I grew up in an open carry state. Honestly, it wasn't that big of a deal. I don't even really remember noticing it that much as a kid. From what I do remember, most folks just had a gun in a holster or so. The only time I was freaked out by one was when I worked in retail and I was fitting someone for a suit and i was measuring their chest and felt the gun. Just because it kind of shocked me lol (it was under a jacket).
And not once in the 26 years where I lived in an open carry state did I see anyone carry anything larger than a hand gun. NOW, TX has always had open carry for rifles and you don't see people wearing rifles everywhere right?
I am not saying I am a fan of this gun law, just in reality I would rather have open carry than concealed. I want to know who has a gun when I see them.
I actually would rather someone open carry. I can teach my kids to avoid those with a gun when they see it instead of worrying about who has one hiding.
Devil's advocate: might someone openly carrying also have some fear issues to deal with? I mean unless you're law enforcement or Tony Soprano or something.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but fear is kind of the main point on both sides.
I'm not sure I understand the assumption that someone who carries a handgun on their person, concealed or open, is somehow unstable and to be feared. I certainly don't think they're bullies and that was an inappropriate character assumption up thread.
Living in Texas, you get to know a lot of people who carry concealed. I know several men and woman who have CHL and carry a handgun on their person. I also know that they regularly practice using their weapon at ranges and take classes on personal defense using a handgun. I don't feel unsafe that those people are going to suddenly freak their shit out and stay mass murdering people.
I'm not a gun proponent. I don't feel a need to carry a handgun for protection (or any other reason). I know myself well enough that even with practice and training I couldn't shoot to kill an intruder or person threatening me or my property. However, I don't feel unsafe or like I'm personally threatened because other people carry a handgun. Seeing it in the open doesn't change the fact that the guns are already out there in the first place.
If I'm being perfectly honest, I'm going to find the person with the gun and be extra nice. If I saw a person with a gun in a hip holster or a shoulder holster like the woman in the picture up thread, I don't think my first assumption would be that she was a threat just because she was wearing a side arm.
My first and quite honestly only assumption when I see someone carrying a gun in a holster is that they are an off duty or plain clothes officer of some sort.
I guess when I think of open carry in actual practice (rather than in protests or for shock value), I'm thinking more of this -
and less of this -
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I can't stand die Deutsche but this is why I'm never coming back. I don't want to live in a world that looks like this. When did America become Yemen or Somalia? Who are they at war with?
No, I shouldn't have to deal with my fear of guns and other deadly weapons. Especially at a grocery store or Target.
We all have fears. We can't control where they appear. I'm afraid of vomit, so I shouldn't ever leave my house?
I'm pretty sure this point goes both ways, and I'm pretty sure that the person afraid of guns is the more rational actor here. I'm not the one that is afraid to leave my house without a gun.
We all have fears. We can't control where they appear. I'm afraid of vomit, so I shouldn't ever leave my house?
I'm pretty sure this point goes both ways, and I'm pretty sure that the person afraid of guns is the more rational actor here. I'm not the one that is afraid to leave my house without a gun.
I'm saying that fear isn't rational. It's normal to have anxiety about things that we may not understand or be comfortable with. I work very hard to not pass my fears onto my child because I know how much of an issue it is for me and I don't want her going through that.
Telling your child loudly that the person open carrying is scared or a bully is telling your child a lie. Just because you fear them doesn't mean your child has to as well. Educate them, teach them proper ways to act/behave when they see a gun, and give age-appropriate answers to questions they ask. It doesn't have to be a huge deal.
I'm not sure I understand the assumption that someone who carries a handgun on their person, concealed or open, is somehow unstable and to be feared. I certainly don't think they're bullies and that was an inappropriate character assumption up thread.
Living in Texas, you get to know a lot of people who carry concealed. I know several men and woman who have CHL and carry a handgun on their person. I also know that they regularly practice using their weapon at ranges and take classes on personal defense using a handgun. I don't feel unsafe that those people are going to suddenly freak their shit out and stay mass murdering people.
I'm not a gun proponent. I don't feel a need to carry a handgun for protection (or any other reason). I know myself well enough that even with practice and training I couldn't shoot to kill an intruder or person threatening me or my property. However, I don't feel unsafe or like I'm personally threatened because other people carry a handgun. Seeing it in the open doesn't change the fact that the guns are already out there in the first place.
If I'm being perfectly honest, I'm going to find the person with the gun and be extra nice. If I saw a person with a gun in a hip holster or a shoulder holster like the woman in the picture up thread, I don't think my first assumption would be that she was a threat just because she was wearing a side arm.
The thing is, you have absolutely no idea if that person in Kroger with an AR-15 is a responsible, trained gun owner or a total nutjob with mental issues who's going to start shooting the minute he feels threatened or upset. There's no way to know. And that is what is so frightening.
I'm pretty sure this point goes both ways, and I'm pretty sure that the person afraid of guns is the more rational actor here. I'm not the one that is afraid to leave my house without a gun.
I'm saying that fear isn't rational. It's normal to have anxiety about things that we may not understand or be comfortable with. I work very hard to not pass my fears onto my child because I know how much of an issue it is for me and I don't want her going through that.
Telling your child loudly that the person open carrying is scared or a bully is telling your child a lie. Just because you fear them doesn't mean your child has to as well. Educate them, teach them proper ways to act/behave when they see a gun, and give age-appropriate answers to questions they ask. It doesn't have to be a huge deal.
Wait. You are saying that it isn't rational to be afraid of a stranger carrying around a loaded weapon capable of killing you and your family in under five seconds?
I'm pretty sure this point goes both ways, and I'm pretty sure that the person afraid of guns is the more rational actor here. I'm not the one that is afraid to leave my house without a gun.
I'm saying that fear isn't rational. It's normal to have anxiety about things that we may not understand or be comfortable with. I work very hard to not pass my fears onto my child because I know how much of an issue it is for me and I don't want her going through that.
Telling your child loudly that the person open carrying is scared or a bully is telling your child a lie. Just because you fear them doesn't mean your child has to as well. Educate them, teach them proper ways to act/behave when they see a gun, and give age-appropriate answers to questions they ask. It doesn't have to be a huge deal.
First off, I don't have kids, so I don't really have a horse in this race. But if I had kids, sorry, I'd absolutely want them to be afraid of guns. I don't now, nor ever plan to, normalize them as just a part of our lives. Education, to me, involves instilling a very healthy level of fear of guns. For me, personally, guns are not like alcohol, where I'd teach my kids that moderation is OK.
I'm not sure I understand the assumption that someone who carries a handgun on their person, concealed or open, is somehow unstable and to be feared. I certainly don't think they're bullies and that was an inappropriate character assumption up thread.
Living in Texas, you get to know a lot of people who carry concealed. I know several men and woman who have CHL and carry a handgun on their person. I also know that they regularly practice using their weapon at ranges and take classes on personal defense using a handgun. I don't feel unsafe that those people are going to suddenly freak their shit out and stay mass murdering people.
I'm not a gun proponent. I don't feel a need to carry a handgun for protection (or any other reason). I know myself well enough that even with practice and training I couldn't shoot to kill an intruder or person threatening me or my property. However, I don't feel unsafe or like I'm personally threatened because other people carry a handgun. Seeing it in the open doesn't change the fact that the guns are already out there in the first place.
If I'm being perfectly honest, I'm going to find the person with the gun and be extra nice. If I saw a person with a gun in a hip holster or a shoulder holster like the woman in the picture up thread, I don't think my first assumption would be that she was a threat just because she was wearing a side arm.
I don't want to live in a society where the first line of defense to a threat is a gun waved at me. I don't, so I will continue to be part of groups that call for gun control and continue to publically speak out against guns in our public places.
I've asked this IRL and on here probably too many times, but I'll ask it again b/c it leads to the idea of trust, community, and fear. Are they carrying a gun (concealed or not) because they think they are a superhero who is going to save someone, because they are trained law enforcement in plain clothes, or because "you never know where another gun threat will come from and I have to be prepared?"
Two of those three are unfathomable to me, I keep trying to understand the mindset that you think humans are the enemy - other people who think, look, act, talk, just like you. I don't get it and don't want my kids to think that I condone killing people with guns. Plus I know two families who have had to endure gun-related suicides in the last year - one was a high school kid. Both families are responsible gun owners with conceal-carry or hunting purposes, but also owned handguns. They weren't gun nuts, but they ended up having a gun death. I don't want that to continue to happen.
Lastly, the bolded pisses me off beyond belief!!! Yeah, as soon as someone is carrying a gun, they are the dominant feature in public and THAT is why you are going to be nice to them?! No, carrying a gun shuts down normal public interaction with someone - you act different and treat them different. It's sort of like the people who carry automatic weapons into public to prove a point/protest, yes, they can do this, but rarely is someone, except law enforcement, going to confront them b/c they are carrying a gun and you DON'T KNOW THEIR MOTIVATION. They could be headed to shoot their X-wife or pissed off or a George Zimmerman type or just someone who wants to protest. Problem is the protest is VERY one-sided b/c they have now just changed how you, and most everyone else, acts around them intentionally. They didn't change your mind or persuade you with facts about violence going down when guns are pulled in self-defense, they just freaked everyone out and we left them alone.
I'm pretty sure this point goes both ways, and I'm pretty sure that the person afraid of guns is the more rational actor here. I'm not the one that is afraid to leave my house without a gun.
I'm saying that fear isn't rational. It's normal to have anxiety about things that we may not understand or be comfortable with. I work very hard to not pass my fears onto my child because I know how much of an issue it is for me and I don't want her going through that.
Telling your child loudly that the person open carrying is scared or a bully is telling your child a lie. Just because you fear them doesn't mean your child has to as well. Educate them, teach them proper ways to act/behave when they see a gun, and give age-appropriate answers to questions they ask. It doesn't have to be a huge deal.
Honestly, what reason does someone have to carry in public other than fear that they might need it. A gun doesn't serve a purpose other than killing and/or intimidating. IMO a responsible gun owner is one whose gun is locked separately from ammo at all times unless it's being used, either for hunting or at a range. I'm not even particularly comfortable with police carrying, but at least I know that they have received some training unlike some random person on the street, but also accept that with guns as prevalent as they are in our culture police have no choice. But I have police relatives and none of them have ever carried when off duty. They all always went straight home from work and locked their gun up before going anywhere.
I'm saying that fear isn't rational. It's normal to have anxiety about things that we may not understand or be comfortable with. I work very hard to not pass my fears onto my child because I know how much of an issue it is for me and I don't want her going through that.
Telling your child loudly that the person open carrying is scared or a bully is telling your child a lie. Just because you fear them doesn't mean your child has to as well. Educate them, teach them proper ways to act/behave when they see a gun, and give age-appropriate answers to questions they ask. It doesn't have to be a huge deal.
First off, I don't have kids, so I don't really have a horse in this race. But if I had kids, sorry, I'd absolutely want them to be afraid of guns. I don't now, nor ever plan to, normalize them as just a part of our lives. Education, to me, involves instilling a very healthy level of fear of guns. For me, personally, guns are not like alcohol, where I'd teach my kids that moderation is OK.
I think respecting guns is a far better method that fearing them. It's not about moderation. It's about teaching your child to understand what to do if they see one or are around them in any scenario. I believe that fear can, in some children, lead to curiosity. The more forbidden and scary something is, the more it interests them.
I can understand the fear, I truly do. Guns can be very dangerous, but they aren't inherently so. Does that make sense?
First off, I don't have kids, so I don't really have a horse in this race. But if I had kids, sorry, I'd absolutely want them to be afraid of guns. I don't now, nor ever plan to, normalize them as just a part of our lives. Education, to me, involves instilling a very healthy level of fear of guns. For me, personally, guns are not like alcohol, where I'd teach my kids that moderation is OK.
I think respecting guns is a far better method that fearing them. It's not about moderation. It's about teaching your child to understand what to do if they see one or are around them in any scenario. I believe that fear can, in some children, lead to curiosity. The more forbidden and scary something is, the more it interests them.
I can understand the fear, I truly do. Guns can be very dangerous, but they aren't inherently so. Does that make sense?
How are guns not inherently dangerous? They are designed specifically to *be* dangerous. That is their whole purpose - they are weapons. That's like saying nuclear warheads aren't inherently dangerous.
I think respecting guns is a far better method that fearing them. It's not about moderation. It's about teaching your child to understand what to do if they see one or are around them in any scenario. I believe that fear can, in some children, lead to curiosity. The more forbidden and scary something is, the more it interests them.
I can understand the fear, I truly do. Guns can be very dangerous, but they aren't inherently so. Does that make sense?
How are guns not inherently dangerous? They are designed specifically to *be* dangerous. That is their whole purpose - they are weapons. That's like saying nuclear warheads aren't inherently dangerous.
A gun is just a hunk of metal until someone touches it and gives it a purpose. It is not going to shoot someone simply by existing.
First off, I don't have kids, so I don't really have a horse in this race. But if I had kids, sorry, I'd absolutely want them to be afraid of guns. I don't now, nor ever plan to, normalize them as just a part of our lives. Education, to me, involves instilling a very healthy level of fear of guns. For me, personally, guns are not like alcohol, where I'd teach my kids that moderation is OK.
I think respecting guns is a far better method that fearing them. It's not about moderation. It's about teaching your child to understand what to do if they see one or are around them in any scenario. I believe that fear can, in some children, lead to curiosity. The more forbidden and scary something is, the more it interests them.
I can understand the fear, I truly do. Guns can be very dangerous, but they aren't inherently so. Does that make sense?
I get understanding the weapon or learning more, but respect, nope - not for me. I have shot guns - handguns, rifles, shotguns, and one semi-automatic thing. I get the thrill, but I think you don't remember what the word respect means...
"Respect (v): admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements."
How are guns not inherently dangerous? They are designed specifically to *be* dangerous. That is their whole purpose - they are weapons. That's like saying nuclear warheads aren't inherently dangerous.
A gun is just a hunk of metal until someone touches it and gives it a purpose. It is not going to shoot someone simply by existing.
You are arguing that guns are not weapons?? I am so confused.
I think respecting guns is a far better method that fearing them. It's not about moderation. It's about teaching your child to understand what to do if they see one or are around them in any scenario. I believe that fear can, in some children, lead to curiosity. The more forbidden and scary something is, the more it interests them.
I can understand the fear, I truly do. Guns can be very dangerous, but they aren't inherently so. Does that make sense?
I get understanding the weapon or learning more, but respect, nope - not for me. I have shot guns - handguns, rifles, shotguns, and one semi-automatic thing. I get the thrill, but I think you don't remember what the word respect means...
"Respect (v): admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements."
I think the context was clear, given the common vernacular and usage. I'm not worshiping a Smith and Wesson, but I am aware of what it can do and I (insert other word for respect) that.
A gun is just a hunk of metal until someone touches it and gives it a purpose. It is not going to shoot someone simply by existing.
You are arguing that guns are not weapons?? I am so confused.
No. I'm saying that it will not do anything until someone makes it. You are not going to get shot by looking at it, putting a finger on the barrel, or having it near you.
How are guns not inherently dangerous? They are designed specifically to *be* dangerous. That is their whole purpose - they are weapons. That's like saying nuclear warheads aren't inherently dangerous.
A gun is just a hunk of metal until someone touches it and gives it a purpose. It is not going to shoot someone simply by existing.
Yes, I know, guns don't kill people. People kill people. Blah blah blah.
I'm not sure I understand the assumption that someone who carries a handgun on their person, concealed or open, is somehow unstable and to be feared. I certainly don't think they're bullies and that was an inappropriate character assumption up thread.
Living in Texas, you get to know a lot of people who carry concealed. I know several men and woman who have CHL and carry a handgun on their person. I also know that they regularly practice using their weapon at ranges and take classes on personal defense using a handgun. I don't feel unsafe that those people are going to suddenly freak their shit out and stay mass murdering people.
I'm not a gun proponent. I don't feel a need to carry a handgun for protection (or any other reason). I know myself well enough that even with practice and training I couldn't shoot to kill an intruder or person threatening me or my property. However, I don't feel unsafe or like I'm personally threatened because other people carry a handgun. Seeing it in the open doesn't change the fact that the guns are already out there in the first place.
If I'm being perfectly honest, I'm going to find the person with the gun and be extra nice. If I saw a person with a gun in a hip holster or a shoulder holster like the woman in the picture up thread, I don't think my first assumption would be that she was a threat just because she was wearing a side arm.
The thing is, you have absolutely no idea if that person in Kroger with an AR-15 is a responsible, trained gun owner or a total nutjob with mental issues who's going to start shooting the minute he feels threatened or upset. There's no way to know. And that is what is so frightening.
How many people at Kroger have you see carrying an AR-15 or any other long gun?
The thing is, you have absolutely no idea if that person in Kroger with an AR-15 is a responsible, trained gun owner or a total nutjob with mental issues who's going to start shooting the minute he feels threatened or upset. There's no way to know. And that is what is so frightening.
How many people at Kroger have you see carrying an AR-15 or any other long gun?
I've got to be honest, I don't understand this argument, at all. WTF is the difference if they are carrying a long gun or a handgun? Neither serves any purpose at freaking Kroger.
You are arguing that guns are not weapons?? I am so confused.
No. I'm saying that it will not do anything until someone makes it. You are not going to get shot by looking at it, putting a finger on the barrel, or having it near you.
Okay. But nobody said you would. You could, however, very well get shot by that random guy with his AR-15 in Kroger who decides he's had enough today, or that guy who gets into an argument over a parking space with someone else and pulls out his gun and starts shooting wildly, or even that two year old who reaches into mom's purse and pulls out her gun.
I'm not afraid of a gun sitting a counter with nobody around. I am, however, afraid of a gun being carried by a total stranger in public, knowing that there are basically no laws or regulations ensuring that he is trained, mentally stable, or has the slightest business having a firearm in the first place.
The thing is, you have absolutely no idea if that person in Kroger with an AR-15 is a responsible, trained gun owner or a total nutjob with mental issues who's going to start shooting the minute he feels threatened or upset. There's no way to know. And that is what is so frightening.
How many people at Kroger have you see carrying an AR-15 or any other long gun?
At Kroger, none because I refuse to shop there.
I have seen people carrying long guns in other public places, though, and I've seen a number of people carrying handguns. Long gun or handgun, they're both pretty scary to me. Long gun is extra scary, though, because the only reason you would be carrying that around in public is because you have some major issues and get off on intimidating people.