I totally judged a friend today.

[lg28]

I feel bad. Kinda.

Backstory - her and her DH each make about $90k per year (we talk salary all the time so this is why i know). They each have a good pension as well. So $180k total pre tax. I don't know their specific after tax.

DH makes around $180-$200k a year pre-tax. Around $140k after tax. I am not currently working. We have no pensions so we save a minimum of $30k per year towards that.

So our household salaries are approximately the same.

We own several rental properties. Mostly through our own saving and some through help. These are allowing us some extras but usually we funnel the $ back into real estate as part of our larger savings targets.

So today, my friend comments how unfair it is that I'm going on another "free" work trip for DH. We pay the taxes on them so we usually pay around $4k for a trip valued at $10k. Not free but still awesome.

I said to her - you guys need to do a trip Of some sort. She's like " we aren't rich like you". So I'm like, dude. Our household incomes are roughly the same. We are just very prudent with savings, we have a strict household budget. We live like we make $60k. They could easily do a trip like we do if they stopped some of their random spending. Especially when they don't need tI save as much for retirement because they've got decent pensions.

Her and her husband save no $, buy all brand new stuff, spend a TON of $ on "crap" ie DVDs, knick-knacks, eating out, etc.

What I said was "you know, we have a strict budget that allows us to do some bigger things that we want. Maybe try setting a budget and see if you guys can save for a trip?"

I'm just annoyed that by saving money and getting tondo some cool stuff, people assume we just make buckets of $$. And it's annoying to have friends comment on it that could easily do the same but choose to spend $$ on random stuff.

We are very fortunate. We know that. But we are also super strict with a budget because we want to retire early.

I do feel bad for judging. But I also hate when people make comments about fun stuff we do without seeing the daily sacrifices.

[whiskeyandwine]

1. You do make buckets of money.

2. Time to stop talking about finances with her. For both of you sake.

[cjeanette]

I judge the "we aren't rich like you"

The rest? Meh.

[lg28]

Aug 5, 2015 11:36:44 GMT -5 whiskeyandwine said:

1. You do make buckets of money.

2. Time to stop talking about finances with her. For both of you sake.

You're right.

And I know we make a lot of $$. I'm not saying we don't. Both of our households do.

She often asks for financial advice which is why $$ conversations comes up. I never talk about $$ IRL with anyone else. I save it for the Internet. Lol.

[justjen]

daycare?

[lg28]

Aug 5, 2015 11:41:45 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Didn't you work like, last year? Earlier this year? So you've had a higher HHI than them up until 3 minutes ago. I also feel like you mention rich ILs, which may be some of this "help" you reference that allows you to own rental properties.

I don't know. You both look bad.

Yes. Fwiw she left a higher paying job last year for a job with more holidays but a Lower salary. Our HHI has always been the same, with or without me working.

We both have wealthy and generous family members.

Our life circumstances are ridiculously similar.

I'm just annoyed by the "we aren't rich like you" comment when honestly we are just super strict with spending.

[lg28]

Aug 5, 2015 11:44:03 GMT -5 @this said:

Don't you have an extremely wealthy family? Or a trust fund or something? Am I thinking of the wrong person?

DH does.
She has the same with her family.

[SJ]

I will say that I find it frustrating when people ignore the fact that they have choices. For example "we could never afford xyz". Of course you could, but you would have to cut back on abc. Pretty much everything in life is a choice, and allocation decisions always have trade-offs.

That's as far as I will go. You judged her, but I guess you know that since it was in your title.

If I was your friend, I would not tell you anything about my financial situation.

[lg28]

Aug 5, 2015 11:43:02 GMT -5 justjen said:

daycare?

She has free (parental) daycare. Otherwise absolutely it would be different.

Fwiw I barely said anything in person, other than to try making a budget. I still feel bad I said that at all. I was just annoyed by her comment.

[linz]

My bff and I talk finances all the time. That's fine. But don't comment on how she needs to budget. If she wants help then you can say what you do. Otherwise I'd just ignore her comments.

[kershnic]

You really don't get that your friend is jealous that you get to go on free 10k trips through your husband's work, beyond the fact that he earns alone what two people in her family earn by working FT? Plus you have rental property income? You sound a little out of touch....

[lg28]

Aug 5, 2015 11:45:33 GMT -5 SJ said:

I will say that I find it frustrating when people ignore the fact that they have choices. For example "we could never afford xyz". Of course you could, but you would have to cut back on abc. Pretty much everything in life is a choice, and allocation decisions always have trade-offs.

That's as far as I will go. You judged her, but I guess you know that since it was in your title.

If I was your friend, I would not tell you anything about my financial situation.

You're articulating my feelings better than I could.

I would never judge someone whose life circumstances are different. I realize we are incredibly fortunate, and only some of that is our work/choices. Much of it is luck and or family.

I'm judging this one person who is in a similar situation but makes different choices and then makes me feel bad about the fun stuff we do.

[sparkythelawyer]

I understand being annoyed at the comment, but the "get a budget" comment you fired back at her wasn't much better.

[lg28]

Aug 5, 2015 11:48:28 GMT -5 kershnic said:

You really don't get that your friend is jealous that you get to go on free 10k trips through your husband's work, beyond the fact that he earns alone what two people in her family earn by working FT? Plus you have rental property income? You sound a little out of touch....

You're totally right.

And this is why I post here instead of saying stuff IRL.

[ssmjlm]

I have a hard time feeling bad for people who make their beds and then realize they have to lie in them.

I would probably judge someone who complained about having no money and then told me about the latest x/y/z they bought.

But normally when someone makes a comment about money I just say we prioritize certain things so we can do X.

[lg28]

@littlemoxie

You're also right.

I don't know why I really care, other than her comment. I think I get defensive for no reason.

[Marmee]

Aug 5, 2015 11:48:28 GMT -5 kershnic said:

You really don't get that your friend is jealous that you get to go on free 10k trips through your husband's work, beyond the fact that he earns alone what two people in her family earn by working FT? Plus you have rental property income? You sound a little out of touch....

Yeah, I'd never equate my life (I SAH) as the same as a family who has both parents working fulltime to bring in the same $$.  Plus, you probably said you got "free" work trips & then flippantly act as if they should PAY for what you get (mostly) free like it's no big deal.  

[rugbywife]

Other than a lot of other thoughts...I think it is possible to be jealous of someone getting a trip valued at 10k for 4k, especially if it isn't a one time occurrence.

[ECB]

Look, her comment is a annoying but you have to remember that she can't MAKE you feel bad. That's on you. Why does it upset you?

[Deleted]

You know, its not a bad thing that people value different things than you do. She can value "things" and still be envious that you seemingly get a "free" trip. Hell, even if I had unlimited travel funds, I'd still be jealous of a friend getting a free $10k vacation.

I would've been annoyed at the "get a budget" if I were your friend.

[rugbywife]

Aug 5, 2015 12:01:46 GMT -5 gravytrain225 said:

I understand all of the points everyone has made, but if this couple is really making 180k, I can't feel too too sorry for them that they can't 'afford' vacations.

They aren't making what the OP makes, that for sure, especially after the new income splitting system the govt' set up.

[Velar Fricative]

Why on earth did you post this, lg28? Did you not realize how this thread was going to go?

[lg28]

Aug 5, 2015 12:04:45 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

Aug 5, 2015 12:01:46 GMT -5 gravytrain225 said:

I understand all of the points everyone has made, but if this couple is really making 180k, I can't feel too too sorry for them that they can't 'afford' vacations.

They aren't making what the OP makes, that for sure, especially after the new income splitting system the govt' set up.

The income splitting saved us $2k on income taxes. It's actually possible their take-home pay is higher.
Fwiw I think the income splitting is stupid. It only benefits people like us, who make good $$ and don't need the tax credit.

You're completely right though about the discounted vacation thing though. I would be jealous or someone else getting to do it.

[thejen626]

Huh.

My BFF and I have very similar household incomes. We are both SAHM. In the last few months we both went to Hawaii for a week. DH and I paid for our family and his parents to go. BFF's trip was paid for by Toyota.

You bet your ass I was a little jealous about that. Yes, we both had similar vacations, but we had to pay full price for ours, while their trip was 100% paid for, which she mentioned more than once, also.

Bragging about a "free $10k trip" is always going to be tacky, no matter what your friend's financial status is.

[Deleted]

Well I would agree that > 300k a year is a lot of money. Heck your dh's salary alone is a lot. But that doesn't give her the right to make passive aggressive comments about your spending.

Basically this is why people don't talk about money, lol.

[lg28]

Aug 5, 2015 12:04:00 GMT -5 @marshmallows said:

I'm just not getting how a conversation about how lucky you are to get a trip 60% off turned into you telling her she has to go on vacation. I think that was kind of an overstep and probably led to her feeling defensive.

Ok, without typing out our entire life history, she constantly comments how she wishes she could afford a vacation. But then buys a brand new $80k car and makes fun of me when we buy a 3-year old used car (hyundai sonata) to save money.

[Deleted]

My response would've been "yeah we're very lucky that I'm able to travel with my H and we get to go at a discounted rate."

Why would you judge her for saying something? Even though you pay taxes it's a pretty sweet deal that you get to travel at a discounted rate. Even if someone is making buckets of money it doesn't mean they won't be envious of someone else who else different perks.

Why would you tell her she needs to budget? Even if she budgets she isn't getting any "free" trips like you are. If anything you should be judged for not seeing your own privilege.

[Deleted]

LOL, I have friends I judge.

But I just gossip with mutual friends over wine. I don't post it here.

[rugbywife]

Aug 5, 2015 12:09:25 GMT -5 lg28 said:

Aug 5, 2015 12:04:45 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

They aren't making what the OP makes, that for sure, especially after the new income splitting system the govt' set up.

The income splitting saved us $2k on income taxes. It's actually possible their take-home pay is higher.
Fwiw I think the income splitting is stupid. It only benefits people like us, who make good $$ and don't need the tax credit.

You're completely right though about the discounted vacation thing though. I would be jealous or someone else getting to do it.

Well I can tell you right now they don't bring home 140k out of their 180k gross. So they take home less than you. 

[lg28]

Aug 5, 2015 12:11:21 GMT -5 minniemouse said:

What is income splitting?

A tax break for the rich that Harper enacted as part of his bribe for votes.

We qualify for it.

It didn't work for me though. I am NOT voting for him.