Post by whiskeytails on Dec 12, 2015 10:40:29 GMT -5
I think the most interesting thing Undisclosed talked about was the Crimestoppers tip line.
I think Jay told the story for the money from the Crimestoppers tip line (there is evidence that he received a motorcycle after Adnan was put in jail).
Whether or not who did it, that fake ass story shouldn't be why someone is in jail.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Dec 12, 2015 20:28:55 GMT -5
I mean, there were MULTIPLE discussion podcasts about the first season, so can we not act like all of media was out to free Adnan? I'm not sold either way, to be honest, but I think if all you see is one side of the story, you're not looking hard enough.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
1. That was some shoddy detective work on the police's part based off what was presented here. They basically ignored Jay's contradictory stories and did not investigate Don or his alibi enough. I am assuming this is accurately presented because this podcast seems pro-Adnan and if there was more evidence regarding Jay or Don I think it would have been presented.
2. I think it is shady that the prosecutor paid for Jay's counsel.
3. I think Adnan did it. Not 100% sure but leaning more towards guilty than not guilty.
4. Despite #3, I am surprised he was convicted.
5. I don't think Adnan had a bad attorney. I just think her strategy was ineffective. And she was annoying as fuck.
6. I am LOL that Jay was afraid of Adnan. Even if he did threaten Stephanie. Even though Jay was a fake thug, he was more one than Adnan. I am just not buying that Jay's only participation in this was after the fact or that the reason he got involved was that he was afraid. I think Jay is a lying liar who lies. I even listened to "The Deal with Jay" twice trying to figure out why this was a pivotal episode for so many people in believing Adnan was guilty and I just don't see it. Or rather, I don't see how this episode makes people feel sorry for Jay. He got 2 years probation and no jail time. I would say he is pretty lucky given his level of involvement.
7. I am surprised this case is being re-opened. I haven't listened to Undisclosed and the other one (I will), but you have to have a lot of evidence to overturn a conviction. I don't think cell phone tower pings are going to be enough. There must be more. And there is more credibility in 1999 statements v. 2015. I am interested in seeing what the Innocence Project found. This may be discussed in the other podcasts. I will be starting those today.
5. Adnan's lawyer never questioned or interviewed a potential alibi witness that completely blows apart the state's timeline despite the fact that the witness wrote him letters while he was in jail that she would testify that she saw him in the library after school. His new law team believes she has the right date in mind because it is tied to the storm that came through that night and caused the witness to be stuck at her boyfriend's house. Weather reports and school closures (since the school was closed due to the storm for the following two days) verify the date as the only day possible during the month of January. The lawyer told him she would follow up but never did, presumably because she had taken on way to many cases and was having interns do the leg work on Adnan's case.
The prosecution also knew about another witness who was later arrested and being prosecuted in another jurisdiction for child molestation. He worked at the mosque and spoke to Adnan the night Hae was killed, during the time when the state says she was being buried in the park.
It's been a while since I listed to Serial S1 and the first few episodes of Undisclosed, but I've been firmly in "possibly did it, should not have gone to trial" ever since.
I'm going to give T&J a try. I ultimately couldn't hang with Undisclosed because of its connection to Adnan. The Jay episodes and the Ping episode were the best of those IMO.
1. That was some shoddy detective work on the police's part based off what was presented here. They basically ignored Jay's contradictory stories and did not investigate Don or his alibi enough. I am assuming this is accurately presented because this podcast seems pro-Adnan and if there was more evidence regarding Jay or Don I think it would have been presented.
2. I think it is shady that the prosecutor paid for Jay's counsel.
3. I think Adnan did it. Not 100% sure but leaning more towards guilty than not guilty.
4. Despite #3, I am surprised he was convicted.
5. I don't think Adnan had a bad attorney. I just think her strategy was ineffective. And she was annoying as fuck.
6. I am LOL that Jay was afraid of Adnan. Even if he did threaten Stephanie. Even though Jay was a fake thug, he was more one than Adnan. I am just not buying that Jay's only participation in this was after the fact or that the reason he got involved was that he was afraid. I think Jay is a lying liar who lies. I even listened to "The Deal with Jay" twice trying to figure out why this was a pivotal episode for so many people in believing Adnan was guilty and I just don't see it. Or rather, I don't see how this episode makes people feel sorry for Jay. He got 2 years probation and no jail time. I would say he is pretty lucky given his level of involvement.
7. I am surprised this case is being re-opened. I haven't listened to Undisclosed and the other one (I will), but you have to have a lot of evidence to overturn a conviction. I don't think cell phone tower pings are going to be enough. There must be more. And there is more credibility in 1999 statements v. 2015. I am interested in seeing what the Innocence Project found. This may be discussed in the other podcasts. I will be starting those today.
6. Undisclosed team interviewed Jay's lawyer for the plea agreement who the prosecutor basically backed into taking his case said that Jay's options at the time were to testify and take the deal or the prosecutor would move his case over to Baltimore county where they often sought the death penalty for young, African American men accused of murder. So he could take the deal and testify against Adnan (presumably however Urich wanted him to- which would explain the changing stories) or with what he had already told the police be found guilty of murder or as an accomplice and face the death penalty.
1. That was some shoddy detective work on the police's part based off what was presented here. They basically ignored Jay's contradictory stories and did not investigate Don or his alibi enough. I am assuming this is accurately presented because this podcast seems pro-Adnan and if there was more evidence regarding Jay or Don I think it would have been presented.
2. I think it is shady that the prosecutor paid for Jay's counsel.
3. I think Adnan did it. Not 100% sure but leaning more towards guilty than not guilty.
4. Despite #3, I am surprised he was convicted.
5. I don't think Adnan had a bad attorney. I just think her strategy was ineffective. And she was annoying as fuck.
6. I am LOL that Jay was afraid of Adnan. Even if he did threaten Stephanie. Even though Jay was a fake thug, he was more one than Adnan. I am just not buying that Jay's only participation in this was after the fact or that the reason he got involved was that he was afraid. I think Jay is a lying liar who lies. I even listened to "The Deal with Jay" twice trying to figure out why this was a pivotal episode for so many people in believing Adnan was guilty and I just don't see it. Or rather, I don't see how this episode makes people feel sorry for Jay. He got 2 years probation and no jail time. I would say he is pretty lucky given his level of involvement.
7. I am surprised this case is being re-opened. I haven't listened to Undisclosed and the other one (I will), but you have to have a lot of evidence to overturn a conviction. I don't think cell phone tower pings are going to be enough. There must be more. And there is more credibility in 1999 statements v. 2015. I am interested in seeing what the Innocence Project found. This may be discussed in the other podcasts. I will be starting those today.
5. Adnan's lawyer never questioned or interviewed a potential alibi witness that completely blows apart the state's timeline despite the fact that the witness wrote him letters while he was in jail that she would testify that she saw him in the library after school. His new law team believes she has the right date in mind because it is tied to the storm that came through that night and caused the witness to be stuck at her boyfriend's house. Weather reports and school closures (since the school was closed due to the storm for the following two days) verify the date as the only day possible during the month of January. The lawyer told him she would follow up but never did, presumably because she had taken on way to many cases and was having interns do the leg work on Adnan's case.
The prosecution also knew about another witness who was later arrested and being prosecuted in another jurisdiction for child molestation. He worked at the mosque and spoke to Adnan the night Hae was killed, during the time when the state says she was being buried in the park.
1. That was some shoddy detective work on the police's part based off what was presented here. They basically ignored Jay's contradictory stories and did not investigate Don or his alibi enough. I am assuming this is accurately presented because this podcast seems pro-Adnan and if there was more evidence regarding Jay or Don I think it would have been presented. It was very shoddy detective work, in my "civilian" opinion. They basically ignored everything that didn't indicate Adnan. The fact that the police were absolutely talking to witnesses long before they say they were is inappropriate, IMO.
2. I think it is shady that the prosecutor paid for Jay's counsel. And the way they brought him in and his lawyer "just so happened to be there." Ick.
3. I think Adnan did it. Not 100% sure but leaning more towards guilty than not guilty. I think you can make an argument both ways, which is why this case is so interesting. Like Sarah Koenig said - you can flip flop hourly depending on what you focus on.
4. Despite #3, I am surprised he was convicted. I am not surprised, but only because I know what a cluster Christina's life was at the time of the trial. She failed.
5. I don't think Adnan had a bad attorney. I just think her strategy was ineffective. And she was annoying as fuck.
6. I am LOL that Jay was afraid of Adnan. Even if he did threaten Stephanie. Even though Jay was a fake thug, he was more one than Adnan. I am just not buying that Jay's only participation in this was after the fact or that the reason he got involved was that he was afraid. I think Jay is a lying liar who lies. I even listened to "The Deal with Jay" twice trying to figure out why this was a pivotal episode for so many people in believing Adnan was guilty and I just don't see it. Or rather, I don't see how this episode makes people feel sorry for Jay. He got 2 years probation and no jail time. I would say he is pretty lucky given his level of involvement. LOL for days at Adnan's "badass uncle". I won't go so far as to arm chair therapist Jay, but I think he is troubled.
7. I am surprised this case is being re-opened. I haven't listened to Undisclosed and the other one (I will), but you have to have a lot of evidence to overturn a conviction. I don't think cell phone tower pings are going to be enough. There must be more. And there is more credibility in 1999 statements v. 2015. I am interested in seeing what the Innocence Project found. This may be discussed in the other podcasts. I will be starting those today. Well a couple of things here. The cell phone pings are going to be dismantled in the appeal. I believe they will be worthless in the upcoming court proceedings. But also, the Asia alibi witness is going to be introduced. It covers the time period that the state says Adnan was killing Hae. I mean, I suppose they could change their timeline (again), but then you have the track coach alibi. In Serial, the track coach wasn't sure what day was what (IIRC), but in Undisclosed, it's very clear that it was the day Hae went missing based on Ramadan and historical weather data.
I hope you do listen to Undisclosed. The most important one for me is Episode 8 Ping. If you don't listen to any others, I think that should be the one. But that's just my opinion.
It's been a while since I listed to Serial S1 and the first few episodes of Undisclosed, but I've been firmly in "possibly did it, should not have gone to trial" ever since.
I'm going to give T&J a try. I ultimately couldn't hang with Undisclosed because of its connection to Adnan. The Jay episodes and the Ping episode were the best of those IMO.
Bob Ruff licks Undisclosed proverbial butthole, so you might hate it.
1. That was some shoddy detective work on the police's part based off what was presented here. They basically ignored Jay's contradictory stories and did not investigate Don or his alibi enough. I am assuming this is accurately presented because this podcast seems pro-Adnan and if there was more evidence regarding Jay or Don I think it would have been presented.
2. I think it is shady that the prosecutor paid for Jay's counsel.
3. I think Adnan did it. Not 100% sure but leaning more towards guilty than not guilty.
4. Despite #3, I am surprised he was convicted.
5. I don't think Adnan had a bad attorney. I just think her strategy was ineffective. And she was annoying as fuck.
6. I am LOL that Jay was afraid of Adnan. Even if he did threaten Stephanie. Even though Jay was a fake thug, he was more one than Adnan. I am just not buying that Jay's only participation in this was after the fact or that the reason he got involved was that he was afraid. I think Jay is a lying liar who lies. I even listened to "The Deal with Jay" twice trying to figure out why this was a pivotal episode for so many people in believing Adnan was guilty and I just don't see it. Or rather, I don't see how this episode makes people feel sorry for Jay. He got 2 years probation and no jail time. I would say he is pretty lucky given his level of involvement.
7. I am surprised this case is being re-opened. I haven't listened to Undisclosed and the other one (I will), but you have to have a lot of evidence to overturn a conviction. I don't think cell phone tower pings are going to be enough. There must be more. And there is more credibility in 1999 statements v. 2015. I am interested in seeing what the Innocence Project found. This may be discussed in the other podcasts. I will be starting those today.
I have listened to the whole Serial (Season 1 - twice in real time and as a podcast this summer) and not undisclosed, so maybe I'm wrong. I thought the prosecutor did not pay for Jay's counsel, instead he put Jay in touch with someone who took on his case pro-bono. So the state or counsel wasn't paying for the lawyer, just put him in touch. I'm also not as cynical that the DA did a terrible job. I don't doubt that they wanted a conviction and were working with the police department's investigation work (which I do think was shoddy and biased at times as to how they went about talking with Jay and Adnan).
I still think Adnan's lawyer let him down in both the trial and jury selection process and that the use of cell phone data was not precise or well understood at the time and should have been challenged more by the lawyer, and that the detectives were a bit shady. All that together, I'm surprised that Adnan was convicted, but that doesn't mean I don't think he did it.
It's been a while since I listed to Serial S1 and the first few episodes of Undisclosed, but I've been firmly in "possibly did it, should not have gone to trial" ever since.
I'm going to give T&J a try. I ultimately couldn't hang with Undisclosed because of its connection to Adnan. The Jay episodes and the Ping episode were the best of those IMO.
Bob Ruff licks Undisclosed proverbial butthole, so you might hate it.
I'm listening to ep2 and already want to move on. OH he was on a jury? WELL THEN.
Maybe I'll get my dad to listen to Serial S1 so I can discuss it with him. He has a career history in this stuff.
This is why talking about serial lost its charm a year ago. Any contrary opinion is picked apart to death down to the minutiae.
And I think it's interesting the current season so far has generated little interest and the old season still has heart's afire. Ha!!!!!
Eh, the S2 Ep1 one wasn't that interesting so far. I mean they dropped that thing about Sarah Koenig "talking with the Taliban" but that was the only thing. The rest is mostly getting used to hearing some new guy (director) get to know Bergdahl and maybe it's more aimed to a different audience b/c I was disappointed that she didn't focus on a case in the US Justice system.
5. Adnan's lawyer never questioned or interviewed a potential alibi witness that completely blows apart the state's timeline despite the fact that the witness wrote him letters while he was in jail that she would testify that she saw him in the library after school. His new law team believes she has the right date in mind because it is tied to the storm that came through that night and caused the witness to be stuck at her boyfriend's house. Weather reports and school closures (since the school was closed due to the storm for the following two days) verify the date as the only day possible during the month of January. The lawyer told him she would follow up but never did, presumably because she had taken on way to many cases and was having interns do the leg work on Adnan's case.
The prosecution also knew about another witness who was later arrested and being prosecuted in another jurisdiction for child molestation. He worked at the mosque and spoke to Adnan the night Hae was killed, during the time when the state says she was being buried in the park.
You are right. There was an ice storm early in the morning of the 14th. Her details about school being closed the next two days are correct and I don't think it's uncommon for a high school student to not differentiate between one day and the next when you are talking about late one night or in the pre-dawn hours of the next day.
1. That was some shoddy detective work on the police's part based off what was presented here. They basically ignored Jay's contradictory stories and did not investigate Don or his alibi enough. I am assuming this is accurately presented because this podcast seems pro-Adnan and if there was more evidence regarding Jay or Don I think it would have been presented.
2. I think it is shady that the prosecutor paid for Jay's counsel.
3. I think Adnan did it. Not 100% sure but leaning more towards guilty than not guilty.
4. Despite #3, I am surprised he was convicted.
5. I don't think Adnan had a bad attorney. I just think her strategy was ineffective. And she was annoying as fuck.
6. I am LOL that Jay was afraid of Adnan. Even if he did threaten Stephanie. Even though Jay was a fake thug, he was more one than Adnan. I am just not buying that Jay's only participation in this was after the fact or that the reason he got involved was that he was afraid. I think Jay is a lying liar who lies. I even listened to "The Deal with Jay" twice trying to figure out why this was a pivotal episode for so many people in believing Adnan was guilty and I just don't see it. Or rather, I don't see how this episode makes people feel sorry for Jay. He got 2 years probation and no jail time. I would say he is pretty lucky given his level of involvement.
7. I am surprised this case is being re-opened. I haven't listened to Undisclosed and the other one (I will), but you have to have a lot of evidence to overturn a conviction. I don't think cell phone tower pings are going to be enough. There must be more. And there is more credibility in 1999 statements v. 2015. I am interested in seeing what the Innocence Project found. This may be discussed in the other podcasts. I will be starting those today.
I don't want to say whether or not he should have been convicted because I wasn't in the courtroom jury box listening to the evidence as it was presented at that time without back story etc.
I think this is an incrediably critical point that gets lost in all these conversations.
This is why talking about serial lost its charm a year ago. Any contrary opinion is picked apart to death down to the minutiae.
And I think it's interesting the current season so far has generated little interest and the old season still has heart's afire. Ha!!!!!
Eh, the S2 Ep1 one wasn't that interesting so far. I mean they dropped that thing about Sarah Koenig "talking with the Taliban" but that was the only thing. The rest is mostly getting used to hearing some new guy (director) get to know Bergdahl and maybe it's more aimed to a different audience b/c I was disappointed that she didn't focus on a case in the US Justice system.
It was incrediably boring whereas epi 1 of season 1 was instantly captivating.
You are right. There was an ice storm early in the morning of the 14th. Her details about school being closed the next two days are correct and I don't think it's uncommon for a high school student to not differentiate between one day and the next when you are talking about late one night or in the pre-dawn hours of the next day.
I guess. I would think it would have stuck in her mind more since a girl she knew was missing. I live in the area and remember hearing about when she went missing (and that ice storm) so I'd think she'd remember it even more clearly since she knew all involved. Plus she insisted that the snow is why she remembers seeing him and it didn't snow at all, it was ice and the next day. It seems more likely she saw him the day it actually snowed, the week before, to me.
I am very interested in S2 and cannot wait for more episodes. We had a discussion thread on ML, but since there's one one episode out there's not a ton to talk about at this point.
I'm unsure about whether or not Adnan did it. I'm leaning towards yes, despite Undisclosed and Truth & Justice. Asia McClane's alibi doesn't hold up under scrutiny. I think the track coach would have been a better alibi to use. I think Syed's attorney did a terrible job, both in terms of strategy and execution; listening to the trial recordings is like nails on a chalkboard. But if I'd been on the jury, I don't think I could have convicted Syed in this case. The case hinged on one notoriously-unreliable witness, and there was barely even circumstantial evidence.
I really think the cell phone data was impressive to the jury. It was the first time the ping data was used in a case here. Cell phones were still new and unfamiliar to most people. This must have seemed like very compelling, modern police work at the time.
I really think the cell phone data was impressive to the jury. It was the first time the ping data was used in a case here. Cell phones were still new and unfamiliar to most people. This must have seemed like very compelling, modern police work at the time.
I have a friend who read most of the trial transcripts and she said that the closing argument from the prosecution was excellent. Like she read it and was like, oh yeah, Adnan did it. I mean she's pretty much there anyway, lol, but she said she could completely understand how the jury would hear the closing arguments and go into deliberations thinking to convict.
And that is really what a lot of trials come down to, I think!
Eh, the S2 Ep1 one wasn't that interesting so far. I mean they dropped that thing about Sarah Koenig "talking with the Taliban" but that was the only thing. The rest is mostly getting used to hearing some new guy (director) get to know Bergdahl and maybe it's more aimed to a different audience b/c I was disappointed that she didn't focus on a case in the US Justice system.
It was incrediably boring whereas epi 1 of season 1 was instantly captivating.
And am I a jerk bc I don't care that Bergdahl's version of the capture is so different than the Taliban. I mean, I guess it's interesting that he was, supposedly, whistle-blowing when he did his walk-about, but it sort of ends there for me. The U.S. couldn't have known half of what was happening with Bergdahl, since it was a national security issue, happened in a foreign country, and involved a hostile non-governmental group.
I have a friend who read most of the trial transcripts and she said that the closing argument from the prosecution was excellent. Like she read it and was like, oh yeah, Adnan did it. I mean she's pretty much there anyway, lol, but she said she could completely understand how the jury would hear the closing arguments and go into deliberations thinking to convict.
And that is really what a lot of trials come down to, I think!
It's almost as if we are having a trial by podcast. Ha!!! Maybe all trials should be dueling podcasts hosted by friends.
It was incrediably boring whereas epi 1 of season 1 was instantly captivating.
And am I a jerk bc I don't care that Bergdahl's version of the capture is so different than the Taliban. I mean, I guess it's interesting that he was, supposedly, whistle-blowing when he did his walk-about, but it sort of ends there for me. The U.S. couldn't have known half of what was happening with Bergdahl, since it was a national security issue, happened in a foreign country, and involved a hostile non-governmental group.
My problem is that ... I just don't care about the Bergdahl story. But I was hoping epi 1 would make me care. And it just didn't. Sigh.
I hear though that season 2 is just a quick and easy one (easy in that most of the research was conducted by that Hollywood producer) because the serial staff has been busy working on season 3 (which was supposed to be 2 but not ready). If so, I have hope!
And am I a jerk bc I don't care that Bergdahl's version of the capture is so different than the Taliban. I mean, I guess it's interesting that he was, supposedly, whistle-blowing when he did his walk-about, but it sort of ends there for me. The U.S. couldn't have known half of what was happening with Bergdahl, since it was a national security issue, happened in a foreign country, and involved a hostile non-governmental group.
My problem is that ... I just don't care about the Bergdahl story. But I was hoping epi 1 would make me care. And it just didn't. Sigh.
I hear though that season 2 is just a quick and easy one (easy in that most of the research was conducted by that Hollywood producer) because the serial staff has been busy working on season 3 (which was supposed to be 2 but not ready). If so, I have hope!
Really? I hope so! I donated money to the next season and was like, "I want my money back."
And am I a jerk bc I don't care that Bergdahl's version of the capture is so different than the Taliban. I mean, I guess it's interesting that he was, supposedly, whistle-blowing when he did his walk-about, but it sort of ends there for me. The U.S. couldn't have known half of what was happening with Bergdahl, since it was a national security issue, happened in a foreign country, and involved a hostile non-governmental group.
My problem is that ... I just don't care about the Bergdahl story. But I was hoping epi 1 would make me care. And it just didn't. Sigh.
I hear though that season 2 is just a quick and easy one (easy in that most of the research was conducted by that Hollywood producer) because the serial staff has been busy working on season 3 (which was supposed to be 2 but not ready). If so, I have hope!