I have always liked Hilary and assumed I'd vote for her. Recently I realized my views seem even more in alignment with Bernie, so I've been considering him. I still feel that way, but I'm concerned about his ability to get elected. I feel like the debate last night did nothing to make me feel better about that. I don't think he debated as well as I expected, and his demeanor was different than I expected (I guess because I had mostly read about Bernie, not actually seen him). IDK. I feel like Hilary appealed to me a lot more after the debate, which wasn't totally out of left field but surprised me a little.
I knew nothing about O'Malley before last night, and I like him. I don't want him to get the nomination, but I think he'd be a good VP or hold a big role in the future somehow.
Even though I have a greater respect for Bernie now I do totally agree with everything said here. He did not come across as presidential material at all, especially as compared to HRC. Many responses involved "starting a revolution" which WILL NOT win you the WH. I believe in his ideals and I believe he believes in them too. But I am a progressive "who wants to get stuff done" and HRC nailed that idea. Nailed it!
I agree. We need to elect people who can actually govern, and I think she's our best shot. Bernie's old man white privilege is driving me nuts. I agree with a lot of what he says (except when it comes to gun control), but Obama has fought for years go convince people he isn't socialist who is trying to change our way of life. An old white dude can claim that he is exactly that and is trying to do exactly that and people flock to him.
Post by earlgreyhot on Oct 14, 2015 9:04:10 GMT -5
I feel the Bern but am voting Hillary. Which, is where I really always felt but post-debate I feel really confident and good about my choice.
Regarding the other guys...Jim Webb sucks, I have no love for him. O'Malley is solid, like him. Chafee is a great statesman, but doesn't have a presidential bone in his body,
I thought O'Malley knocked it out of the park with his closing remarks (emphasis mine):
"I am very very grateful to be on this stage with this distinguished group of candidates tonight. And what you heard tonight ... was a very very different debate from the sort of debate that you heard from the two presidential republican debates. On this stage you didn't hear anyone denigrate women, you didn't hear anyone make racist comments about new American immigrants. You didn't hear anyone speak ill of another American because of their religious beliefs. What you heard was an honest search for the answers that will move our country forward, to move us to a 100 percent clean electric energy grid by 2050. To take the actions that we have always taken as Americans, so that we can actually attack injustice in our country, employ more of our people, rebuild out cities and towns, educate our children at higher and better levels, and include more of our people in the sociopolitical and economic life of our country. I truly believe that we are standing on the threshold of a new American progress, unless you become discouraged about our gridlock in Congress, talk to our people under 30. You'll never find among them people who want to bash immigrants, people who want to deny rights to gay couples. That tells me we are moving to a more connected, generous, compassionate place, and we need to speak to the goodness within our country."
I don't think he's really a contender for VPOTUS because I don't think he brings extra electoral votes to the table. Overall, I'd say the debate somewhat reaffirmed my faith in humanity - which was starting to seriously wane after two Republican debates. It was refreshing to hear people talk about their records in a semi-meaningful way instead of posturing about who was the biggest "outsider" (read: inexperienced). I don't think it changed the fact that I am hoping for HRC to win the nomination but I did gain a measure of respect for Bernie Sanders and I think he is bringing up stuff that is good for the party to discuss. I especially liked the point he made about how the people need to stand up and demand things from their legislators or nothing will ever get done.
Feeling better about Hillary. I love Bernie's ideas in my idealistic world but reality makes me feel he's not the best candidate for us at this time. More respect for O'Malley. And Jim Webb is a whiny baby who needs to step out of this race now and might as well take Chafee with him.
I love Biden but I hope he doesn't decide to jump in at this point.
Post by One Girl In All The World on Oct 14, 2015 9:38:00 GMT -5
I went into it hoping Hillary would knock it out of the park, and I think she did that. I thought perhaps listening to Bernie would make me more comfortable with him in the event HRC doesn't get the nod, but it did not. He really turned me off. O'Malley surprised me the most, pleasantly. I didn't know how he would play on the national stage, and have also wondered why he didn't opt to run for Mikulski's seat instead, but I think he did well.
I knew little about the other two at all, but found them insufferable.
Hillary SHOWED UP. Damn. She was the only one up there who was 100% poised, confident, passionate and owned that stage. Presidential material. I about died when Sanders did the "old man cup his hand around the ear" to hear a question. Good God.
My H - who has always been wishy-washy on Hillary - was impressed. His reaction after about 15 minutes was "She's the only one up there who has the chops to win."
Hillary SHOWED UP. Damn. She was the only one up there who was 100% poised, confident, passionate and owned that stage. Presidential material.
It's funny that she & Carly were the two in the debates you could say this about (not that I agree with thing Carly said or it was anywhere near truth or reality) but I'm happy to see that both women did well in the debates.
Reminds me of the thread below "work twice as hard to get half as much credit" even though that was applicable to race issues, I think it's a nice summary of our women in the debates.
ETA: Ummmm, according to CNN's FB poll 75% of formerly undecided voters swung toward Sanders, as a result of tonight's debate. "Sick of the damn emails" (ish, sorry, you know the line!) was decidedly the winning line among them.
I do not believe any of these online polls!!! They are in no way scientific. Consider them click bait.
If my fb is any indication, Sanders won over quite a few.
I will give Bernie this -every single candidate opened with a discussion about income inequality, and for the most part, they stayed on that message. That's in no small part the result of Bernie's influence.
I really believe Bernie is making HRC a better candidate and the Democrats a better party. And his email comment was amazing.
If my fb is any indication, Sanders won over quite a few.
It's not. Lol. Berners are Berners. They replace religion with Bernie.
Berners are kind of less crazy Trumpers, in my head. I have had multiple people post some form of "If you aren't voting for Bernie, you are stupid and know nothing about politics." Ummm, actually, my knowledge of politics is precisely WHY I am not voting for Bernie.
Additionally, they make claims against Hillary without any evidence to back it up. Come on, people. Be better than Republicans!
Post by fortnightlily on Oct 14, 2015 9:58:02 GMT -5
To ditto ESF, I've been championing Bernie because I think his voice and credible challenge to Hillary are really important to the party. So I want him to do well in the primary process for as long as possible.
But in the end I think Hillary would make a better President in terms of both working with Congress on a feasible legislative agenda, and in foreign policy. I don't see Bernie going toe-to-toe with adversarial world leaders.
I was impressed with O'Malley, though as kitty said, he doesn't bring much strategically to the election as a VP candidate.
It's not. Lol. Berners are Berners. They replace religion with Bernie.
There are a few specifically that I know either supported a different candidate or supported no candidate before.
One specifically posted how turned off he was that HRC kept talking about how she's a woman.
I feel like I need to respond but haven't had the time to think of something intelligent yet.
I might just say, "Hmmm, 54-56% of the those who have voted Democrat in the past few decades are women, so it's likely that many Democrats do care. Fine if you don't."
The debate made me hopeful and excited. I was beyond impressed with how HRC handled herself, and the "progressive who gets stuff done" really resonated with me. As much as I like a good amount of Bernie's ideas personally, they're too left to really be implemented, and I'm tired of having a government where barely anything gets done. Obviously it's not like Hillary will be a unity horse for the Republicans and Democrats, but I feel like she has a more reasonable approach to things.
I was surprised at how much I didn't like Sanders. Maybe if HRC hadn't kicked ass so much he would have looked better, but the whole time I was wishing Biden was around just so that maybe she would be given a little bit of a run for her money. Sanders just doesn't know how to reach his audience. It's amusing to me that his biggest success of the night (with the email comment) was prefaced by "this probably isn't the most political thing to do". I hope in the second debate he pays attention to that and tries to connect more.
I would love O'Malley as the VP nod for HRC.
Jim Webb made me angry. His petulance was an embarrassment for him and for the party. I wonder if his performance will end his political career. If he was in my state I certainly wouldn't vote for him again.
Chaffee smiled too much. It was all I could look at while he was talking (which, thankfully, wasn't often).
Post by WanderingWinoZ on Oct 14, 2015 10:43:30 GMT -5
I thought HRC did a good job of being forceful & getting her point across without appearing too over-bearing/bitchy/all-the-other-strong-female-stereotypes.
I thought HRC did a good job of being forceful & getting her point across without appearing too over-bearing/bitchy/all-the-other-strong-female-stereotypes.
I want to cry that you, or anyone, actually has to think about how her strength came across. I know it's reality, but it sucks. Nobody thinks Bernie looks "bitchy" or "over-bearing" because he yelled a few times, do they?
Anecdote alert. H is a huge Bernie fan, and besides his socialist ideas his most articulated reason is because "he doesn't talk well." It is precisely the crazy yelling uncle persona that he is drawn to. From what I've seen from others on my FB, this seems to fall into their reasoning as well. And as has been said, it's really not that different from things we hear from Trump supporters.
I thought HRC did a good job of being forceful & getting her point across without appearing too over-bearing/bitchy/all-the-other-strong-female-stereotypes.
I want to cry that you, or anyone, actually has to think about how her strength came across. I know it's reality, but it sucks. Nobody thinks Bernie looks "bitchy" or "over-bearing" because he yelled a few times, do they?
This just makes me frustrated.
Idk. I think we are starting to move towards old white men needing to watch their old white men-ness which is something. My husband wasn't interested in the debate (he claims he is voting for our dog right now - he will probably vote 3rd party) but the only thing he commented on wasn't how HRC came off but now Bernie came off as an angry old white dude. It's not exactly the same but neither of us commented on HRC's tone or how she came off except for saying she did really well.
I was leaning toward Bernie before the debate, and came out with my mind made up. I was disappointed with Hillary's performance, and while Bernie's not as practiced or polished as she, and he stumbled a couple of times, he knew the answers and I liked what he said.
Edited to remove parentheses from the word "performance", since I can't remember why I added the parentheses to begin with!
I was leaning toward Bernie before the debate, and came out with my mind made up. I was disappointed with Hillary's "performance", and while Bernie's not as practiced or polished as she, and he stumbled a couple of times, he knew the answers and I liked what he said.
Why is "performance" in quotes? Are you saying she wasn't genuine and she's putting on an act?
ETA: This isn't snarky, I just don't get why it's in parentheses and what you didn't like about HRC.
If my fb is any indication, Sanders won over quite a few.
It's not. Lol. Berners are Berners. They replace religion with Bernie.
You know, nearly every post I have read recently from you is like this about people that support Bernie.
Sorry I am such an idiotic burner that can't know his own mind because I am too enamoured with him. I pray to the god of Sanders every night you know, right after Jesus. and etc. Its a little dismissive and insulting. Like me saying "well, all the people on this board are just voting HRC cos she has a vagina". Thats why you are voting for her, right? Just because she is a woman? No other reasons? You just love love love her, its like a religion? You can't think any other way? Blinded by her royal girliness? And etc.
You know I like you Heyjude, but I am beginning to wonder if you didn't have some horrific Bernie related thing happen to you lol.
Anyway, as far as the debate went, I thought Bernie did okay, but my enthusiasm for him was dampened a bit by this debate. I was disappointed with his gun control answer - that was lame. HRC did much better, and I am leaning toward her now, although with the banking stuff she was all "my plan is better than the glass seagull" followed by "because it is" lol.