Let's pretend this isn't JT. If this guy shows up for a tech job interview, no one is going to ding him on attire.
Yeah....but I also see a sport jacket, collared shirt and chinos. Its really a stretch to compare this outfit to the one she interviewed in. I said above that I agree that women are judged more harshly on their appearances, but I don't know if this is the best example. Now, if she were wearing a red blazer, a black pencil skirt and button down shirt and they were criticizing her, then yeah, I would agree with you.
Let's pretend this isn't JT. If this guy shows up for a tech job interview, no one is going to ding him on attire.
Yeah....but I also see a sport jacket, collared shirt and chinos. Its really a stretch to compare this outfit to the one she interviewed in. I said above that I agree that women are judged more harshly on their appearances, but I don't know if this is the best example. Now, if she were wearing a red blazer, a black pencil skirt and button down shirt and they were criticizing her, then yeah, I would agree with you.
They are both in 3 piece business casual attire. I think it's comparable.
Let's pretend this isn't JT. If this guy shows up for a tech job interview, no one is going to ding him on attire.
This is about 50 times nicer than what most men show up wearing when they interview for software engineering positions at my job. No one has ever commented on what they come in wearing. No one would have batted an eye at what she came in wearing here.
Yeah....but I also see a sport jacket, collared shirt and chinos. Its really a stretch to compare this outfit to the one she interviewed in. I said above that I agree that women are judged more harshly on their appearances, but I don't know if this is the best example. Now, if she were wearing a red blazer, a black pencil skirt and button down shirt and they were criticizing her, then yeah, I would agree with you.
They are both in 3 piece business casual attire. I think it's comparable.
Even if I give the first part (which I'm not really on board with - skater skirt and a tight tee are standard business casual? Says who? which business? Is this the west coast speaking?) I think you're going to be the cheese that stands alone on the bolded. Not all three pieces are alike.
For one thing, a drapey cardigan is EASILY several notches below sport coat on the universal professional rating system. (that should totally be a thing)
This is the closest male equivalent I could find on a quick google image search. Ill-fitting and sloppy, just like hers. All he needs is a bright periwinkle bag and a rip in his pants.
Let's pretend this isn't JT. If this guy shows up for a tech job interview, no one is going to ding him on attire.
This is about 50 times nicer than what most men show up wearing when they interview for software engineering positions at my job. No one has ever commented on what they come in wearing. No one would have batted an eye at what she came in wearing here.
The young lady is trying to get sympathy for being a victim of sexism.
However, it seems to me as if she is a giant poster child for being unaware of her own privilege. She had the opportunity to receive a high-quality education. Since she is so far into her degree program, I believe that she was gifted with intelligence and that she had intellectually stimulating experiences when she was a child. However, she waltzed into that job interview on her own timetable and assumed that she would get the job. Then she made a spectacle of herself on Facebook. She acted as if the world owed her this job, and that she was a victim because she didn't get the job.
I'm guessing she's also never been turned down for a job before. When the sum of your experience is being a camp counselor in high school and working jobs on campus part time, well...
With a hole in his pants? I don't know about that.
A hole how big? It wasnt apparent from her photo that she has a hole. And are we talking about a hole in her tights? Holes in tights are easier to get than whopping cough in Marin County. Maybe she got it while getting out of her car on the way in. Bottom line: women are judged way way way harder than men when it comes to attire.
I agree, not because I wouldn't notice or judge a guy who was dressed too casually, but because women are treated differently. With men, I think the assumption is either that they are really confident and therefore dismiss dressing in a suit as something that's an unnecessary relic of another era (and wow, what a go-getter attitude!) or that the poor guy is just clueless and doesn't know how to dress himself. No one ever taught him, and he's probably not observant, so it's not his fault. Women, though we tend to have many more clothing choices than men and more "levels" of clothing, IMO, are judged more harshly. They always should have known better.
A hole how big? It wasnt apparent from her photo that she has a hole. And are we talking about a hole in her tights? Holes in tights are easier to get than whopping cough in Marin County. Maybe she got it while getting out of her car on the way in. Bottom line: women are judged way way way harder than men when it comes to attire.
I agree, not because I wouldn't notice or judge a guy who was dressed too casually, but because women are treated differently. With men, I think the assumption is either that they are really confident and therefore dismiss dressing in a suit as something that's an unnecessary relic of another era (and wow, what a go-getter attitude!) or that the poor guy is just clueless and doesn't know how to dress himself. No one ever taught him, and he's probably not observant, so it's not his fault. Women, though we tend to have many more clothing choices than men and more "levels" of clothing, IMO, are judged more harshly. They always should have known better.
I totally agree with this.
I just think this woman is a terrible post child for this totally valid issue. Because the way she was dressed wasn't the bottom line of this particular situation given all the other details.
This is the closest male equivalent I could find on a quick google image search. Ill-fitting and sloppy, just like hers. All he needs is a bright periwinkle bag and a rip in his pants.
I agree, not because I wouldn't notice or judge a guy who was dressed too casually, but because women are treated differently. With men, I think the assumption is either that they are really confident and therefore dismiss dressing in a suit as something that's an unnecessary relic of another era (and wow, what a go-getter attitude!) or that the poor guy is just clueless and doesn't know how to dress himself. No one ever taught him, and he's probably not observant, so it's not his fault. Women, though we tend to have many more clothing choices than men and more "levels" of clothing, IMO, are judged more harshly. They always should have known better.
I totally agree with this.
I just think this woman is a terrible post child for this totally valid issue. Because the way she was dressed wasn't the bottom line of this particular situation given all the other details.
And I agree with this too.
She wasn't hired for other reasons. But bringing up her clothes was sexist BEC stuff.
Post by cattledogkisses on Apr 22, 2015 15:44:27 GMT -5
I agree that women are judged more harshly on their attire, but this is a bad example.
A skater skirt is not equivalent to slacks. A cardigan is not equivalent to a blazer. A tight, low cut shirt is not equivalent to a button down or sweater. If she had gone with a pencil skirt, button down, and blazer (the equivalent of what the male example is wearing IMO), then she wouldn't have had an issue (attire-wise anyway).
ETA: Or heck, she could have gone with slacks too. Slacks + button down + blazer is an outfit the works for both sexes.
Putting aside her other legit issues that prevented her from getting the job, if a guy showed up to a tech job in gender equivalent attire (essentially business casual) his choice of clothing would not have been an issue at all.
With a hole in his pants? I don't know about that.
Exactly. And that outfit is far from business casual.
I think, though, that the outfit stood out because it supported her overall unprofessional behavior.
I have a male-equivalent anecdote. In my line of work we have frequent meetings with vendors trying to sell us stuff. One recent salesperson came in for his presentation wearing jeans and proceeded to tell us that he had been in this job for 2 weeks and really didn't know anything, and proceeded to use our time fishing for gossip about people he worked with at his previous company. Now, if he had otherwise not seemed annoying and incompetent, probably the jeans would be NBD. But he made quite the impression and the jeans were part of the overall picture, so when I hear my coworkers retell this story it always starts with, "So this guy shows up in jeans and..."
This is the closest male equivalent I could find on a quick google image search. Ill-fitting and sloppy, just like hers. All he needs is a bright periwinkle bag and a rip in his pants.
Not even close. This guy is in jeans.
they're not jeans, they just look like it from this picture. The point is, it's going for stylish, and coming across as messy and "IDGAF." As did her outfit. Again, though, he wins b/c he didn't pair a bright periwinkle slouchy bag and a rip in his pants.
I think that recruiter did that a girl a huge favor that she obviously did not see. She could have worn that same awful outfit to 10 more interviews.
I don't this particular example is so sexist. While I totally agree women are more harshly judged on appearance, sometimes they bring it on themselves when it comes to work attire. Men stick with generally conservative options. Women can do the same and be safe--traditional suits, slacks, cardigans, pencil skirts, etc in pretty much any color that isn't too out there. But experimenting with fashion is just not a good idea when it comes to a job interview.
This chick could probably benefit from an interview uniform. Remember that article we discussed?
I think she could find one good option (ask the damned recruiter, ffs) and just wear that to her interviews. Then when she gets the job, she can feel free to show up in circle skirts, ill fitting tops, and slouchy cardis. Paired with those awful boots lol.
I agree that women are judged more harshly on their attire, but this is a bad example.
A skater skirt is not equivalent to slacks. A cardigan is not equivalent to a blazer. A tight, low cut shirt is not equivalent to a button down or sweater. If she had gone with a pencil skirt, button down, and blazer (the equivalent of what the male example is wearing IMO), then she wouldn't have had an issue (attire-wise anyway).
Why is a pencil skirt the only appropriate skirt? Who made that rule? Figure skaters are fancy dammit.
The reality is that, all of the rules for business attire were created by and for men. Women are just expected to figure out how to mash ourselves into a male mold rather than expanding the mold so it works equally for both sexes.
I agree that women are judged more harshly on their attire, but this is a bad example.
A skater skirt is not equivalent to slacks. A cardigan is not equivalent to a blazer. A tight, low cut shirt is not equivalent to a button down or sweater. If she had gone with a pencil skirt, button down, and blazer (the equivalent of what the male example is wearing IMO), then she wouldn't have had an issue (attire-wise anyway).
Why is a pencil skirt the only appropriate skirt? Who made that rule? Figure skaters are fancy dammit.
The reality is that, all of the rules for business attire were created by and for men. Women are just expected to figure out how to mash ourselves into a male mold rather than expanding the mold so it works equally for both sexes.
Who made the rule that bikinis aren't appropriate for the office? Who made the rule that men have to wear pants to work?
I think your point about women trying to fit into a male mold might have been true 40 years ago, but not so much anymore. There are plenty of ways for women to dress professionally. Women probably have more options than men. This girl just didn't do that.
In the second one, I'm feeling a little nervous about her toes hanging out and the jeans but if you show up on motherfucking time, many interviewers in a variety of sectors will deal.
Post by mominatrix on Apr 22, 2015 16:18:13 GMT -5
I dunno. I'm doing a lot of GIS'ing trying to find work appropriate skater skirt outfits and not finding much.
even with a very conservative shirt, it doesn't do it for me. look:
Neither of these looks is particularly professional to me.
It's not a matter of pencil skirts being the ONLY work appropriate skirt. It's that skater skirts are generally shorter and more... poofy. That poofy + short = not great for work. Any time your skirt could, with a fairly minor oops, show off your panties... not great for work.