Thanks everyone. I'm pretty sure you're right. While it's never been amazing, we really are in a rut. No, we don't have date nights (no babysitter) and the thought of making the effort myself turns me off more. It's always me. He kind of wanted to go to the silent auction & dance fundraiser for the school and I said sure, if he found a babysitter. He didn't even try.
I'll see what our EAP has available as a start, at least for me, but I think it will need to be joint to get through to him.
Back 8 years ago we hit a rut and did a few sessions with someone and one of the suggestions was that we take turns planning date nights. My DH took it pretty seriously and did plan his share of the dates. They were NOT what I would have planned but I really enjoyed having the break from owning that function. I don't think people always realize that one nice aspect of "dating" is not having to plan it all the time.
For the most part I plan 95% of our lives and I'm far less bothered by it than I was a few years back. I make all the babysitting arrangements regardless of why there is a need for them. I even work with my husbands parents directly since they do 50% of the sitting since it is far easier than going through him . DH did plan most of our long weekend away and it was lovely and a much needed break for me.
I want to get here to a time of acceptance. I am not there, and I also don't want our kids (all boys) to learn that women do most of the day-to-day work of planning. How did you get there and do you reconcile the planning work you do with other "work" that your DH typically does?
I think human relationships are very complicated and ever evolving such that pat one liners such as "not staying married for the kids" as a general rule of thumb are not appropriate. There are a lot of factors that go into the equation of "should I stay married to this person or not?" To that end there are a lot of factors that go into making a happy marriage. I think everything you are describing in terms of your feelings sound normal and also not insurmountable. I do think if you have kids you have to try a bit harder and weigh the factors in your equation a little more seriously because, frankly, there are more feelings on the line that are affected by your actions.
I will say "the daycare years" are hard. Two working parents. A kid. A house. A marriage. It's all very difficult. And making friends with someone who represents the opposite of all that feels appealing. But it's surface level only. And you seem to realize this. So that's a good sign.
IANAP, but I think this is a common problem in marriages with kids. Heck, it's an issue in my childless marriage. If I didn't plan outings, we'd probably do nothing but watch Netflix every night for the rest of our lives. I've expressed my frustration with this before, and frankly I probably need to do it again. He considers sitting on the couch with me to be quality time. My definition is a little different.
I'm currently reading a book about women and psychology. I'm only in the beginning, but one of the big issues that the authors are exploring is that in our culture, women have essentially done the heavy psychological lifting. I think this can be an issue in all marriages - women do so much of the mental and emotional work of keeping things running. But in a lot of ways, I see this in my friends with kids even more, with things like the burden of securing childcare falling to mom.
This is something that will take work, but I definitely think it can be improved with communication and possibly counseling. Your husband needs to understand that you need to feel WANTED, not just NEEDED. (Heck, he may feel the same way.) Part of that is taking initiative to get out of ruts. Our relationships fall into routine, and frankly that's necessary - it's not practical to have a long, drawn out discussion of who is going to make breakfast each morning. Someone has to just fucking DO IT. But we also need to shake things up from time to time, and the changing up of the routine needs to be a team effort.
I agree with KateAggie that it sounds like you have a very solid foundation, so I think this is fixable. And I'm very interested to look into the suggestions ESF offered.
My mom has been saying this for years. I hate that it's so very true.
Pew recently released the results of a survey that found a big difference in the perceptions of working mothers and fathers about who does more housework. Working fathers were about twice as likely to report an equal division of household labor than working mothers.
My theory is that women perceive they do more because they do more mental work. I see this in my own household. Even if my H and I spend the exact same amount of time physically doing tasks, I'm the one who's constantly thinking about what needs to be done. He is more than happy to do just about any household task, but he would use the same towel for a month if I didn't take the initiative to put them in the laundry.
Pew recently released the results of a survey that found a big difference in the perceptions of working mothers and fathers about who does more housework. Working fathers were about twice as likely to report an equal division of household labor than working mothers.
My theory is that women perceive they do more because they do more mental work. I see this in my own household. Even if my H and I spend the exact same amount of time physically doing tasks, I'm the one who's constantly thinking about what needs to be done. He is more than happy to do just about any household task, but he would use the same towel for a month if I didn't take the initiative to put them in the laundry.
NYT or WSJ had an article about this a year or two ago - that basically women/mothers (it was about parents specifically) were always thinking about their kids, so time away was still time spent parenting. And it didn't mean that women become moms and are incapable of discussing things other than kids. Btu I'm constantly running the boys' schedules through my head - in terms of who needs laundry done when, how are we on diapers, how are we on wipes, how are we on milk, do I need to run the dishwasher so we have cups for daycare, do they have winter coats that fit, WHERE are their winter coats, what about the carseats, will they need new ones or can I use DS1's old one for DS2, and if they need new carseats/strollers/carriers/anything at all, I'm the one researching it and figuring out WHICH one they need. It is exhausting. I try to pass some of the mental stuff off but its hard. Anyway it was a very interesting article and one I cannot find again for the life of me lol.
H is in charge of researching any purchase. He will certainly be in charge of researching car seats and the like when mini tacos come along.
But the day to day mental stuff? I know when he gets paid, but I swear to god, he asked me three times this morning when I get paid next. I told him twice this weekend what we are doing for dinner this week. Today's conversation:
H: So we're having leftover Italian sausage tonight?
Me: Green bean casserole.
H: And Italian sausage?
Me: No, Polish sausage.
I mean, JESUS, dr.tacos. We just ate this on SATURDAY, and we're having leftovers. Did you already forget that?
Don't even get me started on how many times I've told him my mom is coming to visit Friday. "Wait, when is your mom coming again?"
You know DH and I have been having the discussion about whether we should stay in our house or move. Well it's more like I have been having the discussion and DH is just along for the ride.
I bring this up in a number of small ways in random conversations, and when I did it again this weekend he actually looked at me like "are you still thinking about that?".
In my head I was taking a frying pan and going Rapunzel on his ass. But yeah that discussion finally came to a boiling point this weekend that I wouldn't be thinking about it so much if HE was thinking about it ever! I mean it's just long-term planning here. Nothing major.
Post by hopecounts on Nov 30, 2015 12:47:26 GMT -5
I'm kind of your H, I'm an introvert and can easily slide into not making enough effort despite being in love with him, my default is just not that. My DH called me on it nicely and told me what would make him feel more valued and I listened and we are in a really good place. Please don't hesitate to talk to him, he may just be oblivious and a simple conversation could make him see that and things could get better. For us DH wanted more time hanging out sans devices so we set 3 nights a week where we watch tv/read/etc together without our phones, which has led to more talking and connecting. This may be a fairly easy fix so talk to him.
My mom has been saying this for years. I hate that it's so very true.
Pew recently released the results of a survey that found a big difference in the perceptions of working mothers and fathers about who does more housework. Working fathers were about twice as likely to report an equal division of household labor than working mothers.
My theory is that women perceive they do more because they do more mental work. I see this in my own household. Even if my H and I spend the exact same amount of time physically doing tasks, I'm the one who's constantly thinking about what needs to be done. He is more than happy to do just about any household task, but he would use the same towel for a month if I didn't take the initiative to put them in the laundry.
Thank you for that link. The following excerpt annoys me:
This analysis shows that while full-time working moms spend more time than full-time working dads on parenting and household tasks, the difference is modest. For example, mothers who work full time spend an average of 11.9 hours per week, or 1.7 hours per day, on housework, compared with 1.2 hours per day among fathers who work full time.
When it comes to child care activities, including managing schedules, driving kids to activities, providing physical care, and helping with homework, full-time working moms spend an average of 1.4 hours per day, just slightly more than the 1 hour per day full-time working dads spend on these activities.
If you take those two things together, that's nearly an entire extra hour that moms are dealing with kids or house every day. When you only have a few hours between coming home and getting into bed, one hour is a significant amount of time.
I also agree that moms do a lot of the mental work. One of the reasons it was so special when DH proposed is that he did all of the planning for the weekend. I don't think he's planned anything since! Even something as simple as grocery shopping. He'll do the shopping, as long as I make a painfully detailed list, which I'd argue takes more "work" than actually shopping (especially since the kids won't go with him!).
Pew recently released the results of a survey that found a big difference in the perceptions of working mothers and fathers about who does more housework. Working fathers were about twice as likely to report an equal division of household labor than working mothers.
My theory is that women perceive they do more because they do more mental work. I see this in my own household. Even if my H and I spend the exact same amount of time physically doing tasks, I'm the one who's constantly thinking about what needs to be done. He is more than happy to do just about any household task, but he would use the same towel for a month if I didn't take the initiative to put them in the laundry.
Thank you for that link. The following excerpt annoys me:
This analysis shows that while full-time working moms spend more time than full-time working dads on parenting and household tasks, the difference is modest. For example, mothers who work full time spend an average of 11.9 hours per week, or 1.7 hours per day, on housework, compared with 1.2 hours per day among fathers who work full time.
When it comes to child care activities, including managing schedules, driving kids to activities, providing physical care, and helping with homework, full-time working moms spend an average of 1.4 hours per day, just slightly more than the 1 hour per day full-time working dads spend on these activities.
If you take those two things together, that's nearly an entire extra hour that moms are dealing with kids or house every day. When you only have a few hours between coming home and getting into bed, one hour is a significant amount of time.
I also agree that moms do a lot of the mental work. One of the reasons it was so special when DH proposed is that he did all of the planning for the weekend. I don't think he's planned anything since! Even something as simple as grocery shopping. He'll do the shopping, as long as I make a painfully detailed list, which I'd argue takes more "work" than actually shopping (especially since the kids won't go with him!).
We have this problem too. How is grocery shopping that hard?! Figure out what you want to eat for the week, look in the fridge, freezer and pantry, make a list of missing items!! But if I'm not the one makes the list he comes home with a bunch of food, but almost nothing to make dinner with. There will be ingredients for say spaghetti, and some chicken breasts and garlic along with the hodge podge of random foods he's collected. What were you planning on serving with the chicken? What were you planning on eating the rest of the week for dinner? And why did you buy another bottle of syrup when there are already two in the pantry?
IANAP, but I think this is a common problem in marriages with kids. Heck, it's an issue in my childless marriage. If I didn't plan outings, we'd probably do nothing but watch Netflix every night for the rest of our lives. I've expressed my frustration with this before, and frankly I probably need to do it again. He considers sitting on the couch with me to be quality time. My definition is a little different.
I'm currently reading a book about women and psychology. I'm only in the beginning, but one of the big issues that the authors are exploring is that in our culture, women have essentially done the heavy psychological lifting. I think this can be an issue in all marriages - women do so much of the mental and emotional work of keeping things running. But in a lot of ways, I see this in my friends with kids even more, with things like the burden of securing childcare falling to mom.
This is something that will take work, but I definitely think it can be improved with communication and possibly counseling. Your husband needs to understand that you need to feel WANTED, not just NEEDED. (Heck, he may feel the same way.) Part of that is taking initiative to get out of ruts. Our relationships fall into routine, and frankly that's necessary - it's not practical to have a long, drawn out discussion of who is going to make breakfast each morning. Someone has to just fucking DO IT. But we also need to shake things up from time to time, and the changing up of the routine needs to be a team effort.
I agree with KateAggie that it sounds like you have a very solid foundation, so I think this is fixable. And I'm very interested to look into the suggestions ESF offered.
My mom has been saying this for years. I hate that it's so very true.
This has been the revolving theme in my counseling sessions.
I get pissed because I am the primary income earner, have the MUCH more stressful job, have so many demands on me, and yet I am also the primary parent (which pisses DH off when I say it but it's so very true), the primary home manager (bills/chores/etc), etc. DH was an only child and has lots of "me" needs and I get exhausted.
My counselor has suggested many ways for me to get what I want out of my husband, which takes work and effort and sort of feels manipulative. Kind of like the "care and feeding of husbands" book. That shit really works on my husband. And it pisses me off.
I want to know why I have to do all the heavy lifting on EVERY MOTHERFUCKING THING!?!
But then sometimes there are so many things my husband does right that I think I'm an asshole for feeling that way. I should just tell him what I need and only get mad at him if he refuses to help.
In the end, I ask my counselor, "if I were a man and the primary bread winner none of this would be an issue so why isn't turn around fair play" and she is kinda like, "because it is - so suck it up buttercup or leave the marriage but you aren't changing him and most of the men in the world are like this so you are likely to find yourself in this same situation - you need to work it to your advantage. And no that isn't fire but life isn't fair and who told you it would be?" LOL. I actually like that she calls me on it and reminds me that my unwillingness to accept reality is the source of my unhappiness and I need to stop being so stubborn and use the tools that get him to give me what I want because isn't happiness what I want in the end? And help with the motherfucking chores?
I am not going to tell you to stay in an unhappy marriage. But. I would just caution that what seems fun and flirty and exciting and whatever with this other guy ... that shit wears off really quickly when you're waking up next to his morning breath, and he's leaving his dirty dishes in the sink for the billionth time, or he's farting next to you in his sleep. The excitement you feel from this other guy is not how marriage "should" be. It's how all new relationships are.
I would advise discussing this in counseling. Be as honest as you feel you can be. What you're missing from your H, TELL HIM about it. Lose daycare guy's number. He has no part in your marriage.
OP, I have no better words of wisdom than these as far as your situation goes.
Two books that were helpful for me were the one already mentioned, "Too good to leave, too bad to stay," which helped me leave a former love, and then "His needs, Her needs," which has helped me identify and voice my needs to my husband better - and he steps up to meet them (sometimes, lol). :-)
The second book is based on an old fashioned idea of what typical men need and what typical women need. At first it turned me off because of that. But then that helped me find my voice as well because my DH has the typical male needs. I have some different needs from many females which are much more aligned with his own. So point out that I'm not a traditional woman in my needs set helped us examine how to be better partners to each other too.
Back 8 years ago we hit a rut and did a few sessions with someone and one of the suggestions was that we take turns planning date nights. My DH took it pretty seriously and did plan his share of the dates. They were NOT what I would have planned but I really enjoyed having the break from owning that function. I don't think people always realize that one nice aspect of "dating" is not having to plan it all the time.
For the most part I plan 95% of our lives and I'm far less bothered by it than I was a few years back. I make all the babysitting arrangements regardless of why there is a need for them. I even work with my husbands parents directly since they do 50% of the sitting since it is far easier than going through him . DH did plan most of our long weekend away and it was lovely and a much needed break for me.
I want to get here to a time of acceptance. I am not there, and I also don't want our kids (all boys) to learn that women do most of the day-to-day work of planning. How did you get there and do you reconcile the planning work you do with other "work" that your DH typically does?
I haven't really worried about the gender messages my kids get. I'm generally just a good planner and so I take it on because I'm skilled at it vs. because I'm a woman. I'm not really that sure the kids know who does what to be honest. DH does a lot and he tends to take on the larger one of things that come up. He did 90% of the work associated with out house project. He also does out annual taxes and pays the property taxes and deals with trash if he doesn't work late on trash night.
There are in my mind roughly two ways to run your marriage -- committee style or spheres of expertise. Committee style is great for the sense of balance that people desire but it means that EVERYTHING takes longer to address. DH and I each own several routine tasks and only have detailed conversations about one off things. It is generally less stressful for me to have it that way. If I felt like my plate of overfull I could simply ask him to take over something.
Pew recently released the results of a survey that found a big difference in the perceptions of working mothers and fathers about who does more housework. Working fathers were about twice as likely to report an equal division of household labor than working mothers.
My theory is that women perceive they do more because they do more mental work. I see this in my own household. Even if my H and I spend the exact same amount of time physically doing tasks, I'm the one who's constantly thinking about what needs to be done. He is more than happy to do just about any household task, but he would use the same towel for a month if I didn't take the initiative to put them in the laundry.
NYT or WSJ had an article about this a year or two ago - that basically women/mothers (it was about parents specifically) were always thinking about their kids, so time away was still time spent parenting. And it didn't mean that women become moms and are incapable of discussing things other than kids. Btu I'm constantly running the boys' schedules through my head - in terms of who needs laundry done when, how are we on diapers, how are we on wipes, how are we on milk, do I need to run the dishwasher so we have cups for daycare, do they have winter coats that fit, WHERE are their winter coats, what about the carseats, will they need new ones or can I use DS1's old one for DS2, and if they need new carseats/strollers/carriers/anything at all, I'm the one researching it and figuring out WHICH one they need. It is exhausting. I try to pass some of the mental stuff off but its hard. Anyway it was a very interesting article and one I cannot find again for the life of me lol.
This is so true. So much of my mental energy is spent thinking about the kids and the house and what needs to be done where MH's main concern outside work is our financial situation. He does spend mental energy on that so the whole household isn't on me. That said, I SAH so it feels like that is my job and I am not resentful. If I worked, I think I would be. Hell, I get annoyed by certain household things that both of us should be on top of yet it defaults to me.
As to the OP, it sounds like a rut to me. I think from what you've posted its worth the effort to fix it. When my BIL got divorced (and his situation was serious infidelity and lying), he said the best advice he received was to do everything you could (reasonably) before you decided to move on so you don't have any regrets or what ifs. I think in a situation where things are just at a low point, that's especially true.
H and I plan date nights together. While the burden of booking things may fall on me, we do the brainstorming together and come up with something we both would enjoy.
Did there used to be passion in your marriage? What brought you together in the first place?
What was it like before kids? What activities did you enjoy?
I can say that one of the few times I broke down this year was when DH asked me for like the 100th time about something with his mother. I think I temporarily lost my mind because he was asking me to be the one to remember something he told me instead of remembering it for himself - for the 100th time. I had had a shitty week at work, had a million things on my mind and just started crying and saying "why is it all on me? Why can't you remember anything? Why do I always have to be the one to keep track of everything? How can you remember all your video game and computer stuff and not remember what your mom told you?" Which them spiraled into "why do you think so little of my time? Why are you so important that you don't need to keep track of your own life stuff? Why don't I get to glide through life letting someone remind me of all my appointments and responsibilities?"
It was awful.
DH just stood there - like a deer in the headlights - I was bawling and yelling at him to get out of my sight. But the plus side, DH has started writing stuff down and keeping a calendar. I still end up keeping track of most of the house, family, and dog stuff but he no longer asks me a dozen times about something.
My DH does this stuff, too. When we bought our house he asked me what the address was at least once a week for the first two years. He continuously asks me "what's our Amazon password again?" at least once a month. I could make a list a mile long...not to mention all the times he will give me details about something like when his parents are coming and totally and completely give me the incorrect date/time. So annoying.
I can say that one of the few times I broke down this year was when DH asked me for like the 100th time about something with his mother. I think I temporarily lost my mind because he was asking me to be the one to remember something he told me instead of remembering it for himself - for the 100th time. I had had a shitty week at work, had a million things on my mind and just started crying and saying "why is it all on me? Why can't you remember anything? Why do I always have to be the one to keep track of everything? How can you remember all your video game and computer stuff and not remember what your mom told you?" Which them spiraled into "why do you think so little of my time? Why are you so important that you don't need to keep track of your own life stuff? Why don't I get to glide through life letting someone remind me of all my appointments and responsibilities?"
It was awful.
DH just stood there - like a deer in the headlights - I was bawling and yelling at him to get out of my sight. But the plus side, DH has started writing stuff down and keeping a calendar. I still end up keeping track of most of the house, family, and dog stuff but he no longer asks me a dozen times about something.
My H does something similar. He will hand me stuff to deal with - like a receipt for something he bought himself, but that he wants me to keep. Or mail he is going through that he wants me to take to the trash, when he is about 2 feet away from it. It's like he thinks I'm his secretary from the 60s.
I've had enough WTF!?! moments that he does it a lot less now. And if he does, usually I just give him a pointed look and he remembers. But yeah, it's frustrating.
This is the part that kills me, if I tell him to write it down then magically he remembers it. Rage!!!
I have no time for the coworker thing, I think it's irrelevant, needs to come to a close, and you know that. I think and hope this is a problem that can be fixed, but I also would allow myself to be okay with things if it couldn't be fixed. I do not think that life, in general, is for going along and getting along, I think you owe it to yourself to make the most of it and work toward having what makes you truly happy. While I think you and your H owe it to your children to do your very best to make it work, I just can't ignore the once a month sex and platonic marriage parts. I would consider those things, particularly you feeling as if you're in the latter, huge issues. I do think that it's not fair to your husband to hold that premarital counseling remark against him, especially without further discussion. He probably doesn't even remember it. Anyway, I think a marriage like this is almost what marital counseling was made for, the right person can help you guys to do a 180 if you're both willing to make the effort.
As far as daycare guy, I think that is totally and completely normal, and I'd venture to say that most anyone who has been married for a significant amount of time and has regular contact with the outside world has had a similar experience - someone new and exciting who pays special attention to you, who makes you remember what it was like to be single and have a new interest, someone who maybe gives you flutters, someone who sees you in a different (more interesting, maybe sexier) way than your spouse does, the fantasy of a different life or a new start.
I have actually never had anything like this or even close, but since reading the boards, I do wonder if I'm an anomaly in this respect. It seems to happen often.
Post by vanillacourage on Nov 30, 2015 22:54:54 GMT -5
Ok, well first you need to talk to your husband. You're contemplating blowing up your life but haven't clued him in that you're seriously unsatisfied? That's not fair to him and doesn't give him a chance to work to improve both your lives.
As for working on it, one thing I'll throw out is that DH and I have date night at home almost every Friday night. We make an appetizer and have that when the kids have dinner, then one of us puts them to bed while the other puts on music and starts a (nice) dinner. Grilled steaks, yummy pastas, etc. We also pick new recipes to try together. That + a bottle of wine usually leads to a nice relaxed evening together that feels like a real treat.
This has been the revolving theme in my counseling sessions.
I get pissed because I am the primary income earner, have the MUCH more stressful job, have so many demands on me, and yet I am also the primary parent (which pisses DH off when I say it but it's so very true), the primary home manager (bills/chores/etc), etc. DH was an only child and has lots of "me" needs and I get exhausted.
My counselor has suggested many ways for me to get what I want out of my husband, which takes work and effort and sort of feels manipulative. Kind of like the "care and feeding of husbands" book. That shit really works on my husband. And it pisses me off.
I want to know why I have to do all the heavy lifting on EVERY MOTHERFUCKING THING!?!
But then sometimes there are so many things my husband does right that I think I'm an asshole for feeling that way. I should just tell him what I need and only get mad at him if he refuses to help.
In the end, I ask my counselor, "if I were a man and the primary bread winner none of this would be an issue so why isn't turn around fair play" and she is kinda like, "because it is - so suck it up buttercup or leave the marriage but you aren't changing him and most of the men in the world are like this so you are likely to find yourself in this same situation - you need to work it to your advantage. And no that isn't fire but life isn't fair and who told you it would be?" LOL. I actually like that she calls me on it and reminds me that my unwillingness to accept reality is the source of my unhappiness and I need to stop being so stubborn and use the tools that get him to give me what I want because isn't happiness what I want in the end? And help with the motherfucking chores?
OMG, I have the same basic conversation w/ my therapist. Why do I HAVE TO DO IT ALL? Well, b/c you want it done. ::throws things::
Had a therapist break that down for me too. Then had the realization that the things that I am caring so much about and getting so worked up about aren't even on DH's radar. So when I get upset over it he literally doesn't have a clue why I am upset...so I appear crazy.
Mini-update: Tried to have a conversation with my husband today. He started to try with protesting that it's not at all how he feels (that he doesn't appreciate me for me specifically). Thankfully he quickly figured out that was the wrong response to shut me down. After I was done all I got was a "thank you for telling me" and "I don't know how to go about changing since I don't see what I'm not doing". And excuses that he hasn't wanted sex since his stomach pain issues (I know it's been bothering him enough that he's finally gone to see a dr). And tried to blame me for not initiating other than TTC. I told him I don't want to always initiate and it's not about just sex, but sensuality. I don't remember the last sensual experience. I need to be touched.
Nothing. So even now, went to take a bubble bath after DS went to bed. He came in while I was in the bath to talk about paring down kid toys. Nothing about the fact that his (supposedly beautiful) wife is inches away and naked.
Sometimes it's just not enough. I am currently divorcing my 'nice guy' husband. He isn't abusive towards me, isn't addicted to drugs, doesn't drink excessively but there is no connection and hasn't been for years. We hadn't had sex in over a year and never had much of a sex life. I thought initially it would be enough because butterflies end up lessening and diminishing over the years and we he the kids to focus on.
Even though we have two kids, I finally came to the conclusion that I want to divorce him. I didn't make the decision lightly and it has been a long time coming in my head. I know I will lead a happier and more fulfilling life without him rather than with him for lots of reasons.
So there's another perspective for you. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.
... Thankfully he quickly figured out that was the wrong response to shut me down. ...
This wording concerns me. Do you really feel like he needs to come up with words to shut you down or that he thinks so? This bothers me more than the bath part.
... Thankfully he quickly figured out that was the wrong response to shut me down. ...
This wording concerns me. Do you really feel like he needs to come up with words to shut you down or that he thinks so? This bothers me more than the bath part.
I took it to mean that he realized he was shutting her down and needed to listen, instead.
OP, give him some time to process. He's not going to be able to fix anything immediately anyway, and he likely needs some reflection time to really get it.
... Thankfully he quickly figured out that was the wrong response to shut me down. ...
This wording concerns me. Do you really feel like he needs to come up with words to shut you down or that he thinks so? This bothers me more than the bath part.
What KateAggie said. He started trying to immediately rebut what I was saying with "that's not true". I just had to prompt him that I needed to say this and he stepped back.
This wording concerns me. Do you really feel like he needs to come up with words to shut you down or that he thinks so? This bothers me more than the bath part.
What KateAggie said. He started trying to immediately rebut what I was saying with "that's not true". I just had to prompt him that I needed to say this and he stepped back.
Oh, good. That bodes much better for a possible resolution.
As KateAggie said, you dropped this bombshell on him and it wouldn't be fair to expect him to process it all immediately.
Mini-update: Tried to have a conversation with my husband today. He started to try with protesting that it's not at all how he feels (that he doesn't appreciate me for me specifically). Thankfully he quickly figured out that was the wrong response to shut me down. After I was done all I got was a "thank you for telling me" and "I don't know how to go about changing since I don't see what I'm not doing". And excuses that he hasn't wanted sex since his stomach pain issues (I know it's been bothering him enough that he's finally gone to see a dr). And tried to blame me for not initiating other than TTC. I told him I don't want to always initiate and it's not about just sex, but sensuality. I don't remember the last sensual experience. I need to be touched.
Nothing. So even now, went to take a bubble bath after DS went to bed. He came in while I was in the bath to talk about paring down kid toys. Nothing about the fact that his (supposedly beautiful) wife is inches away and naked.
This is where you can guide him. Tell him how this made you feel, rather than stewing about it. You didn't feel like his sexy wife; you felt like his roommate. Tell him how you would've preferred that the interaction go. Tell him things that you want him to do. Be specific. Expecting him to "just get it" isn't fair.
If he starts doing those things...great! They might feel forced at first, or robotic. But they'll gain spontaneity over time. Trust me...I've been there. On both sides of this discussion. And if he doesn't start doing those things, then perhaps you're seeing that he doesn't want to work on your marriage, or that he truly can't be the partner that you need.
Sometimes it's just not enough. I am currently divorcing my 'nice guy' husband. He isn't abusive towards me, isn't addicted to drugs, doesn't drink excessively but there is no connection and hasn't been for years. We hadn't had sex in over a year and never had much of a sex life. I thought initially it would be enough because butterflies end up lessening and diminishing over the years and we he the kids to focus on.
Even though we have two kids, I finally came to the conclusion that I want to divorce him. I didn't make the decision lightly and it has been a long time coming in my head. I know I will lead a happier and more fulfilling life without him rather than with him for lots of reasons.
So there's another perspective for you. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.
{{{hugs, chica}}} I remember you and I both had similar marriage problems around the same time a few years ago, so you've been on my radar (hopefully that doesn't sound creepy). I'm sorry to hear it didn't work out.
{{{hugs, chica}}} I remember you and I both had similar marriage problems around the same time a few years ago, so you've been on my radar (hopefully that doesn't sound creepy). I'm sorry to hear it didn't work out.
Thank you and no not creepy at all. It was helpful to have someone somewhat anonymous but still 'known' to reach out to back then. I'm very glad yours does seem to be working out.
I haven't read through all the responses, but I have a question for you after reading your posts. Have you ever considered whether you might have depression? This sounds a lot like me - not wanting to make the effort, feeling down about my regular life, etc. I went to a psychologist, and it turned out I have depression and anxiety. I get a prescription, and finally things look a LOT better to me. It's really hard to tell from the outside, you just feel like things are bad and there's nothing you can do. So in addition to what everyone else is saying, maybe consider it? It really helped me a LOT.
{{{hugs, chica}}} I remember you and I both had similar marriage problems around the same time a few years ago, so you've been on my radar (hopefully that doesn't sound creepy). I'm sorry to hear it didn't work out.
Thank you and no not creepy at all. It was helpful to have someone somewhat anonymous but still 'known' to reach out to back then. I'm very glad yours does seem to be working out.
::::knocks on wood:::: I won't lie; it hasn't been easy, like, at all. Just the other day, we had a pretty heavy conversation. Some wounds never fully heal.