Post by StrawberryBlondie on Sept 20, 2015 11:45:03 GMT -5
I've been chuckling to myself all morning at the thought of my childhood friends calling my mom Mrs. Lastname. That would've blown over like a lead balloon.
DH and I feel very differently about this. I called my friends' parents by their first names and did a quick tap on the door before walking in (if I had been invited over). DH called his friends' parents by their last names and always waited for the door to be answered. He grew up in Indiana, I grew up in Texas.
I think this is a totally regional difference. I absolutely respected adults as a child. Calling them by their first names did not have an impact on that.
I've been chuckling to myself all morning at the thought of my childhood friends calling my mom Mrs. Lastname. That would've blown over like a lead balloon.
My mom corrected my friends early on if they did that. Or did a preemptive strike. "Please call me Sally."
And I'm gonna throw down on this shit because I'm annoyed at this "don't contradict me in front of my kids bullshit."
People who refuse to use the name I prefer to be called get under my damn skin. Names are personal...you dont get to dictate my name to me just because you have a short person following you around.
I'd also feel free to contradict you in front of your kid if you'd just told then to do something else that makes me uncomfortable. Like, sure junior, pet that lady's dog. Nope. Sorry kid. Back up.
Not your dog. Not your name. See the comparison?
You don't like your kid using my preferred name? Don't have him talk to me.
Just have to say, my parents would not have been OK with me calling an adult by just their first name no matter if they said to address them that way.
Yeah, same here, mostly.
Which is why I let the parent, not the kid, know what I'd prefer. They may meet me halfway with ms/auntie sushi. They may insist on Mrs. At the end of the day, it's not my decision, but I'll do my best to let my wishes be known to the adult. It's up to them which lesson they're teaching. If they want to teach all adults are Mrs., fine. If they want to teach that you call a person what they prefer, well, I like that even better.
From this thread I will go forth and instruct my kids to ask the grownup what they would like to be called at introduction.
Fwiw I don't really care THAT much. Ms. Last name would be weird to me but if I don't see you much I'll deal. Where I PERSONALLY have an issue is that Wawa is my preferred name. As opposed to my legal name. So you tell your kid to call me Ms. LegalFirstName and I will correct them.
So I have sympathy for those who have similarly strong feelings about their name in other ways.
Eta on second thought. ..yeah I'm unlikely to correct your kid. I'll correct you instead. Better?
So what if the parent's rule is call everyone Aunt or Uncle? I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of being called someone's aunt when I'm not. That's a formal title of an actual person. I am an aunt, to three people only. It's a closed universe and a special one. If you insist on your kids calling me by a name I'm not comfortable with, that's the rude position. Not the other way around.
I find this to be cultural. In certain areas, it's a title for anyone older than you, not just someone blood related. I've actually come to really appreciate it after living in such a culture. Often it's just auntie/uncle with no name attached, which allows you to treat strangers as family. It's a sign of respect for all elders, essentially. But that's also in those cultures where "it takes a village" is an extremely strong social more. In a way, it's similar to what black folks here have shared about elders in their neighborhood/church/social circle.
I'm willing to be slightly uncomfortable for an overall lesson with kids too young to really get why it's ok to call one by a title and another by a first name. With black and white thinkers due to age, I have to be the more flexible one.
Can I say that if I ask your kid to call me Ms Mesha instead of Ms Liu, I'm not trying to counter anyone's parenting. I'm trying be be called something that makes me comfortable. That's all.
If you ask my kid to call you Ms lastname rather than Ms firstname, I will absolutely enforce that. People should be called the thing they want to be called.
But you are. If you say to a child "No, call me X" when their parent has told them to address adults in a different, particular manner, that is exactly what you are doing. I've said Y, you are saying X; you are countering me. And worse, likely right in front of my kid.
I think you're missing the entire point of teaching kids how to address adults. It's not about making them carry out your rule, it's about treating others respectfully. And respect means calling someone what they want to be called, because it's their name. That's the lesson.
I've been chuckling to myself all morning at the thought of my childhood friends calling my mom Mrs. Lastname. That would've blown over like a lead balloon.
And I have been laughing about some child daring to call my mama Joyce. Just Joyce. I can see her looking around like, "whose no manners-ass-having child is this?"
Haha. And my mom would've been like "Mrs. Lastname was my husband's grandmother and she died 25 years ago."
Yes, if it's all about respecting one's elders (which is a term I'd also love to avoid being called), then why not teach kids to respect what their elders preferred to be referred to as?
I view it no differently than if I introduced myself to someone "Hi, I'm Katherine, but please call me Kate." and they refused to use my preferred name and instead called me "Katherine" because it's their own preference to use everyone's full name. I'm all for teaching children to respect the way people identify themselves (gender, sexual orientation, race, nationality, religion, etc) and name seems no different.
My parents raised me to call people what they wanted to be called.
Growing up on my street, there was "John and Sue" next door, "Ms. Jane" on the other side, "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" down the block, and "Mama Jackie and Papa Joe" across the street and a mix of everything else in between. Those were the names those people wanted to go by, so I was expected to respect their preferences.
There were also houses that had "open door" policies in my neighborhood: Some houses, you were expected to knock, others you were supposed to walk right in. My parents were very "If I didn't want you coming in, I would have locked the door, please don't make me drop what I'm doing to let you in." Some other houses operated like this, others expected you knock and wait for a "grown up" to answer and invite you in.
My interactions with my adult neighbors and their homes were all dependent upon their preferences. So just because I didn't go around calling every adult I met "Mrs. LastName" or walking into certain houses without even knocking on the door doesn't mean I didn't have manners or any house training. I was raised to be respectful of my elders by being raised to be respectful of their preferences
I'm just surprised that's it's killing people to be called "miss/ms" by some children. I see people saying that it makes them uncomfortable, and I understand that because I'm similarly in comfortable being called Mrs. Last name, but ultimately, I'd defer to the parents' rules and just be slightly uneasy all what--20 times in life this kid might address me? Like how often is this really happening? I was called Mrs. Last name twice today by strangers and I'm still breathing . And I'm sure I'm not the only one to be addressed more formally than preferred on occasion. It just doesn't seem worth telling a child to do something which conflicts with the rules of the parent.
The point of not letting 7 year olds talk to 47 year olds the same way they talk to their friends is because the 47 year olds aren't their friends. It's not just some arbitrary rule, but also a way to establish boundaries for people. An easy way for a younger DS to understand who he had to obey was by title because all the adults had titles--Mom, Uncle, Dr., Officer X, Principal Y. It's just drawing a distinction. I wouldn't have let my child call an adult by their first name, the end period, so pick a title and get comfortable with it or yes, as someone else said, my child just wouldn't have said anything to you. I don't see how it's that serious, but I certainly wouldn't have wanted him to be disrespectful in any case.
My default growing up was Mr/Mrs Lastname, but among my closest friends parents we had a mix. Now I typically default to Ms/Mr First name, but I ask if it's people I don't know well what they prefer. So far, most of L's friends call me "Mrs. [L's name]'s Mommy." Ha.
I've been getting a lot of "Mrs. Myhusband'slastname" lately. Since I didn't change my name, I never answer to it unless the person is looking me in the face since I don't recognize it as "mine." I usually correct people to Ms Firstname in such situations so I don't continue to ignore them rudely in the future. But by god it will NOT stick with the kindergarten teacher. Lol.
I'm just surprised that's it's killing people to be called "miss/ms" by some children. I see people saying that it makes them uncomfortable, and I understand that because I'm similarly in comfortable being called Mrs. Last name, but ultimately, I'd defer to the parents' rules and just be slightly uneasy all what--20 times in life this kid might address me? Like how often is this really happening? I was called Mrs. Last name twice today by strangers and I'm still breathing . And I'm sure I'm not the only one to be addressed more formally than preferred on occasion. It just doesn't seem worth telling a child to do something which conflicts with the rules of the parent.
The point of not letting 7 year olds talk to 47 year olds the same way they talk to their friends is because the 47 year olds aren't their friends. It's not just some arbitrary rule, but also a way to establish boundaries.
When I was growing up, certain friends' parents I'd see basically every single day. Sent for them seeing my parents. So at least once a day for 10-13 years?
There was never any question about who was in charge, even with me calling my bff's mom Robin instead of Mrs. Lastname.
I'm just surprised that's it's killing people to be called "miss/ms" by some children. I see people saying that it makes them uncomfortable, and I understand that because I'm similarly in comfortable being called Mrs. Last name, but ultimately, I'd defer to the parents' rules and just be slightly uneasy all what--20 times in life this kid might address me? Like how often is this really happening? I was called Mrs. Last name twice today by strangers and I'm still breathing . And I'm sure I'm not the only one to be addressed more formally than preferred on occasion. It just doesn't seem worth telling a child to do something which conflicts with the rules of the parent.
The point of not letting 7 year olds talk to 47 year olds the same way they talk to their friends is because the 47 year olds aren't their friends. It's not just some arbitrary rule, but also a way to establish boundaries for people. An easy way for a younger DS to understand who he had to obey was by title because all the adults had titles--Mom, Uncle, Dr., Officer X, Principal Y. It's just drawing a distinction. I wouldn't have let my child call an adult by their first name, the end period, so pick a title and get comfortable with it or yes, as someone else said, my child just wouldn't have said anything to you. I don't see how it's that serious, but I certainly wouldn't have wanted him to be disrespectful in any case.
I don't think I've ever put so much thought into this before now. Â Ah well, it gives me a break from painting. Â lol Â
I don't see it as letting a 7 year old talk to a 47 year old the same way they talk to their friends. Â I'm just asking that someone call me Molly. Â Or Miss/Ms Molly or whatever-superficial-title before Molly. Â I'm not asking them to roll up and talk to me like I'm their friend or like they are older than they are and ask me about my date last night or what I think about Trump or could I hand them a beer. Â They still speak to me as children. Â
I'm also not personally speaking about random kids that I'd see once or twice. Â I'm talking about kids that I have a relationship with, even if it's that I'm their parents' friend and I see them more often than not. Â Random kid can address me as whatever and I don't care and probably won't notice and it's definitely not killing me. Â It's rare that a random kid would be be calling me anything but "M'am" or "Ms", since I don't come into contact with random children very often. Â Now that I think about it, most random kids I see in stores address me as "Hi" before they start chatting about random stuff.
But if it's something of a permanent relationship, I'd like to be called by the name I prefer, which goes for anyone, no matter their age. Â
And this is probably a UO and probably where I part company with most here, but I don't believe that certain people are more deserving of respect because of their age or title.  I treat just about everyone I meet with the same basic respect until they prove through words or actions that I was showing too much or too little.  So, mostly everyone is Sir/M'am or Mr/Ms/Mrs  until they introduce themselves to me differently.  But I will respect whatever name someone prefers even if it wouldn't be my first choice or my first instinct. Â
I once knew an older women (50-60's) who worked at a used bookstore I'd spent years going to as a kid/teenager. Â I called her Mrs. LastName. Â Then when I was still a teen, I met and started seriously dating her grandson and she wanted me to call her by her first name. Â It was weird, because that's not how I knew her, but I did it, because she asked and I didn't want to be disrespectful of her wishes. Â Maybe to others, doing what she asked was the disrespectful act, I don't know. Â
Lol.
That's actually probably not an UO on GBCN. It's not just about respect, though, it's also about obedience. We're real takes a village over here. To the extent that an adult isn't instructing my kid to do something wrong or in conflict with my rules, my child has obey adults. So if his friend Michael tells him to go to next door and tell a neighbor something, then obviously, he can say no, but if Mr. Michael, his parents' friend, tells him the same, then he better get next door. So yes, as a basic rule of humanity, I expect my kid to be respectful toward everyone, but the respect for elders is something that comes with a level of deference that isn't necessary for peers.
I'm just surprised that's it's killing people to be called "miss/ms" by some children. I see people saying that it makes them uncomfortable, and I understand that because I'm similarly in comfortable being called Mrs. Last name, but ultimately, I'd defer to the parents' rules and just be slightly uneasy all what--20 times in life this kid might address me? Like how often is this really happening? I was called Mrs. Last name twice today by strangers and I'm still breathing . And I'm sure I'm not the only one to be addressed more formally than preferred on occasion. It just doesn't seem worth telling a child to do something which conflicts with the rules of the parent.
The point of not letting 7 year olds talk to 47 year olds the same way they talk to their friends is because the 47 year olds aren't their friends. It's not just some arbitrary rule, but also a way to establish boundaries.
When I was growing up, certain friends' parents I'd see basically every single day. Sent for them seeing my parents. So at least once a day for 10-13 years?
There was never any question about who was in charge, even with me calling my bff's mom Robin instead of Mrs. Lastname.
Oh okay, some of this might be about the level of familiarity, because my child never saw anyone else's parents everyday...and if he saw someone even close to that often, that would likely put them in Aunt/Uncle category, because we'd have to be quite close for him to see some other adults outside of school as often as he sees his parents. Anyway, my guess is that much of this is cultural. You're just not going to see most black children being that familiar with adults. The adults in question, the parents, some random ass strangers walking down the street who happened to overhear some 7 year old calling a 47 year old Robin, for the most part, few black people would think that's okay.
I'm just surprised that's it's killing people to be called "miss/ms" by some children. I see people saying that it makes them uncomfortable, and I understand that because I'm similarly in comfortable being called Mrs. Last name, but ultimately, I'd defer to the parents' rules and just be slightly uneasy all what--20 times in life this kid might address me? Like how often is this really happening? I was called Mrs. Last name twice today by strangers and I'm still breathing . And I'm sure I'm not the only one to be addressed more formally than preferred on occasion. It just doesn't seem worth telling a child to do something which conflicts with the rules of the parent.
The point of not letting 7 year olds talk to 47 year olds the same way they talk to their friends is because the 47 year olds aren't their friends. It's not just some arbitrary rule, but also a way to establish boundaries for people. An easy way for a younger DS to understand who he had to obey was by title because all the adults had titles--Mom, Uncle, Dr., Officer X, Principal Y. It's just drawing a distinction. I wouldn't have let my child call an adult by their first name, the end period, so pick a title and get comfortable with it or yes, as someone else said, my child just wouldn't have said anything to you. I don't see how it's that serious, but I certainly wouldn't have wanted him to be disrespectful in any case.
I think it's honestly that I don't think of my last name as part of my identity in any way. I felt that way prior to marriage and assumed it was because I shared a last name with my asshole father and wanted to be as far from his legacy as possible, but it continued into my married name as well. The adult my kids see as often as me is a neighbor who has kids their age. We carpool to and from school and the kids are a roving band between the two houses. It would be really weird to see kids daily like that and have them call me Mrs. Lastname. They're in my car at least once a day, spend hours a week playing at my house and occasionally sleep over.
I'm just surprised that's it's killing people to be called "miss/ms" by some children. I see people saying that it makes them uncomfortable, and I understand that because I'm similarly in comfortable being called Mrs. Last name, but ultimately, I'd defer to the parents' rules and just be slightly uneasy all what--20 times in life this kid might address me? Like how often is this really happening? I was called Mrs. Last name twice today by strangers and I'm still breathing . And I'm sure I'm not the only one to be addressed more formally than preferred on occasion. It just doesn't seem worth telling a child to do something which conflicts with the rules of the parent.
The point of not letting 7 year olds talk to 47 year olds the same way they talk to their friends is because the 47 year olds aren't their friends. It's not just some arbitrary rule, but also a way to establish boundaries for people. An easy way for a younger DS to understand who he had to obey was by title because all the adults had titles--Mom, Uncle, Dr., Officer X, Principal Y. It's just drawing a distinction. I wouldn't have let my child call an adult by their first name, the end period, so pick a title and get comfortable with it or yes, as someone else said, my child just wouldn't have said anything to you. I don't see how it's that serious, but I certainly wouldn't have wanted him to be disrespectful in any case.
I think it's honestly that I don't think of my last name as part of my identity in any way. I felt that way prior to marriage and assumed it was because I shared a last name with my asshole father and wanted to be as far from his legacy as possible, but it continued into my married name as well. The adult my kids see as often as me is a neighbor who has kids their age. We carpool to and from school and the kids are a roving band between the two houses. It would be really weird to see kids daily like that and have them call me Mrs. Lastname. They're in my car at least once a day, spend hours a week playing at my house and occasionally sleep over.
I don't like Mrs. last name either. I would take it if a parent said so, but I prefer Miss first name.
I think it's honestly that I don't think of my last name as part of my identity in any way. I felt that way prior to marriage and assumed it was because I shared a last name with my asshole father and wanted to be as far from his legacy as possible, but it continued into my married name as well. The adult my kids see as often as me is a neighbor who has kids their age. We carpool to and from school and the kids are a roving band between the two houses. It would be really weird to see kids daily like that and have them call me Mrs. Lastname. They're in my car at least once a day, spend hours a week playing at my house and occasionally sleep over.
I don't like Mrs. last name either. I would take it if a parent said so, but I prefer Miss first name.
That makes sense. That's not something that's standard here. Here it's Ms/Mrs/Mr. Lastname or your first name. There isn't a convention around here for a formality level in between those. Relatives or very close friends are aunt/uncle.
If I only see your kid once or twice a year, okay fine, you can tell them to call me "Mrs. Tac" or whatever without getting clearance from me. I most certainly will not be "killed" over it (If not being addressed according to my preference could actually kill me, I would have been dead so many years ago). Whatever. If I'm not going to get mad over an adult I next-to-never see using a name I don't prefer, then I can (and will), get over a child I next-to-never see doing the same.
However, if we're close enough friends that I'm seeing your kid on a somewhat regular basis, then I am more than capable of deciding what I wish to be called by your kid. Insisting your kid calls me something I haven't signed off on (Regardless of how "proper" or "respectful" you deem it to be) is not okay, and that includes throwing around "Miss/Mrs/Aunt/Auntie" without my say-so.
I'm not trying to parent kids that are not mine. I just want people (Adults or children) to respect my choices regarding how I want to be addressed.
I grew up in the northeast and always just default to Mr./Mrs Last Name. When I get to know a person better then first names are fine.
If I had kids I imagine this is how I would be. Always use a title as a default until you are told otherwise.
I'm almost 44 and still struggle with the idea of calling certain people by their first names though. If they are a lot older than me and have earned some kind of title that's what I call them. My doctors are always addressed as Doctor Last name even though I've been going to them for years.
And one thing I could NOT get over in the Episcopal church was calling the priest by his first name! So many churches do this. Pastor Bob, Pastor Smith, Father Jones or Father John are all good. Even Mr. if you must. But calling the priest by his first name was just something I can't do. I was told this is common in the south. In New England and New Jersey it was always Father first name. Saying, "Hey Gary" to the priest just feels :?
Old habits die hard! I try to be open minded because I don't want to be one of these "My generation knew the meaning of respect" people.
So, I also have to ask. Am I the only one who doesn't think of themselves as Ms/Mrs Lastname? Like, when my kids friends call me that I have no idea they're talking to me most of the time. They usually have to give up and say "Julia's mom" if they want my attention. I've known MIL since I was 16 and called her Mrs. Lastname until after H and I got engaged, so she's Mrs. Lastname, not me and I'm pretty sure I will always feel that way.
No, I'm that way too. Since my first name has so many nicknames I'll respond to lot of things, bit Mrs. Strawberry isn't even on my radar.
ETA: the idea that I have to let people call me something that I'm not known by, don't like, and won't respond to because some kid's parents say I have to be called that is kind of rude.
Eh, those parents think it is rude to call an adult (no one who would be a contemporary of their child ever) anything but Ms. firstname or lastname. Their kid, their raising.
No, I'm that way too. Since my first name has so many nicknames I'll respond to lot of things, bit Mrs. Strawberry isn't even on my radar.
ETA: the idea that I have to let people call me something that I'm not known by, don't like, and won't respond to because some kid's parents say I have to be called that is kind of rude.
Eh, those parents think it is rude to call an adult (no one who would be a contemporary of their child ever) anything but Ms. firstname or lastname. Their kid, their raising.
Just in case I wasn't clear, I have no issue if someone (child or adult) calls me Mrs. Freckle the first time we meet. But if I respond with "please, call me Strawberry" and person keeps calling me Mrs. Freckle, that's where we have issues.
It's really not unlike if I introduce myself as my name and then someone decides on a nickname and then continues to call me that (which happens all the time). It's rude. I've made my preference known and you're disregarding it for your own preference of what I should go by.
Eh, those parents think it is rude to call an adult (no one who would be a contemporary of their child ever) anything but Ms. firstname or lastname. Their kid, their raising.
Just in case I wasn't clear, I have no issue if someone (child or adult) calls me Mrs. Freckle the first time we meet. But if I respond with "please, call me Strawberry" and person keeps calling me Mrs. Freckle, that's where we have issues.
It's really not unlike if I introduce myself as my name and then someone decides on a nickname and then continues to call me that (which happens all the time). It's rude. I've made my preference known and you're disregarding it for your own preference of what I should go by.
Sorry, I was raised to call someone Mr or Mrs as a sign of respect. Putting me, a child, in a strange place where it is obviously being done not to bug you, but due to my parents is odd to me. It's a kid, not an adult. Nicknames, yes, would be weird but no where near the same.
Just in case I wasn't clear, I have no issue if someone (child or adult) calls me Mrs. Freckle the first time we meet. But if I respond with "please, call me Strawberry" and person keeps calling me Mrs. Freckle, that's where we have issues.
It's really not unlike if I introduce myself as my name and then someone decides on a nickname and then continues to call me that (which happens all the time). It's rude. I've made my preference known and you're disregarding it for your own preference of what I should go by.
But... it's a child. You'd really have "issues" with a child being uncomfortable addressing you as Strawberry? As a kid, I'd have been beyond uncomfortable if an adult asked me to call them by their first name when my parents issued strict orders to call adults Mr. or Mrs. Lastname.
As others have said, I'm sure it's largely regional, but I was raised to address people how they wish to be addressed. And Mrs. Lastname just isn't really a thing here unless you don't know someone at all, so the chances of this being a real life issue for me is slim to none. And I'm probably over-invested in this.
Practically speaking, I just don't go by Mrs. Freckle. I'm not going to realize that person is speaking to me. So I'm probably going to end up inadvertently ignoring that person.
Post by tacosforlife on Sept 21, 2015 9:26:54 GMT -5
This thread just makes me realize how few children I interact with. I really can't recall the last time I talked to a child who was capable of speaking. LOL.
Post by jeaniebueller on Sept 21, 2015 9:30:24 GMT -5
I remember when I was 6, my BFF's mom telling me I could just called her Ann instead of Mrs. XXXXX and I was SO uncomfortable with it. I usually have my DS call my friends Mrs/Mr FirstName and call other adults Mrs/Mr Lastname. If they want to correct it and have him call them by their first name only, that is on them. If a kid addresses me by my first name, I don't care either way. Actually, if someone were to call me Mrs Lastname, I would be looking around for my MIL.
Honestly if someone insisted to me that I call them Firstname, I'd likely have avoided speaking to them altogether.
Exactly.
I've been pondering this. Because I totally avoided addressing most adults by name unless I had some middle ground between FirstName and Mr/Ms. LastName. Both felt weird to me, regardless of what the adult in question requested.
Turns out that what I ACTUALLY think is that everybody should just go with Mr./Ms. FirstName unless you're close enough for Auntie/Uncle/Special Nickname and people who think otherwise are just wrong. I want it to spread north in case we were move back.
So there.
But really, unless I'm going to be hanging out with your kid on a regular basis, I don't actually give a flying fuck. I just think in concept, generally the person who's name it is should get first choice.
(also I've been wracking my brain, and I can't think of a single adult I ever addressed by just their actual legal first name until I was in my late teens. I didn't call any of my mom's friends by Ms. LastName though. And Ms. FirstName wasn't a thing in PA. We had nicknames for everybody, there were a few people that went by their last names and were introduced to me as such, or for reasons I can't explain, I called them by their full name. Like SaraJones. All squished together like that. NO EXPLANATION. And given my mom's social circle (almost all gay, most of them several years younger than her) my sister and I were usually the only kids these people interacted with on a regular basis. I'm curious now if any of them ever wanted us to call them Ms. Lastname and just didn't say anything. )
As an adult, I'll say I would still call my parents' friends or my friends' parents "Mrs. Lastname." Even though I am 32.
YES!!! I have two very close female friends that I have known since we were little kids. They are still MRs. Lastname even though we are 34. I cannot bring myself to call them by their first names.
I get that its regional. I was always taught as a child to call adults by Mr. or Mrs./Ms. Last name, and that is also how I expect children to address me. But I live in a region where that is the default way to address adults by children.
As a child, I have been deeply uncomfortable if I was told to call someone by just firstname. We did call my ballet teacher Miss firstname though.