd party. And no, my beliefs don't fully line up with any candidate, including HRC. But integrity matters to me, and it seems to be a missing quality in her. Just like I do with any candidate, I weigh the pros and cons. And that's a huge strike against her.
And just a quick tack on--I have the luxury of living in a state where my vote for anyone other than a R is my opportunity to make a statement. And as it stands right now, my vote will be in protest of the two crap parties we have now. If I were still in Nevada, I possibly would vote for the R or D, whichever I thought sucked less.
Post by cookiemdough on Apr 23, 2015 8:07:59 GMT -5
I don't know, the email thing pissed me off far more than Benghazi. It was shady as all get out. So if there was a viable candidate alternative for D's I would probably go for it.
So you are more aligned with her positions and beliefs than all the the potential GOP nominees, but the email faux-scandal changed your mind??? But but..BENGHAZI! lol I think it was a poor decision on her part & a silly distraction, but I don't see it as a major reason to change your mind.
Now, I'm not really a HRC fan for a number of reasons, but it doesn't appear the Dems are going to get any choices this round. I've always had issues with her leadership & judgement, and really wish some other dems would step into the primary.
I keep thinking O'Malley has officially declared...but he hasn't has he? What in the world is he waiting for?
He hasn't yet. But he was in Iowa laying out his vision for the future like two weeks ago. The only reason why he'd be in Iowa is because he's running. Or gunning for VP.
I don't know, the email thing pissed me off far more than Benghazi. It was shady as all get out. So if there was a viable candidate alternative for D's I would probably go for it.
For me, it basically reminded me of everything I loathe about the Clintons which is that they are shady as shit and think they can get away with whatever they want to do. It drives me up a wall.
Like Katie, I have the luxury of living in a state that won't be competitive, so unless someone really wows me, I'm likely voting 3rd party.
So @kateaggie - who do you like & who do you think should be a the nominee? Do you like any of your local/state Republicans?
Texas Republicans? LOL. They are why I left the party.
Jeb Bush intrigues me. I got to hear some of a speech he gave to my DH'S company (please don't quote), and I liked what I heard. And I don't see the problem with "another" Bush. They are all different, and if he shakes out as the best, then I don't give a shit what his name is.
The Ohio governor is another, as is Sandoval in Nevada, and Martinez in New Mexico.
I likely would've voted for HRC, until the email bullshit.
Paul and Cruz make my eyes roll.
None of them "terrify" me.
I guess this is an issue of perspective.
Ted Cruz shut down the government because he was Lucy moving the football. He got basically everything he wanted and then was like, "Nope, I want more. NO MORE GOVERNMENT!"
That someone would exercise such incredibly poor judgment and would use federal workers as a political pawn like that does terrify me. My livelihood depends on the federal government operating. My city was a mess while the government shut down. That is a pretty unforgivable offense to me.
Someone who thinks shutting down the government is NBD and has no regrets about being the key player in the shutdown has no business holding public office, IMO. Certainly not the presidency. He read Green Eggs and Ham on the floor of the Senate. Talk about looking to actions - I just do not see how that demonstrates the temperament necessary to dealing with foreign governments and international crises. (FWIW, I totally get why people find HRC to be shady with the email thing - I am pretty disillusioned with her, trust me, I get it.)
Texas Republicans? LOL. They are why I left the party.
Jeb Bush intrigues me. I got to hear some of a speech he gave to my DH'S company (please don't quote), and I liked what I heard. And I don't see the problem with "another" Bush. They are all different, and if he shakes out as the best, then I don't give a shit what his name is.
The Ohio governor is another, as is Sandoval in Nevada, and Martinez in New Mexico.
I likely would've voted for HRC, until the email bullshit.
Paul and Cruz make my eyes roll.
None of them "terrify" me.
I guess this is an issue of perspective.
Ted Cruz shut down the government because he was Lucy moving the football. He got basically everything he wanted and then was like, "Nope, I want more. NO MORE GOVERNMENT!"
That someone would exercise such incredibly poor judgment and would use federal workers as a political pawn like that does terrify me. My livelihood depends on the federal government operating. My city was a mess while the government shut down. That is a pretty unforgivable offense to me.
Someone who thinks shutting down the government is NBD and has no regrets about being the key player in the shutdown has no business holding public office, IMO. Certainly not the presidency. He read Green Eggs and Ham on the floor of the Senate. Talk about looking to actions - I just do not see how that demonstrates the temperament necessary to dealing with foreign governments and international crises. (FWIW, I totally get why people find HRC to be shady with the email thing - I am pretty disillusioned with her, trust me, I get it.)
And again, Ted Cruz would never, ever get my vote. I think he sucks, I think he's an idiot, and I don't think he's going to be the nominee. So he doesn't scare me in the least bit. I don't even think he's worth discussing. Ted Cruz Sucks seems to be a unity horse.
I don't know, the email thing pissed me off far more than Benghazi. It was shady as all get out. So if there was a viable candidate alternative for D's I would probably go for it.
For me, it basically reminded me of everything I loathe about the Clintons which is that they are shady as shit and think they can get away with whatever they want to do. It drives me up a wall.
Ditto this. If you already liked/disliked the Clintons, I wouldn't think this would change your mind. again- it was poor judgement & bad optics at the very least, but to me it reveals (reconfirmed??) a deeper character flaw in her judgement & transparency (which I already thought).
So you are more aligned with her positions and beliefs than all the the potential GOP nominees, but the email faux-scandal changed your mind??? But but..BENGHAZI! lol I think it was a poor decision on her part & a silly distraction, but I don't see it as a major reason to change your mind.
Now, I'm not really a HRC fan for a number of reasons, but it doesn't appear the Dems are going to get any choices this round. I've always had issues with her leadership & judgement, and really wish some other dems would step into the primary.
I keep thinking O'Malley has officially declared...but he hasn't has he? What in the world is he waiting for?
hillary to ask him to be her runningmate.
Why is thr email a faux-scandal? Unless transparency is not necessary in your world? Maybe it is bush/obamatransparency definition?
For me, it basically reminded me of everything I loathe about the Clintons which is that they are shady as shit and think they can get away with whatever they want to do. It drives me up a wall.
Ditto this. If you already liked/disliked the Clintons, I wouldn't think this would change your mind. again- it was poor judgement & bad optics at the very least, but to me it reveals (reconfirmed??) a deeper character flaw in her judgement & transparency (which I already thought).
thank goodness. I was worried that people thought it was aok. Yes, her flaws, including being too hawkish, scare me.
And, vindictiveness worries me about omalley. ::shivers::
Texas Republicans? LOL. They are why I left the party.
Jeb Bush intrigues me. I got to hear some of a speech he gave to my DH'S company (please don't quote), and I liked what I heard. And I don't see the problem with "another" Bush. They are all different, and if he shakes out as the best, then I don't give a shit what his name is.
The Ohio governor is another, as is Sandoval in Nevada, and Martinez in New Mexico.
I likely would've voted for HRC, until the email bullshit.
Paul and Cruz make my eyes roll.
None of them "terrify" me.
I guess this is an issue of perspective.
Ted Cruz shut down the government because he was Lucy moving the football. He got basically everything he wanted and then was like, "Nope, I want more. NO MORE GOVERNMENT!"
That someone would exercise such incredibly poor judgment and would use federal workers as a political pawn like that does terrify me. My livelihood depends on the federal government operating. My city was a mess while the government shut down. That is a pretty unforgivable offense to me.
Someone who thinks shutting down the government is NBD and has no regrets about being the key player in the shutdown has no business holding public office, IMO. Certainly not the presidency. He read Green Eggs and Ham on the floor of the Senate. Talk about looking to actions - I just do not see how that demonstrates the temperament necessary to dealing with foreign governments and international crises. (FWIW, I totally get why people find HRC to be shady with the email thing - I am pretty disillusioned with her, trust me, I get it.)
I have voted against my assclown house representative for his efforts during the government shutdown at every opportunity (primary, and then general). I also send him irritated mail occasionally, because I am still so irritated over his shutdown behavior. His interviews pissed me off so much - not only are a decent number of people in his district employed by the national lab (DOE funded, run by a non profit), his district includes a NATIONAL PARK. It was shutdown during PEAK SEASON. And that fucker was on the news being all, "well we have to do what we need to do! the shutdown is great!" Fuck him. VERY MUCH.
I also hate Ted Cruz because he is an asshole and an idiot.
But he still doesn't terrify me, because he's not going to be elected. He might be the nominee (though I doubt it), but no way does he win the general. For him to even scare me, he'd need to have a real chance of being elected president. I have rivers and oceans of disdain and hate for him, but no fear. Our livelihood also depends on the federal government, but I guess I don't fear shutdowns or people who might force them - it is just a possibility that could happen and would affect us. It just fills me with hulk smash rage, especially over something so fucking dumb.
Why is thr email a faux-scandal? Unless transparency is not necessary in your world? Maybe it is bush/obamatransparency definition?
Ehh...I guess in my mind it's doesn't rise (yet??) to the level of criminal activity?? It was a mistake & poor judgement, and it still may blow up into something bigger if it comes out that she intentionally destroyed more documents with an ulterior motive.
I also hate Ted Cruz because he is an asshole and an idiot.
But he still doesn't terrify me, because he's not going to be elected. He might be the nominee (though I doubt it), but no way does he win the general. For him to even scare me, he'd need to have a real chance of being elected president.
But I guess, to me, he DID get elected, even if only to the Senate, it's still one of the most powerful elected positions in our country. And look how much chaos & harm he did there. Him even having a platform to threaten & bully people, and share his insane ideas about refusing to cooperate (IE GOVERN!) is harmful to our democracy.
I also hate Ted Cruz because he is an asshole and an idiot.
But he still doesn't terrify me, because he's not going to be elected. He might be the nominee (though I doubt it), but no way does he win the general. For him to even scare me, he'd need to have a real chance of being elected president.
But I guess, to me, he DID get elected, even if only to the Senate, it's still one of the most powerful elected positions in our country. And look how much chaos & harm he did there. Him even having a platform to threaten & bully people, and share his insane ideas about refusing to cooperate (IE GOVERN!) is harmful to our democracy.
Not only that, but in the second most populous state! I'm not dumb enough to assume that everyone from Texas loves Cruz (obviously...last time mamatacos visited, I think we made it an hour before we got an anti-Cruz rant). But it's pretty mind-boggling to me.
I don't think Ted Cruz will win the general election, but I agree with ESF that he will go farther than a lot of us are giving him credit for. And the fact that so many people are willing to support someone who is so clearly unfit to lead the country IS terrifying to me!