Of course he didn't sever his own spinal cord by thrashing around in a van. If he had a head injury or broken arm, then that explanation would be more plausible.
But still, severing a spinal cord from cops pushing their knees into his back during an arrest? That doesn't add up, either. I'm no medical expert, but I imagine that a spinal injury to this extent would take a tremendous amount of force. The fact that he had no other injuries is just baffling, or that there is no eyewitness saying he was forcefully thrown to the ground or punched directly in the throat or back (not that this didn't happen, but weren't there a number of people around during the arrest?) The only thing that makes sense to me is on one of those van stops a cop gave him a few very forceful strikes that caused these injuries.
Like stomping on someone's neck/upper back, which would cause both injury to the spine as well as a crushed larynx.
Of course he didn't sever his own spinal cord by thrashing around in a van. If he had a head injury or broken arm, then that explanation would be more plausible.
But still, severing a spinal cord from cops pushing their knees into his back during an arrest? That doesn't add up, either. I'm no medical expert, but I imagine that a spinal injury to this extent would take a tremendous amount of force. The fact that he had no other injuries is just baffling, or that there is no eyewitness saying he was forcefully thrown to the ground or punched directly in the throat or back (not that this didn't happen, but weren't there a number of people around during the arrest?)
The only thing that makes sense to me is on one of those van stops a cop gave him a few very forceful strikes that caused these injuries.
So 4 stops and still no opportunity to call paramedics?
The officers never reported this fourth stop, the police found out from someone's private video tape. The type of tape was not disclosed (cell phine, private security footage). This should have been in the report. This is probably the stop they beat him, and if it is, I hope the entire thing was caught on video.
Did they do an autopsy? Was there any other injuries to his body that could prove they weren't self inflicted like hand marks or a boot mark? If there was then I missed it.
Did they do an autopsy? Was there any other injuries to his body that could prove they weren't self inflicted like hand marks or a boot mark? If there was then I missed it.
They did do an autopsy, but the results have not been made public yet.
ETA: But, remember that he was in the hospital for a week before he died, so a. some of that might have healed by the time of death and autopsy and b. there should be hospital records with this information.
Did they do an autopsy? Was there any other injuries to his body that could prove they weren't self inflicted like hand marks or a boot mark? If there was then I missed it.
They did do an autopsy, but the results have not been made public yet.
Thank you. Hopefully this will give us some answers and prove that they weren't self inflicted.
Did they do an autopsy? Was there any other injuries to his body that could prove they weren't self inflicted like hand marks or a boot mark? If there was then I missed it.
They did do an autopsy, but the results have not been made public yet.
ETA: But, remember that he was in the hospital for a week before he died, so a. some of that might have healed by the time of death and autopsy and b. there should be hospital records with this information.
Hopefully they documented his injuries when he came into the hospital.
Of course he didn't sever his own spinal cord by thrashing around in a van. If he had a head injury or broken arm, then that explanation would be more plausible.
But still, severing a spinal cord from cops pushing their knees into his back during an arrest? That doesn't add up, either. I'm no medical expert, but I imagine that a spinal injury to this extent would take a tremendous amount of force. The fact that he had no other injuries is just baffling, or that there is no eyewitness saying he was forcefully thrown to the ground or punched directly in the throat or back (not that this didn't happen, but weren't there a number of people around during the arrest?) The only thing that makes sense to me is on one of those van stops a cop gave him a few very forceful strikes that caused these injuries.
Like stomping on someone's neck/upper back, which would cause both injury to the spine as well as a crushed larynx.
Yes, exactly, or a strike with a baton. This unreported fourth stop is interesting. I suspect that Freddie was making a bunch of noise (maybe banging because he needed his inhaler, or who knows), like the other prisoner said, and they pulled over and one of the cops stomped/punch/struck him.
Did they do an autopsy? Was there any other injuries to his body that could prove they weren't self inflicted like hand marks or a boot mark? If there was then I missed it.
They did do an autopsy, but the results have not been made public yet.
ETA: But, remember that he was in the hospital for a week before he died, so a. some of that might have healed by the time of death and autopsy and b. there should be hospital records with this information.
I thought it was released that the autopsy found the crushed larynx, broken (or crushed?) vertebrae, and severed spinal cord, and that there were no other injuries (which is weird)?
They did do an autopsy, but the results have not been made public yet.
ETA: But, remember that he was in the hospital for a week before he died, so a. some of that might have healed by the time of death and autopsy and b. there should be hospital records with this information.
I thought it was released that the autopsy found the crushed larynx, broken (or crushed?) vertebrae, and severed spinal cord, and that there were no other injuries (which is weird)?
That is what the police said. The report itself has not been released. And I think we know about how far the police department can be trusted at this point.
I am going to wait to see what the results of the investigation reveal, but it is hard for me to believe his injuries were self-induced.
Well the investigation is done and handed over to the state, so I suppose we'll find out soon enough.
I think we need to clarify that the entire investigation is not necessarily complete. This is a preliminary investigation as the autopsy will not be complete for up to two months (though I would assume sooner as with Michael Brown they push it to the front of the line).
Did the family have their own autopsy done? Was this already asked and answered and I missed it?
Well the investigation is done and handed over to the state, so I suppose we'll find out soon enough.
I think we need to clarify that the entire investigation is not necessarily complete. This is a preliminary investigation as the autopsy will not be complete for up to two months (though I would assume sooner as with Michael Brown they push it to the front of the line).
Did the family have their own autopsy done? Was this already asked and answered and I missed it?
I meant that the police have finished their investigation.
CNN was just outside the market where the 2nd stop (the unreported 4th stop if that makes sense). The line to their security camera were visibly cut. So my thought process is that the rioting and/or random vandalism did some good. The store had unknowingly had video, the riot happen and the lines were cut. They themselves or the police asked for footage in order to arrest rioters/vandals, and low and behold, they find shady acts of the police in the process. Without the riots, would this footage have ever been found?
I realize we have no clue what that footage shows, but silver lining and all.
They did do an autopsy, but the results have not been made public yet.
ETA: But, remember that he was in the hospital for a week before he died, so a. some of that might have healed by the time of death and autopsy and b. there should be hospital records with this information.
I thought it was released that the autopsy found the crushed larynx, broken (or crushed?) vertebrae, and severed spinal cord, and that there were no other injuries (which is weird)?
Assuming this is true (I think I heard the same info) I am really amazed at how these injuries could occur. Could all this occur from placing a knee on his neck? If it occured in the back of a van, it semes like it would still take significant force ( i have no idea how fast the van was going). They are just such outstanding injuries it is hard for my brain to comphrend. Like if I just heard those injuries, I would assume someone was thrown from a car at a high rate of speed or crushed by something really heavy.
I had to come back in here to say that I am so upset about all of this. I feel like I want to cry but I can't b/c I'm so angry. I want this to be part of change-I do not want this to be a huge lie, cover-up, etc. This needs to end. I think part of what makes me so sad is that my DH, who is black, is pretty non-nonchalant. For example, when I told him about this "leak" from the prisoner he was just like of course the police report is going to be self serving. The fact that he sees this as nothing new makes and is unsurprised makes me so upset. I know i'm just rambling but I feel like Hulk Smash at the moment.
I am going to wait to see what the results of the investigation reveal, but it is hard for me to believe his injuries were self-induced.
I do think there is a very small possibility that it could be self inflicted (and may have said "no way" in my above post). My mom worked in the mental health unit in a hospital for many years, and it was common for patients to be admitted while under the influence of various drugs. I remember her telling me stories about how sometimes it could be pretty scary when a patient was uncooperative and also on certain drugs (maybe LSD? Speed? I am not educated about the various types of abused drugs), because those drugs gave almost super human strength and the person felt no pain. She said that a person who was high enough might take a bullet and continue to be aggressive, and it could take many people to physically restrain a patient.
So I suppose it's possible that a person who was under the influence of certain drugs, especially someone young and strong, could self inflict a blow strong enough to sever the spinal cord. BUT I would also think that if they are high, they will be clumsy, and there would probably be a whole lot of bruising on various parts of the body, maybe some other broken bones, etc. It's just weird that right now no other injuries are reported.
It will be interesting to see official autopsy and toxicology reports, as well as additional information about this sketchy fourth stop.
So 4 stops and still no opportunity to call paramedics?
The officers never reported this fourth stop, the police found out from someone's private video tape. The type of tape was not disclosed (cell phine, private security footage). This should have been in the report. This is probably the stop they beat him, and if it is, I hope the entire thing was caught on video.
So...a falsified police report is a crime. A legitimate one that everyone knows is a crime if a civilian does it.
What type of penalties would cops face for falsifying their own report? Because that, at least, seems undeniable by everyone (even the crazies)
I had a client who was convicted of making a false police report (I represented the client in an unrelated matter). They held a government/public position when it happened. It's a felony, and the court came down hard. Some jail time, very long probation, a scathing order about what was done, not allowed to have any communication with certain people who were involved, not allowed to ever hold public office or government position (so lost their job), and had to move away from the community because it was all over the papers and the family pretty much became social outcasts. And the report that they were convicted of falsifying was over something much less significant than a young person dying from a mysterious spinal injury.
Of course this is an anecdote, but police falsifying their own report should lead to felony convictions and serious consequences.
The police came last week asking for footage from the shop owner, so my theory was wrong.
The market was looted Monday, the owner's laptop was stolen. The laptop has the footage on it, though the police have a copy.
So they came a week ago asking for footage, and yet, as of, oh 3 hours ago?, this stop has remained undisclosed. Did the shop owner just now get them the footage?
This new "tidbit" is entirely damning; why hide it if there's nothing to hide? 6 officers, 2 at the very minimum (drivers of the passenger transport vehicle), all happen to simultaneously forget about this stop. Riiiiight. And at that stop was Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones with their MIB memory flasher thingies. Because that's just as believable.
So they came a week ago asking for footage, and yet, as of, oh 3 hours ago?, this stop has remained undisclosed. Did the shop owner just now get them the footage?
This new "tidbit" is entirely damning; why hide it if there's nothing to hide? 6 officers, 2 at the very minimum (drivers of the passenger transport vehicle), all happen to simultaneously forget about this stop. Riiiiight. And at that stop was Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones with their MIB memory flasher thingies. Because that's just as believable.
I don't know that this is necessarily the case. I don't expect every piece of information to be released especially if the police reports from the various officers don't match up. That could have been what got the ball rolling. This is why I hate that stuff is leaked before the investigation is done. Many times it is done by the union which is there to protect the officers so it would be stuff that put them in a positive light. I haven't seen anything to suggest all 6 officers have the same story.
I'm not above believing that a series of truly unfortunate events led to this happening. But to know that 1, they repeatedly denied him medical care, 2, they didn't buckle him in, and even went so far as to pull over to put him back on the seat and still not buckle him in, and now 3, this new stop, it's just making for mistake on top of mistake, which reads to the public as excuse after excuse - even if there was no malicious intent to begin with. I don't know if I'm making sense the way I intend to be :/
I am interested to see the full investigation, as well as what this new footage may or may not show.
ETA: I don't know that all 6 officers had the same story, either, now that I'm trying to figure out why I thought that. I know I read that 5 of 6 had given statements at one point, and I assumed that if they released info about the other 3 stops then the reports may have supported one another. So that is me making assumptions, sorry.
Who rides in a prisoner transport vehicle? Just the driver and passenger?
Donta Allen, the second passenger in the police van carrying Freddie Gray on Apr. 11, says he didn't know Gray was there. On Wednesday the Washington Post reported on a leaked police document detailing the account of an anonymous second passenger in the police van that Freddie Gray was traveling in on April 12, after his arrest and before he was taken to the hospital with what turned out to be fatal injuries.
Here’s the takeaway from the Post’s story:
A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by the Washington Post. Advertisement It was a strange statement, and seemingly self-serving shred of evidence, for the Baltimore police or someone associated with the police force to leak. The most curious part of the account was that the second passenger apparently could not see Gray because of a metal divider.
On Thursday, Donta Allen indentified himself as the second passenger in the van. The 22-year-old spoke to WBAL-TV:
Allen said he did not know a man was already in the van. Gray was on the right side and Allen was loaded on the left side with a divider separating them. Allen described what he heard: "When I got in the van, I didn't hear nothing. It was a smooth ride. We went straight to the police station. All I heard was a little banging for about four seconds. I just heard little banging, just little banging." Asked whether he told police whether he heard Gray banging his head against the van, Allen said, "I told homicide that. I don't work for the police. I did not tell the police nothing." “Allen said he did not know a man was already in the van,” according to WBAL. “Gray was on the right side and Allen was loaded on the left side with a divider separating them.”
Donta Allen, the second passenger in the police van carrying Freddie Gray on Apr. 11, says he didn't know Gray was there. On Wednesday the Washington Post reported on a leaked police document detailing the account of an anonymous second passenger in the police van that Freddie Gray was traveling in on April 12, after his arrest and before he was taken to the hospital with what turned out to be fatal injuries.
Here’s the takeaway from the Post’s story:
A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by the Washington Post. Advertisement It was a strange statement, and seemingly self-serving shred of evidence, for the Baltimore police or someone associated with the police force to leak. The most curious part of the account was that the second passenger apparently could not see Gray because of a metal divider.
On Thursday, Donta Allen indentified himself as the second passenger in the van. The 22-year-old spoke to WBAL-TV:
Allen said he did not know a man was already in the van. Gray was on the right side and Allen was loaded on the left side with a divider separating them. Allen described what he heard: "When I got in the van, I didn't hear nothing. It was a smooth ride. We went straight to the police station. All I heard was a little banging for about four seconds. I just heard little banging, just little banging." Asked whether he told police whether he heard Gray banging his head against the van, Allen said, "I told homicide that. I don't work for the police. I did not tell the police nothing." “Allen said he did not know a man was already in the van,” according to WBAL. “Gray was on the right side and Allen was loaded on the left side with a divider separating them.”
So he says they went straight to the police station. Was he the guy picked up at this mysterious fourth stop?? I am having trouble keeping all of this straight.
Donta Allen, the second passenger in the police van carrying Freddie Gray on Apr. 11, says he didn't know Gray was there. On Wednesday the Washington Post reported on a leaked police document detailing the account of an anonymous second passenger in the police van that Freddie Gray was traveling in on April 12, after his arrest and before he was taken to the hospital with what turned out to be fatal injuries.
Here’s the takeaway from the Post’s story:
A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by the Washington Post. Advertisement It was a strange statement, and seemingly self-serving shred of evidence, for the Baltimore police or someone associated with the police force to leak. The most curious part of the account was that the second passenger apparently could not see Gray because of a metal divider.
On Thursday, Donta Allen indentified himself as the second passenger in the van. The 22-year-old spoke to WBAL-TV:
Allen said he did not know a man was already in the van. Gray was on the right side and Allen was loaded on the left side with a divider separating them. Allen described what he heard: "When I got in the van, I didn't hear nothing. It was a smooth ride. We went straight to the police station. All I heard was a little banging for about four seconds. I just heard little banging, just little banging." Asked whether he told police whether he heard Gray banging his head against the van, Allen said, "I told homicide that. I don't work for the police. I did not tell the police nothing." “Allen said he did not know a man was already in the van,” according to WBAL. “Gray was on the right side and Allen was loaded on the left side with a divider separating them.”
I'm confused. He did hear Gray banging his head? He didn't hear it? Is "homicide" not the police?
(To be clear, I don't believe for one hot second Freddie Gray did this to himself. Plus I'm on my second Bud Light Lime. I'm just not clear on what he's saying.)