Laughing while black just became a problem

[NewOrleans]

What started as a joyous ride through wine county Saturday afternoon turned into a “humiliating” experience for 11 African American women, who said they were booted off the Napa Valley Wine Train for laughing and talking too loud.

Accounts and pictures of the episode have been spreading across social media, spawning the hashtag #LaughingWhileBlack while the women involved have questioned whether they would have been treated differently if they were not African American.

“It was humiliating. I’m really offended to be quite honest,” said 47-year-old Lisa Johnson, who was among Saturday’s group. “I felt like it was a racist attack on us. I feel like we were being singled out.”


The women have since been given a full refund by the train company, but continue to seek a public apology.

In a statement Sunday, Napa Valley Wine Train spokeswoman Kira Devitt said the company “received complaints from several parties in the same car and after three attempts from staff, requesting that the group keep the noise to an acceptable level, they were removed from the train and offered transportation back to the station in Napa.”

The incident began when Johnson and her book club, the Sisters on the Reading Edge, embarked around 11 a.m. for their annual trip through wine country — an adventure they had been planning since November.

Johnson, a self-described social media fanatic, posted pictures on Facebook, documenting the entire episode as it unfolded.

The women — all wearing matching T-shirts — were all seated in the same car in adjacent tables and seats, laughing and having a good time. They and the other passengers on the sold-out train were ordering tastings and glasses of wine as they rode the 18-mile stretch from Napa to St. Helena through California’s most famous and picturesque vineyards and wineries.

And while the group — which included an 83-year-old grandmother — may at times have been “rambunctious,” they were not “obnoxious or intoxicated,” Johnson said.
Several passengers, she said, even came up to them to take pictures, and asked about the romance novel they were reading for their club.

But a short while into their trip, Johnson said a manager on the train asked them to pipe it down.

“The train is set up to be with your friends, to drink wine and have a good time,” Johnson said. “We were thinking, ‘Who are we offending?’”

Later on, Johnson said the manager told them that “this isn’t going to work,” and that if they didn’t “tone it down,” they were going to be asked to get off the train.

“It was a bizarre thing for all of us,” she said, adding that many in the group quieted down and wondered what had happened.

According to Johnson, one of the women in the same car told the group “this isn’t a bar.” (Voodoo note: wtf! It serves alcohol) “And we though, um, yes it is,” Johnson said. 

What came next, she said, was the worst part of the afternoon. When the train pulled into the St. Helena station, the group had to do the “walk of shame” as they were escorted past passengers on the six other cars, Johnson said. At the station, the group was met by officers from the Napa Valley Railroad and St. Helena police departments.

“People were looking at us,” Johnson said. “To get escorted into the hands of waiting police officers. That’s the humiliating part.”

But Chief Jeff Hullquist of the Napa Valley Railroad Police Department said there “was no police action taken” at the station.

“When someone is removed from a train, they have to be dropped off at a station, and our policy is if someone is let off the train we’ll stand by,” he said. “We keep them safe until someone can get them.”

“The Napa Valley Wine Train does not enjoy removing guests from our trains, but takes these things very seriously in order to ensure the enjoyment and safety of all of our guests,” Devitt said, adding that about once a month guests need to be removed from the train.
Johnson said despite their treatment on the ride, the company has worked with them. They were given a refund, provided with free pictures, and a van was sent to pick them up.
“The people in the station were absolutely wonderful,” she said, ready to let the incident go.
But that’s when someone from the company posted an account of the incident on Facebook. Johnson was miffed.

“Following verbal and physical abuse toward other guests and staff, it was necessary to get our police involved,” the since-deleted post reads in part, which Johnson captured in a screen grab and re-posted to Facebook. “Many groups come on board and celebrate. When those celebrations impact our other guests, we do intervene.”
The post was quickly taken down and the company reached out to the women to make amends, she said.
Devitt said the company is “conducting an internal audit to make sure all of our policies were followed and options were offered.”
“They knew they were out of place,” Johnson said, but added that she “wants a public apology for the humiliations they caused to us as professional women.”

[charminglife]

Physical abuse? That's some racist bullshit right there.

[pixy0stix]

So the business straight up lied in their response? And then took it down. Fuck them.

[iammalcolmx]

So they are saying the women were abusive towards guests and staff, but then took down the Facebook post?

[shanbrite2]

I grew up in Sonoma County, which has some major rivalry its Napa, so I can't say I'm too surprised. Napa people (stereotypes ahoy!) tend to be way snootier, and generally bigger assholes.

One of my good friends who is a linguistics professor has told me that POC are often seen as "loud" even if they are exactly the same "loudness" as nearby white people. I would not be surprised if that played a factor here too (or if that was THE factor).

They better do some really good damage control and bend themselves over backwards for those ladies! That area is pretty darn white and they do NOT want to get a shitty reputation for themselves!

[sfy]

Aug 24, 2015 9:41:32 GMT -5 shanbrite2 said:

One of my good friends who is a linguistics professor has told me that POC are often seen as "loud" even if they are exactly the same "loudness" as nearby white people. I would not be surprised if that played a factor here too (or if that was THE factor).

This is exactly what I was thinking was the primary issue at play here.

And again I ask, can we live?? 

[shanbrite2]

Aug 24, 2015 9:45:02 GMT -5 sfy said:

Aug 24, 2015 9:41:32 GMT -5 shanbrite2 said:

One of my good friends who is a linguistics professor has told me that POC are often seen as "loud" even if they are exactly the same "loudness" as nearby white people. I would not be surprised if that played a factor here too (or if that was THE factor).

This is exactly what I was thinking was the primary issue at play here.

And again I ask, can we live?? 

Apparently only if you sit very quietly, breathe gently, avoid all eye contact, no talking, no drinking on the wine train, and don't ever drive because you might not use a turn signal. maybe just never leave the house?

[jeaniebueller]

I just read this on FB. WTF.

[blink]

This is ridiculous. And claiming physical abuse, seriously? Screw that company.

[AJL]

I hope they're put out of business.

[shanbrite2]

Aug 24, 2015 10:19:19 GMT -5 AJL said:

I hope they're put out of business.

Not gonna happen. It's a major, major institution there. They could make some policy changes and get on their hands and knees to beg for forgiveness (or at least incline their snooty head slightly to apologize).

[kwynn]

I don't understand why you would need to be quiet? Isn't it just sitting and looking out the window and drinking? Seems weird that people wouldn't essentially be partying - I thought that was the point?

[meshaliuknits]

Aug 24, 2015 9:41:32 GMT -5 shanbrite2 said:

I grew up in Sonoma County, which has some major rivalry its Napa, so I can't say I'm too surprised. Napa people (stereotypes ahoy!) tend to be way snootier, and generally bigger assholes.

I'm chuckling at this. A bit further south we assume all you wine country people are snooty.

[starlily]

Aug 24, 2015 10:23:05 GMT -5 shanbrite2 said:

Aug 24, 2015 10:19:19 GMT -5 AJL said:

I hope they're put out of business.

Not gonna happen. It's a major, major institution there. They could make some policy changes and get on their hands and knees to beg for forgiveness (or at least incline their snooty head slightly to apologize).

From my recollection when it first started up, the locals hate the train. The company couldn't get permission to make stops where they would've liked to, which is why the train doesn't visit any wineries.

I don't know what their general reputation is like currently, but I could see some locals putting pressure on them.

[shanbrite2]

Aug 24, 2015 11:02:50 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

Aug 24, 2015 9:41:32 GMT -5 shanbrite2 said:

I grew up in Sonoma County, which has some major rivalry its Napa, so I can't say I'm too surprised. Napa people (stereotypes ahoy!) tend to be way snootier, and generally bigger assholes.

I'm chuckling at this. A bit further south we assume all you wine country people are snooty.

Oh no! There are definite differences in our snootiness! Things may have changed a bit since I lived there, but when I did, all the Sonoma County parades and things strongly emphasized the agricultural and farming roots. Napa only cares about wine and super fancy food. Sonoma was also all about the eggs, apples, sheep, cows, etc. I have strong memories of people in overalls in the parades making fun of themselves

it it also used to be that Napa charged for tasting and Sonoma did not. It used to be a huge point of pride for Sonoma, but I think that has changed too (kinda makes sense). 

Yay Slow-coma! Lol (seriously, do not go to Sonoma for the nightlife. There is none)

[twotrue]

Aug 24, 2015 10:56:23 GMT -5 kwynn said:

I don't understand why you would need to be quiet? Isn't it just sitting and looking out the window and drinking? Seems weird that people wouldn't essentially be partying - I thought that was the point?

I don't know which car the ladies were in but the train is essentially a restaurant on wheels.  The lowest price ticket is $124.  I don't doubt there was an element of racism involved here but as for the train itself I believe the experience/setting they are going for is more like tea at the Ritz and less booze cruise. 

[NitaX]

Aug 24, 2015 10:07:59 GMT -5 shanbrite2 said:

Aug 24, 2015 9:45:02 GMT -5 sfy said:

This is exactly what I was thinking was the primary issue at play here.

And again I ask, can we live?? 

Apparently only if you sit very quietly, breathe gently, avoid all eye contact, no talking, no drinking on the wine train, and don't ever drive because you might not use a turn signal. maybe just never leave the house?

What if I say Yessa Massa?

[mrsukyankee]

I wonder if my white hockey friends and I would be kicked off cause honestly, when we're drinking wine, we're loud. Probably not. Idiots.

[LadySusan]

Aug 24, 2015 9:27:09 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

So they are saying the women were abusive towards guests and staff, but then took down the Facebook post?

They got a screen grab.  Is this grounds for a libel suit?

[heyjude]

Napa!!! Of course Napa!!!!

[1confused1]

I heard on the news that this isn't the first time the train manager has had to remove people from the train for this same type of behavior. I am guessing this is the first time someone called them on it.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 24, 2015 13:38:22 GMT -5 1confused1 said:

I heard on the news that this isn't the first time the train manager has had to remove people from the train for this same type of behavior. I am guessing this is the first time someone called them on it.

They didn't "have to" remove anyone in this case, though.

[iammalcolmx]

Aug 24, 2015 12:14:34 GMT -5 NitaX said:

Aug 24, 2015 10:07:59 GMT -5 shanbrite2 said:

Apparently only if you sit very quietly, breathe gently, avoid all eye contact, no talking, no drinking on the wine train, and don't ever drive because you might not use a turn signal. maybe just never leave the house?

What if I say Yessa Massa?

Sidenote: Do you remember the women who got kicked off of Amtrak for talking loudly on her cellphone for 16 hours? She set us back!! 

[iammalcolmx]

Aug 24, 2015 13:38:22 GMT -5 1confused1 said:

I heard on the news that this isn't the first time the train manager has had to remove people from the train for this same type of behavior. I am guessing this is the first time someone called them on it.

What type of behavior though, laughing?

[1confused1]

Aug 24, 2015 13:41:20 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Aug 24, 2015 13:38:22 GMT -5 1confused1 said:

I heard on the news that this isn't the first time the train manager has had to remove people from the train for this same type of behavior. I am guessing this is the first time someone called them on it.

What type of behavior though, laughing?

The news didn't elaborate, no big surprise.

[meshaliuknits]

Aug 24, 2015 13:56:58 GMT -5 1confused1 said:

Aug 24, 2015 13:41:20 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

What type of behavior though, laughing?

The news didn't elaborate, no big surprise.

I heard they fairly routinely remove drunk folks. Nothing on behavior.

[summer]

I want to hear more about this physical abuse.

[summer]

They do look dangerous!

[NewOrleans]

Aug 24, 2015 18:53:54 GMT -5 tillie said:

Eh, they were asked at least twice ( they say 2, train says 3) to please tone it down. They didn't. It's not a bar.

iammalcolmx NitaX @koko 1234FIF!!

[iammalcolmx]

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