Not sure if this is a dead horse or not (link in post)

[dizzycooks]

www.nytimes.com/2015/11/05/upshot/stressed-tired-rushed-a-portrait-of-the-modern-family.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=2

Does this contribute to why you stay at home or reflect how you feel about work?  What would help your family feel less tired/rushed/stressed?

[cjcouple]

Well, when my kids were babies/toddlers I definitely had the working mom guilt. However I was also carrying an impossible schedule. Commuting 1.5 to 2 hours each way M-F. Leaving at 5:30am and not getting home until 6 most nights after picking up kids from daycare. I quickly made dinner and it was bath and bedtime. It was miserable. Many days were ended in tears.

The job I have now is a great work life balance. Dh gets kids off to school and I head to work for 7. I leave at 3 and am home by 3:30. I have all night with them and don't feel the stress anymore. I don't know if that is because my circumstances improved so much or because my kids are now school aged or a combination of both. Either way it's no longer the case.

I also enjoy working. SAHM was nice but I think I am happiest working.

Disclaimer: I started skimming this article once I hit the percentages. Haha

[quesyrah]

Yep it's part of the reason for me. My husband works non traditional hours and his schedule rotates. It's also nearly impossible for him to leave early (or go in late) should a kid get sick and need to get picked up.

We're lucky though that we can make it on one income. The answer shouldn't have to be SAH spouse or constant stress and chaos.

Better work/life balance, better family leave policies, flexible working schedules etc would help a lot.

I've often thought that as happy as I am at home, if I knew that going to work wasn't going to be a 12 hour day 5 days a week away from my kids while forking over 40% of my income for childcare I might go back to work.

But knowing DH's schedule I would be so stressed out and our quality of life would go down a lot.

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Yes this is a huge reason. I don't think I could balance it all. Of course if it became a financial necessity I would rise to the challenge but I wouldn't voluntarily. I thought it would be easier when the kids were in school but all the school vacation days/weeks, sick days would be a big challenge (outside of paying $400/week for after school care). The luxury of getting all the housework/errands done as well as getting friend time in while the kids are at school/dh is at work is the main motivator.

[jensriot]

I first decided to stay home because i felt i had no time with DD1. I was stressed, exhausted and felt an enormous guilt. I tried to imagine it with 2 kids (which was our plan). I couldn't give my all at work, i had no time with my kid, time for friends didn't exist. I was miserable.

I'm not sure what would have made it better. I did go to part time and that was so much better. I would definitely do that again once all kids are in school.

[momin2013]

It's definitely true for me. I sort of figured I'd take my year off mat leave then go back to work, but now that I think about what our days would look like if I were working full-time, it's not something I'd do by choice, at least not in the near future. I know I would be frazzled, frustrated at the lack of time spent with DS, and do things like cooking, cleaning, etc. completely rushed instead of taking my time like I would rather do. I'm very grateful to be able to stay home right now.

[nicolewi]

A lot of this rings true to me. There are so many individual factors, and with the right variables (commute, hours, family support, employer policies, child care, age of kids), I think two working parents can work out GREAT. And in many cases, even if it's NOT great, there's just no choice financially.

In my case, I felt like we didn't have the right situation to manage both of us continuing to work FT and trying to advance. I mommy-tracked myself a bit a couple years before I left, not being aggressive about seeking promotions or applying for new jobs. I've been pregnant or nursing every year since 2008! DH is self-employed, so family leave policies wouldn't even really affect us, but I did feel like I was handling most things plus working. During slower times, he has better than average flexibility and can help out at non-typical times, which is great. I.e. not leave until 10:30 am. And he helps definitely when he is here. But during busy times, he's gone a TON. Both of us were at least 30 minutes away at any given time, and I was the one who was always responsible for doctor, dental, school events, buying gifts, wrapping gifts, tracking schedules, cooking, laundry, staying home with sick kids, etc. It was just getting to be too much and since I was lucky enough to HAVE a choice, I chose to "lean out" for a while. It was getting increasingly complex as the kids grew, too. We are starting to have school events at preschool AND elementary, plus activities, plus appointments for four kids instead of one or two. We didn't want our kids with child care all day AND some evenings/weekend hours.

I love being at home. But, if there were a close-to-home, part-time position that paid well enough, I would totally do it. I miss contributing financially. I think the article is showing that for many families, it's still "all or nothing." Full time to be able to make child care worth it, get benefits, etc, and if not full-time, it's not worth it financially/hard to find a good part-time option in many fields.

[lala]

When I initially started staying home, no that didn't factor in because with one infant who got to stay home while sitter came to us...it wasn't too bad.

Now that I've been home for 6 years, we are very aware of how easy it makes our lives. Obviously if money became a concern, I'd work. And even now I say if the perfect part time unicorn job appeared, I'd probably try it. But it needs to be 110% perfect for me to complicate our life.

dh actually has a fairly flexible job - or at least constant, m-f he's gone 7-4:45, rarely a late evening, travel even rarer. so we have a pretty good gig going.

His job plus me being home allows is to volunteer & have other interests/activities with church, etc.

As sweet as it all is, with 3 kids, it's still hectic. I really can't imagine full time work right now.

[lala]

Sorry, that was just kind of a train of thought ramble.

[auroraloo]

Staying home didn't make my life easier because I was miserable. I'm so much better when I'm at work. It helps that I'm (this sounds crazy cocky) very good at what I do, and I'm proud of my accomplishments, and my heart melts when my 3 yo says "Mommy teaches people how to read."

I wanted to SAH, because I thought it would make my life less stressful, but it didn't. I'm happy I got the chance to try, and I'm happy for those that make it work, and love it. Best of all worlds.

[lexus]

Nov 4, 2015 19:26:38 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

Staying home didn't make my life easier because I was miserable. I'm so much better when I'm at work. It helps that I'm (this sounds crazy cocky) very good at what I do, and I'm proud of my accomplishments, and my heart melts when my 3 yo says "Mommy teaches people how to read."

I wanted to SAH, because I thought it would make my life less stressful, but it didn't. I'm happy I got the chance to try, and I'm happy for those that make it work, and love it. Best of all worlds.

This is me. I love working with students and helping them discover a love for learning. There were good parts of SAH and I get to enjoy those during summer and when I don't stay late at work. It would be less hectic if I SAH in that (in theory) I could do the housework, make dinner, and spend more time with dd but we couldn't afford this new house or even Have a third child if I did.

[abs]

When I imagine going back to work I seriously get a little panicked. DH is gone from 5:50 am-6/6:15 pm every day. He can work from home every now and then but most sick days/holidays would fall on me. DD gets sick a lot so all my vacation time would go to that. Then throw in cooking dinner, errands, after school activities, and homework and our evenings would be a chaotic mess. Nope. I don't think I would be happy balancing it all. Me staying home is a luxury for both DH and I.

I'd of course go back to work if I needed to. I'm sure we would make it work. But it really doesn't sound appealing.

[quesyrah]

Nov 4, 2015 19:26:38 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

Staying home didn't make my life easier because I was miserable. I'm so much better when I'm at work. It helps that I'm (this sounds crazy cocky) very good at what I do, and I'm proud of my accomplishments, and my heart melts when my 3 yo says "Mommy teaches people how to read."

I wanted to SAH, because I thought it would make my life less stressful, but it didn't. I'm happy I got the chance to try, and I'm happy for those that make it work, and love it. Best of all worlds.

I don't think it's cocky at all. You know when you're good at something. Be proud!

[quesyrah]

Nov 4, 2015 18:52:05 GMT -5 lala said:

When I initially started staying home, no that didn't factor in because with one infant who got to stay home while sitter came to us...it wasn't too bad.

Now that I've been home for 6 years, we are very aware of how easy it makes our lives. Obviously if money became a concern, I'd work. And even now I say if the perfect part time unicorn job appeared, I'd probably try it. But it needs to be 110% perfect for me to complicate our life.

dh actually has a fairly flexible job - or at least constant, m-f he's gone 7-4:45, rarely a late evening, travel even rarer. so we have a pretty good gig going.

His job plus me being home allows is to volunteer & have other interests/activities with church, etc.

As sweet as it all is, with 3 kids, it's still hectic. I really can't imagine full time work right now.

I feel like a schedule like this would make me less hesitant about going back to work.

Right now, we really only have Friday afternoon and Saturdays as a family. DH works Sun-TH so it's all me because his schedule is all over. Friday DS has school 10:05-1:30 so Saturday is our only full day as a family

[cna]

My main motivation came from a personal place. My mother only came around when she felt like it and my dad worked really long hours so we were essentially raised by my grandparents. I wanted my kids to have a parent who was always there for everything so I made it happen.

[auroraloo]

Nov 4, 2015 22:34:18 GMT -5 cna said:

My main motivation came from a personal place. My mother only came around when she felt like it and my dad worked really long hours so we were essentially raised by my grandparents. I wanted my kids to have a parent who was always there for everything so I made it happen.

I'm not insulted, because I know you, but this could be a little insulting to working parents. A working parent is not someone who only comes around when "she felt like it", and even though some homes have two working parents it doesn't mean the kiddos don't have a parent who is always there for everything.  

[auroraloo]

Nov 4, 2015 20:18:44 GMT -5 lexus said:

Nov 4, 2015 19:26:38 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

Staying home didn't make my life easier because I was miserable. I'm so much better when I'm at work. It helps that I'm (this sounds crazy cocky) very good at what I do, and I'm proud of my accomplishments, and my heart melts when my 3 yo says "Mommy teaches people how to read."

I wanted to SAH, because I thought it would make my life less stressful, but it didn't. I'm happy I got the chance to try, and I'm happy for those that make it work, and love it. Best of all worlds.

This is me. I love working with students and helping them discover a love for learning. There were good parts of SAH and I get to enjoy those during summer and when I don't stay late at work. It would be less hectic if I SAH in that (in theory) I could do the housework, make dinner, and spend more time with dd but we couldn't afford this new house or even Have a third child if I did.

Yes. Having the summers is a great balance. 

[lala]

I think part of the equation has to be what the career in question is. I read the discussion on the article over on MMM and it was pretty interesting. Some things I wouldn't have thought of and also lots of discussion about how work creeps into our lives outside of work.

It is interesting to me that a few of us here that are happy to be working and find that less stressful are also teachers. I think the work creep is there; but more time "off" than other jobs maybe. Less stress about what to do w/ older kids during summer, christmas break, etc.

[NandaB]

Nov 4, 2015 22:51:26 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

Nov 4, 2015 22:34:18 GMT -5 cna said:

My main motivation came from a personal place. My mother only came around when she felt like it and my dad worked really long hours so we were essentially raised by my grandparents. I wanted my kids to have a parent who was always there for everything so I made it happen.

I'm not insulted, because I know you, but this could be a little insulting to working parents. A working parent is not someone who only comes around when "she felt like it", and even though some homes have two working parents it doesn't mean the kiddos don't have a parent who is always there for everything.  

I'm pretty positive she didn't just mean her mom worked a lot. I think she literally means her mom was not present at all or an active parent.

[mamaalysson]

Nov 4, 2015 20:58:01 GMT -5 abs said:

When I imagine going back to work I seriously get a little panicked. DH is gone from 5:50 am-6/6:15 pm every day. He can work from home every now and then but most sick days/holidays would fall on me. DD gets sick a lot so all my vacation time would go to that. Then throw in cooking dinner, errands, after school activities, and homework and our evenings would be a chaotic mess. Nope. I don't think I would be happy balancing it all. Me staying home is a luxury for both DH and I.

I'd of course go back to work if I needed to. I'm sure we would make it work. But it really doesn't sound appealing.

Yes, I get the panic too. I worked DD's first year, and it should have been the ideal situation: teaching MTW, my best friend watched DD at her house five minutes from school, and I had half the week with her. But, man, that year was tough. Some of it was PPD, some of it was DH and I learning how our new family worked, but all I really remember from her first year is feeling overwhelmed and unsupported and like I was failing at absolutely everything. I sobbed so much that year, and was so stressed, and just missed my baby so so much. I loved my job, and truly did not see myself as a full time SAHM, but now I can't imagine our family any other way. DH's job can be unpredictable and the hours can go long with very little warning. He has some flexibility for taking time off for family things, but things just run so much smoother not even having that as an issue. Even if/when I go back, his career will always be the career that pays for our life and gives us the most options for our future, so it just makes sense that that is the career that is more heavily supported right now. And I honestly really, really love being at home. I don't see that changing for a looong time.

[cna]

Nov 4, 2015 22:51:26 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

Nov 4, 2015 22:34:18 GMT -5 cna said:

My main motivation came from a personal place. My mother only came around when she felt like it and my dad worked really long hours so we were essentially raised by my grandparents. I wanted my kids to have a parent who was always there for everything so I made it happen.

I'm not insulted, because I know you, but this could be a little insulting to working parents. A working parent is not someone who only comes around when "she felt like it", and even though some homes have two working parents it doesn't mean the kiddos don't have a parent who is always there for everything.  

And that was why I said it comes from a personal place and shared the reasoning for that decision. I don't hold anything against working parents and you do what you have to and I respect that.

My thing is that I literally didn't have a parent there for a lot of things that other working parents were there for and that really hurt most of the time. My grandparents were awesome but sometimes you just need your mom or your dad, and for me one was nowhere to be found and the other was working overtime to pay the bills. Like I said, it's a personal thing and not in any way a jab at working parents.

[cna]

Nov 4, 2015 23:05:40 GMT -5 NandaB said:

Nov 4, 2015 22:51:26 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

I'm not insulted, because I know you, but this could be a little insulting to working parents. A working parent is not someone who only comes around when "she felt like it", and even though some homes have two working parents it doesn't mean the kiddos don't have a parent who is always there for everything.  

I'm pretty positive she didn't just mean her mom worked a lot. I think she literally means her mom was not present at all or an active parent.

Exactly. My mother walked out on us when I was really young and for years she only came around when she felt like it. When she did take us she usually dropped us off with a friend so she could go out and party.

[Deleted]

Nov 4, 2015 23:29:03 GMT -5 cna said:

Nov 4, 2015 23:05:40 GMT -5 NandaB said:

I'm pretty positive she didn't just mean her mom worked a lot. I think she literally means her mom was not present at all or an active parent.

Exactly. My mother walked out on us when I was really young and for years she only came around when she felt like it. When she did take us she usually dropped us off with a friend so she could go out and party.

I'm sorry cna my mom walked out on me when I was 1.5 an it was so hard growing up without a mom. My mom did drugs and finally got sober later (got a 12 step type letter) when I turned 21 and that was it. It's not easy.

[cna]

Nov 4, 2015 23:41:42 GMT -5 @itsbritt said:

Nov 4, 2015 23:29:03 GMT -5 cna said:

Exactly. My mother walked out on us when I was really young and for years she only came around when she felt like it. When she did take us she usually dropped us off with a friend so she could go out and party.

I'm sorry cna my mom walked out on me when I was 1.5 an it was so hard growing up without a mom. My mom did drugs and finally got sober later (got a 12 step type letter) when I turned 21 and that was it. It's not easy.

Mine is an alcoholic. She actually left the day before my brother's birthday to be with the guy she had been cheating on my dad with. Said she was going to the store for candy canes and just didn't come back. My brother still can't forgive her.

[Deleted]

Nov 4, 2015 23:48:34 GMT -5 cna said:

Nov 4, 2015 23:41:42 GMT -5 @itsbritt said:

I'm sorry cna my mom walked out on me when I was 1.5 an it was so hard growing up without a mom. My mom did drugs and finally got sober later (got a 12 step type letter) when I turned 21 and that was it. It's not easy.

Mine is an alcoholic. She actually left the day before my brother's birthday to be with the guy she had been cheating on my dad with. Said she was going to the store for candy canes and just didn't come back. My brother still can't forgive her.

I can totally understand why your brother feels that way. The only other time I heard from my mom was she was supposed to visit for my fifth bday and I waited all day and she didn't come or call. Hugs, it's a lot to live with

[Deleted]

I wish I could find something part-time, for financial and mental health reasons. I'm home mostly because we moved across the country, so I lost all my work connections, then I got pregnant 6 months after we moved. I tried to find work, but it's a tough market where I am, and I didn't think it would be fair to accept a job, knowing I'd be on maternity leave shortly after being hired. (I'm Canadian, so one year mat leave). We're on a tight budget, but it doesn't make much sense for me to work because most of it would just pay for child care. It's definitely a screwed up system, though.

I also feel like life is hectic being home. I mean, yes I can throw a couple of loads of laundry in during the day, but I'm not going to get a bunch of heavy cleaning or big errands done. And with two toddlers at home all day there's 100x more mess around every day. So I think it's just hectic no matter what.

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Nov 4, 2015 23:48:34 GMT -5 cna said:

Nov 4, 2015 23:41:42 GMT -5 @itsbritt said:

I'm sorry cna my mom walked out on me when I was 1.5 an it was so hard growing up without a mom. My mom did drugs and finally got sober later (got a 12 step type letter) when I turned 21 and that was it. It's not easy.

Mine is an alcoholic. She actually left the day before my brother's birthday to be with the guy she had been cheating on my dad with. Said she was going to the store for candy canes and just didn't come back. My brother still can't forgive her.

You literally just described my childhood minus the fact I haven't seen my biological mom since I was 10. She has reached out but I'm more like your brother. I won't go back to a 9-5 job (or really any job that didn't allow me the most flexible of schedules to be scheduled a night the kids have nothing going on).

[abs]

I also find it interesting that those that seem the happiest are teachers! That is wonderful. Perhaps it has to do with seeing results every day? Like seeing a child finally have success with reading? I can imagine that is super rewarding. My old job of managing a retail store? Not so much, lol.

The job carry over creep is another factor in me being home. It is not uncommon at all for DH to have to do some work on Saturday or take a conference call on his "vacation" day or after DD's bedtime. His work/home life balance is atrocious and I know he really appreciates not having to worry about cleaning or grocery store visits on top of it. The carry over creep btw totally pisses me off. Nothing he does at work is so super important that it can't wait! It's the new culture though.

If the perfect unicorn job appeared I would try it. However, I'd need to be home by 3:30 or 4:00 every day and have the flexibility to take off when needed. When I was a store manager I had several employees that worked for me 9-2 M-F and only one Saturday or Sunday a week during the summer. I would consider an arrangement like that in the future but I'm not sure the pay would be worth it. I would do it only to combat boredom.

[dizzycooks]

Nov 5, 2015 7:51:49 GMT -5 abs said:

I also find it interesting that those that seem the happiest are teachers! That is wonderful. Perhaps it has to do with seeing results every day? Like seeing a child finally have success with reading? I can imagine that is super rewarding. My old job of managing a retail store? Not so much, lol.

I do think the results help.  You feel like you're making an impact.  Kids come back to say hi or thank you for something.  That helps.  I do think there's creep in teaching though too.  I spend time working at least every other night and sometimes I have to say no to it and the grades or fancy plans have to wait because when I'm home that time needs to be for my family, even if that means folding laundry.  It does frustrate me because I feel like I half-ass both worlds a lot of the time.  


I'm wondering if I'll feel differently when my kids take the bus home after school and I don't have to do pick up (currently I've got dh doing drop off!).  Not making that extra jog out of the way seems amazing and then we are all just home.  I honestly don't know how families do sports and activities.  Swimming at 4:30 one day a week is seriously all I can handle right now.


The job carry over creep is another factor in me being home. It is not uncommon at all for DH to have to do some work on Saturday or take a conference call on his "vacation" day or after DD's bedtime. His work/home life balance is atrocious and I know he really appreciates not having to worry about cleaning or grocery store visits on top of it. The carry over creep btw totally pisses me off. Nothing he does at work is so super important that it can't wait! It's the new culture though.

Oooohhhh, conference calls and checking in on the weekend.  This is a new reality for dh and I HATE it.  I am working really hard not to be pissy about it, because I know he'd rather be with the girls and I, but something about trying to keep them quiet or away from him most of the day on Sunday is irritating.   Frankly, I have work I could do during that time too, but instead I get childcare duty.  Explain that to me.  As mamaalysson said, I do try to keep in mind that it's his career that makes our life possible in most ways so it does end up being the priority, but stay out of my weekends!

On another note, does anyone else find it amusing that men think they do 50% of the housework/childcare? And women keep the mental checklist of how the house runs and make all the appointments?  Does anyone's husband even have a clue about that?  

[cabbagecabbage]

These weren't my motivations to SAH going into it but now that I do (minus a few hours at pt jobs) I see that me working would have meant more stress to our lives.

I realized this when I was job searching this year and was offered a 25 hour a week night job. The money I would have earned would not have been worth it to me in exchange for missing half of bedtimes, the increased groceries/restaurant bills from DH handling dinner, paying a babysitter to cover a two hour gap, etc. But it was a job not a calling. The logistics were exhausting and I had a moment of clarity about the privilege of peace and calm I have from SAH, which is hilarious since I feel I'm always frazzled and yelling.

DH's job is long hours with non-traditional days off. Certain careers basically necessitate a spouse to carry a burden unless you're a single person. My husband couldn't be as good at his job or advancing like he is if I wasn't behind the scenes. It really screws over partnered women who want to advance in those careers unless that have a spouse interested in fully running a household.

I was raised by a single mom who worked a ton. I never resented that. I was glad to be fed after all. I never felt I had less of a mom than anyone else. We did have a very hectic house full of chaos I would not choose for myself and I'm sure that contributed to me seeking out a calmer paced life.