I will preface this by saying I am not a huge Kohl's fan for exactly this reason. I try to use their "sales/discounts" to get name-brand items that are easily comparison-priced. I don't see either of the plaintiffs being successful but I hope it brings about some changes.
Dive Brief: • TJX Cos. Inc., parent of T.J. Maxx, and Kohl’s Department Stores are the latest retailers facing lawsuits related to their pricing policies. J.C. Penney is facing a similar suit filed last month.
• Two T.J. Maxx shoppers in California say they believed the retailer’s claims about the difference between the discounted price and the “original” department store price, but later found that the “original” price was just T.J. Maxx’s “estimation.” The suit has been proposed as a class action.
• Meanwhile, Kohl’s similarly (but not quite exactly) faces a putative class action, also in California, over false advertising that the plaintiffs say misled shoppers about sales. The suit alleges that the retailer never charged the original prices, which it calls “fictitious.”
Dive Insight:
Human beings seem unable to resist a bargain, and retailers seem unable to resist tempting shoppers with them.
The trouble is when those bargains are fashioned from original prices that are somehow not quite true. In T.J. Maxx’s case, the retailer is under fire because its “compare to” prices are a product of its staff’s imaginations. In Kohl’s case, the retailer is accused of never charging what it does put on its tags. Both are ways to beef up the size of the bargain in some way, and boost that psychologically wonderful sense of getting a deal.
T.J. Maxx is actually pretty up front about its policy, posting on its website:
What do we mean by "compare at"?
The "compare at" price is our buying staff's estimate of the regular, retail price at which a comparable item in finer catalogs, specialty or department stores may have been sold. We buy products from thousands of vendors worldwide, so the item may not be offered by other retailers at the "compare at" price at any particular time or location. We encourage you to do your own comparison shopping as another way to see what great value we offer. We stand for bringing you and your family exceptional value every day – it’s the foundation of our business.
Fair enough. Still, that the retailer is actively suggesting a “compare to” price in the first place lays the foundation for possibly inflated suggestions. Kohl’s doesn’t have quite the same up-front disclaimer anywhere.
It could be time for retailers to revisit this practice. Customers hate being duped even more than they love a bargain. And regulators hate it, too, when things go too far.
Beyond that, there’s another psychology increasingly prevalent among consumers—perhaps thanks to such practices—the expectation of low prices. The comparison, deceptive or not, may help push the sale. But so do basement prices. Retailers may increasingly find that they can’t get away with boosting prices as consumers become conditioned to expect discounts and sales all the time.
There could be another way to be even more up front than T.J. Maxx about what things might cost in the real world. Or it could be time to start selling on value rather than on discount.
Their pricing annoys me, but this is still kind of ridiculous to me. Who cares what the "regular" price is/was....The marked price is all that actually matters to their bank account. If they really can't resist it because of how great of a deal it is, that's not the company's fault. I don't know how anyone still falls for "the best sale of the year" every single weekend.
I mean, anyone can place whatever value they want on something that they're selling. If I'm selling lemonade for .50, marked down from $3, I'm still selling it for the same price as the girl across the street who always had it for .50. The customer is still only spending .50.
I'm also getting a huge chuckle over the fact that JCP ousted its old CEO for instituting a younger vibe and a no sales philosophy, and is now getting sued because their current CEO tried to copy Kohl's.
I mean, anyone can place whatever value they want on something that they're selling. If I'm selling lemonade for .50, marked down from $3, I'm still selling it for the same price as the girl across the street who always had it for .50. The customer is still only spending .50.
Yeah, this is why I don't think they'll be successful, but California may have some stricter laws on this stuff.
I like it too. More online than in store, but I'm okay with it.
I know the pricing is a total scam. I'm pretty sure 100% of the population does.
However, it doesn't matter to me so much that a shirt was priced at $48.99 and they never charged that price. After the "sale" if it cost me $4.99 I can't beat that price no matter where else I shop on sale or not. Where else can I buy kid's clothes for a $2.99?
Afterall, 'Merica. Capitalism. I can charge whatever the hell I want, when I want. If you fall for it, awesome.
Post by thebreakfastclub on Jul 23, 2015 14:18:05 GMT -5
As someone in retail, the high/low pricing rules are drilled into our heads so that we didn't violate the law.
In order to show an original vs save story, we had to have the goods for sale at the original ticket for 30 days. However, you could deliver a jacket to your website in August, offer it at a high price, out of season, and then deliver to your stores 6 weeks later at a different price. The final price is probably your Black Friday deal. It's all part of the plan, just like when Carter's is always 50% off of the ticket.
Margins are so high in apparel. GAP is still making money at 40% off storewide.
TJ Maxx is probably 20% close outs and the rest is planned purchases. If you see a rack of 18 shirts, in a full size scale, that wasn't someone else's close out. They bought that like any retailer would. After the recession, close outs became much harder to find.
TJ Maxx is probably 20% close outs and the rest is planned purchases. If you see a rack of 18 shirts, in a full size scale, that wasn't someone else's close out. They bought that like any retailer would. After the recession, close outs became much harder to find.
Yes, I find this fascinating! Apparently TJM employs more buyers than any other department store retailer. They ink deals with labels to produce first-runs for them (for example, at the end of a Calvin Klein dress product run of 10,000 units for Macy's, they then make 8,000 more for TJM but at a lower price because the style is slightly different).
As someone in retail, the high/low pricing rules are drilled into our heads so that we didn't violate the law.
In order to show an original vs save story, we had to have the goods for sale at the original ticket for 30 days. However, you could deliver a jacket to your website in August, offer it at a high price, out of season, and then deliver to your stores 6 weeks later at a different price. The final price is probably your Black Friday deal. It's all part of the plan, just like when Carter's is always 50% off of the ticket.
Margins are so high in apparel. GAP is still making money at 40% off storewide.
TJ Maxx is probably 20% close outs and the rest is planned purchases. If you see a rack of 18 shirts, in a full size scale, that wasn't someone else's close out. They bought that like any retailer would. After the recession, close outs became much harder to find.
I know nothing about this topic, so this was interesting to read!! Seems like the maxx and outlets used to be more close outs than they are now.
Post by stephm0188 on Jul 23, 2015 14:31:26 GMT -5
I hate Kohl's for this very reason. I don't want to deal with sales and Kohl's cash and coupons and wonder if there's an even better deal next week. It's stupid.
And I think TJ Maxx is deceptive, too with their BS "Compare at" prices that most of that clothing never actually retails for, but at least they aren't trying to hustle me with signage and coupons.
I actually like how TJ maxx doesn't have sales or coupons. If it's on the clearance rack, great. But if not, you always know exactly how much each item costs. It's so much less of a game.
I hate Kohl's. I hate coupons. I mean, you want to put something on sale, fine, but don't make me have 5 million special cards and rewards points and paper coupons plus online point and rebates to get a deal.
I'm glad they're seeing some repercussions, I think it's shady.
I have no issue with TJ Maxx. I always assumed that their "compare to" prices weren't actually what anyone once paid. Like at Carter's, there's a price on the price tag, but the whole store is always on sale.
I HATE Kohl's, though. I got in a fight with them once over a coupon I had used. It was like $10 off $100, and I spent well over $150. When I got home, I realized that one of the shirts was damaged. I tried to exchange it, but they didn't have any more in my size. I asked for a refund, and they gave me the price I paid, minus a portion of the coupon. Apparently, the $10 off isn't off the total, but it is divided equally on each item. So, say I had 4 items, each was $2.50 off. Even though, without that damaged shirt, I still spent over the $100 threshold. So basically, I spent, like $135, and only ended up being credited for 75% of the coupon, because of the return of their damaged item! Ugh, I'm probably doing a terrible job of explaining it, but I was furious and never went back. LOL, Kohl's is on my shitlist.
I hate Kohl's. I hate coupons. I mean, you want to put something on sale, fine, but don't make me have 5 million special cards and rewards points and paper coupons plus online point and rebates to get a deal.
I'm glad they're seeing some repercussions, I think it's shady.
Isn't this every store now though? I hardly walk in and buy anything on a whim anymore because you have to be armed with your store coupons, your special e-mail coupons, your $10 rebate from the last sale (Damn you Carter's and Gymboree), your manufacturer coupons to stack (like diapers at BRU), your gift card from the last sale (I'm looking at you Target), your loyalty card, and if you're online, hunt around for free a shipping code or be a chump and pay for shipping. Oh and don't forget to login through Ebates or similar website online first.
Or else you actually pay the price on the tag and feel stupid afterwards because you didn't play the game right.
I HATE Kohl's, though. I got in a fight with them once over a coupon I had used. It was like $10 off $100, and I spent well over $150. When I got home, I realized that one of the shirts was damaged. I tried to exchange it, but they didn't have any more in my size. I asked for a refund, and they gave me the price I paid, minus a portion of the coupon. Apparently, the $10 off isn't off the total, but it is divided equally on each item. So, say I had 4 items, each was $2.50 off. Even though, without that damaged shirt, I still spent over the $100 threshold. So basically, I spent, like $135, and only ended up being credited for 75% of the coupon, because of the return of their damaged item! Ugh, I'm probably doing a terrible job of explaining it, but I was furious and never went back. LOL, Kohl's is on my shitlist.
I followed you. This is a relatively new Kohl's policy...and it sucks. Their coupons used to be no exclusions (except the Kohl's Cares charity stuff), but that has all changed, too.
I do shop a lot at Kohl's, though. I NEVER pay more than 50% off of their "regular price"...they're ridiculous. Because I've been shopping there forever, I've figured out their (scam of a) system. It's a pain, but I can stack coupons, discounts, and Kohl's Cash & know I couldn't have gotten a better price anywhere else. I mostly buy kids stuff and some housewares stuff. I haven't been happy with most women's clothing I've purchased there. It doesn't last.
Post by Ashley&Scott on Jul 23, 2015 15:29:09 GMT -5
I like Kohls. I compare prices so I know better than to pay more than what I would another retailer. And I've gotten some great deals, the Asics running shoes I bought a few months ago were $20 cheaper than anywhere else & I earned $20 KC on top of that.
I get so much free shit from Kohl's for playing their game I don't even care.
You are so my mother. The Kohl's game is like a hobby to her. Between her CC, keeping track of coupons and hitting the "sale" on the right day she scores loads of free stuff. She brings me like a season's worth of clothes for DS and paid like $20.00 for it all. She always gets Christmas/Birthday toys for the kids along with the house stuff we want for Christmas cheap. I don't think she's actually paid more than $1.99 for bath towels and tablecloths and dishes since sometime late 2001.
I get into at Christmas because I'm out of time the rest of the year, but I sort of see where she finds it fun.
She's also really good at playing the Macy's Disaster as well. She gets my Dad nice polos for like $5.99 on the regular.
Post by ilikedonuts on Jul 23, 2015 15:35:40 GMT -5
Also I can get Frozen Crocs for like $12. That is a darn good deal. Thank Kohls! Now I don't have to listen to my 20 month old scream for them all day long.
Post by sunshineluv on Jul 23, 2015 15:43:05 GMT -5
I love Kohls.
Someone should sue Sprint for deceptive pricing, or any of the big cell companies. When I was shopping around I found it impossible to figure out what a bill would be. Cut your bill in half! But pay fees you can't find in the fine print on our website.
Someone should sue Sprint for deceptive pricing, or any of the big cell companies. When I was shopping around I found it impossible to figure out what a bill would be. Cut your bill in half! But pay fees you can't find in the fine print on our website.
This is why we still have flip phones. There are so many hidden charges & fees that our cell bill would more than double if we upgraded.
Post by mainelyfoolish on Jul 23, 2015 16:03:03 GMT -5
I agree that the Kohl's game is complicated and stupid, but I still play. When they have their $10 off $30 kids purchases stackable with 30% off and free shipping (for cardholders) and the codes are reusable, I stock up. I think I placed 5 or 6 orders last time they did this at the beginning of summer. I got toddler shirts and shorts for < $3, Carter's big kid pajamas for < $5 a pair. I can't buy used clothes (at a resale store) for that price.
I agree that the Kohl's game is complicated and stupid, but I still play. When they have their $10 off $30 kids purchases stackable with 30% off and free shipping (for cardholders) and the codes are reusable, I stock up. I think I placed 5 or 6 orders last time they did this at the beginning of summer. I got toddler shirts and shorts for < $3, Carter's big kid pajamas for < $5 a pair. I can't buy used clothes (at a resale store) for that price.
I do this too, you can't beat that price on their jumping bean brand. The clothes wash well, and are perfect for daycare clothes. When we potty trained Henry we had to take 10 pair of pants to daycare, so I went to goodwill, they used pants were $4-$8, so I left and went to Kohls and bought new ones for the same price.
Someone should sue Sprint for deceptive pricing, or any of the big cell companies. When I was shopping around I found it impossible to figure out what a bill would be. Cut your bill in half! But pay fees you can't find in the fine print on our website.
This is why we still have flip phones. There are so many hidden charges & fees that our cell bill would more than double if we upgraded.