I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, your posts would have been better received without the repeated "oh no, I'm just a newb, nobody cares."
not sure on that. Que just asked me where my call outs are. I just called myself out before anyone else could. That's all.
As it happens (and as you might be aware if you do lurk) I agree with your general message and have spoken out on this pretty regularly.
But I also think there is a way to do it without coming across condescending and above it all. I am sure I haven't always hit the mark here myself, but a little self-awareness goes a long way.
Additionally, elle expressed a common sentiment of not knowing if she is the best person to say something about microagressions and less overt racism. She's not saying they don't exist. She's uncertain if she is recognizing them all correctly and if it would be well received coming from her. Completely normal hesitancy, especially given the fact that it is NOT generally well received to point out white privilege.
Post by ledareansley on Feb 7, 2016 21:43:56 GMT -5
Dealing with all of the posts directed at me
1. I would love to challenge regulars who say jacked up racist things but look how just challenging Elle right now is going.
2. Yes, I think the people who contribute most and thus use the most have the most responsiblity and the most power for change.
3. I don't have an axe to grind but I'm definitely relieved that people were finally called out for being racist. Based on my own life experiences which I'm not going to get into, it gets old watching. Should I have said something? Maybe. But my limited social capital means nothing and would take away from pointing out the micro aggression as it was happening, I know from experience.
No one has to agree with me I honestly do not understand why you are trying to change my mind.
not sure on that. Que just asked me where my call outs are. I just called myself out before anyone else could. That's all.
As it happens (and as you might be aware if you do lurk) I agree with your general message and have spoken out on this pretty regularly.
But I also think there is a way to do it without coming across condescending and above it all. I am sure I haven't always hit the mark here myself, but a little self-awareness goes a long way.
Additionally, elle expressed a common sentiment of not knowing if she is the best person to say something about microagressions and less overt racism. She's not saying they don't exist. She's uncertain if she is recognizing them all correctly and if it would be well received coming from her. Completely normal hesitancy, especially given the fact that it is NOT generally well received to point out white privilege.
1. I would love to challenge regulars who say jacked up racist things but look how just challenging Elle right now is going.
2. Yes, I think the people who contribute most and thus use the most have the most responsiblity and the most power for change.
3. I don't have an axe to grind but I'm definitely relieved that people were finally called out for being racist. Based on my own life experiences which I'm not going to get into, it gets old watching. Should I have said something? Maybe. But my limited social capital means nothing and would take away from pointing out the micro aggression as it was happening, I know from experience.
No one has to agree with me I honestly do not understand why you are trying to change my mind.
Is this not what you are tying to do with elle? Is elle saying racist, jacked up shit? I understand being passionate, but have substance and not just fluff.
Post by underwaterrhymes on Feb 7, 2016 21:58:43 GMT -5
Also - and totally unrelated to the racism issue - the way one becomes a regular is by posting and by contributing to conversations in positive ways.
I am not an elder (despite what it says under my name). I've only (ha!) been around six years. But I jumped in when I first started posting and although it took awhile, I think I'm generally well-known. Not everyone likes me - I'm long winded and opinionated - and people don't always agree with me, but I think most respect me. Maybe.
And if you pay attention, you will absolutely see that regulars often get their asses handed to them. It's happened to most of us. It's by no means unique to newbs.
1. I would love to challenge regulars who say jacked up racist things but look how just challenging Elle right now is going.
2. Yes, I think the people who contribute most and thus use the most have the most responsiblity and the most power for change.
3. I don't have an axe to grind but I'm definitely relieved that people were finally called out for being racist. Based on my own life experiences which I'm not going to get into, it gets old watching. Should I have said something? Maybe. But my limited social capital means nothing and would take away from pointing out the micro aggression as it was happening, I know from experience.
No one has to agree with me I honestly do not understand why you are trying to change my mind.
Is this not what you are tying to do with elle? Is elle saying racist, jacked up shit? I understand being passionate, but have substance and not just fluff.
Cool. Thanks for the tips. Let me be clear. I have no desire to be a regular poster. In fact, I was excited that it was handled by people it should have been handled by. You guys. Again, we have a logic gap here which I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain about my point again. But then this post got made and I got salty because it seemed really, I don't know ignorant. I knew why KOKO left why didn't Elle. But you guys can mock my phrases. That's fine. I don't care. I don't need a lecture about putting my big girl pants on or playing nice with others. I occasionally read here when I'm looking to unwind and need to know about products and services. Like Fitbits, granite counter tops, etc. You can say I'm wrong and that's fine. I will keep my nose out of where it doesn't belong. My bad.
It's an open message board. You are neither compelled to participate nor prohibited from participating.
Should you choose to participate, however, a delivery style that most closely approximates "and fuck you and the horse you rode in on" is less likely to be received well and listened to. That is quite literally all that like half of the people responding to you are saying. Underlying message: interesting and important. Delivery: as delicious as an arsenic cocktail.
I'm sure you do not care, as you have said before. But I thought up arsenic cocktail and wanted to use it.
It's an open message board. You are neither compelled to participate nor prohibited from participating.
Should you choose to participate, however, a delivery style that most closely approximates "and fuck you and the horse you rode in on" is less likely to be received well and listened to. That is quite literally all that like half of the people responding to you are saying. Underlying message: interesting and important. Delivery: as delicious as an arsenic cocktail.
I'm sure you do not care, as you have said before. But I thought up arsenic cocktail and wanted to use it.
You channeled a little bit of scottyderp here. I love it.
It is quite the Catch 22 on this board now. And here we are calling another frustrated minority (I'm assuming) poster out on her "tone". I can see the points being made on both sides, and am not sure how to move forward, but maybe we can start by not criticizing "tone" when we are talking about inherently frustrating race issues - criticize the substance instead or with it? We can see how this leads back to the original issue, right?
It is quite the Catch 22 on this board now. And here we are calling another frustrated minority (I'm assuming) poster out on her "tone". I can see the points being made on both sides, and am not sure how to move forward, but maybe we can start by not criticizing "tone" when we are talking about inherently frustrating race issues - criticize the substance instead or with it? We can see how this leads back to the original issue, right?
I don't believe she's a person of color based on one of her previous posts. (Obviously, I could be wrong).
And, as I said, I agree with her message.
But this particular poster has jumped down people's throats before when misunderstanding what is being said, as she did in this case.
Everyone here agrees with her with regard to the basic message she's saying.
It is quite the Catch 22 on this board now. And here we are calling another frustrated minority (I'm assuming) poster out on her "tone". I can see the points being made on both sides, and am not sure how to move forward, but maybe we can start by not criticizing "tone" when we are talking about inherently frustrating race issues - criticize the substance instead or with it? We can see how this leads back to the original issue, right?
I don't believe she's a person of color based on one of her previous posts. (Obviously, I could be wrong).
And, as I said, I agree with her message.
But this particular poster has jumped down people's throats before when misunderstanding what is being said, as she did in this case.
Everyone here agrees with her with regard to the basic message she's saying.
I know the post has jumped ship, but I wanted to post this anyway. A PP mentioned that she didn't think it was the responsibility of white people to call out everything we see that's racist. Actually it is our responsibility. POC shouldn't have to handle that burden themselves, if we truly are trying to change then we need to step up. opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/12/24/dear-white-america/?_r=1
I know the post has jumped ship, but I wanted to post this anyway. A PP mentioned that she didn't think it was the responsibility of white people to call out everything we see that's racist. Actually it is our responsibility. POC shouldn't have to handle that burden themselves, if we truly are trying to change then we need to step up. opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/12/24/dear-white-america/?_r=1
Yes. I agree.
But she didn't say that.
She said that she wasn't sure she would always recognize it and if it would be received the right way. That is a common concern.
It is quite the Catch 22 on this board now. And here we are calling another frustrated minority (I'm assuming) poster out on her "tone". I can see the points being made on both sides, and am not sure how to move forward, but maybe we can start by not criticizing "tone" when we are talking about inherently frustrating race issues - criticize the substance instead or with it? We can see how this leads back to the original issue, right?
Listen, I'm not calling out her "tone" like "you'd better say it nice or I'm not listening to your valid points about covert racism." Her very first post started out assertive and pointed, all normal/expected around here. RIGHT UP until she, with no segue, launched into "I know, who the fuck am I? Someone who lurks and would love to see a script change from the 'regulars.'"
I mean, that's as subtle as a razor blade to the throat.
Leaving aside that she and elle disagree about the appropriate role of white people in calling out racism on a message board, saying "who the fuck am I" several times while ALSO saying "let's not make this about you" is whiplash-inducing to say the least.