My H's (self-made) wealthy uncle gave him the Millionaire Next Door book when he was in college and one of the lines really stuck with him (and me): most millionaires drive Toyotas (or is it Hondas?). So when we see our old neighbors, who are the same age as us, driving a Porsche and carrying high-end designer handbags, we scratch our heads a bit. We have zero desire for such conspicuous consumption, nor do we have the means for it unless we were to take out a giant car loan or dip into our downpayment fund for a $10K purse. No thanks, bro.
I felt more desire to keep up with the Joneses when we were getting married. We had a really frugal wedding day for our area. I look back at what we spent, though, and it was still a ton of money. Our friends who had way fancier weddings and way more expensive engagement rings are not doing as well financially as we are now. Two got divorced.
I used to struggle with this a lot, but I am in a good place now. For me, my biggest issue was growing up poor and marrying someone who grew up perfectly well-off and never worried about money. I spent a lot of energy (and $$) trying to make myself seem like I wasn't a poor loser in the eyes of my in-laws and that their son wasn't marrying the girl from the wrong side of the tracks, so to speak. I am at least proud of myself that I did all that honestly and didn't go into debt or anything for it, but I wasted a lot of money and worried a lot unnecessarily about material stuff for way too long.
Now, I'm not about having stuff but focusing on enjoying what I do have and taking care of it. This is definitely from growing up literally never having anything nice. And by "nice" I don't mean luxury or designer anything, just things that were normal but well-kept. Growing up and in my 20s when I was still poor and scraping by to finish school and get a job, I was envious of simple things like towels that weren't threadbare or ratty, purses that didn't have broken zipper pulls or furniture that didn't have stains or holes in it. So now I kind of focus my energy on things like this and it keeps me happy and in check. No, I can't afford to have an interior designer come and redecorate my house, but I can relax comfortably on my nice sofa that I bought on super clearance without worrying if a spring is going to pop or poking my toe through a hole in my blanket. I've found myself a lot happier focusing on the little things.
I recently had a twinge of this, but only because I'm in HCOL/VHCOL where housing prices are insane and so much of our HHI goes to supporting the house. Our friends bought a ridiculous house for less than half of what we paid for ours, even though they're in the same damn state! And I get it, we're close to NYC, we're in a great school district, but damn. Some days I wonder why we're really here when we could be earning less elsewhere but probably having higher quality of life.
But most of the time, I'm only jealous of women who manage to have great post-partum bodies. Because that didn't happen for me after DD1 and I doubt being pregnant/nursing for what will likely be 3.5 consecutive years is not going to do me any favors in that department.
I think a lot probably has to do with your environment a la @marmee.
I agree. And I think most people "Keep up with the Joneses" to some extent, subconsciously. I would have sworn that we didn't, but after we moved away from a VHCOL, we realized that we had been affected. We replaced my 6 year old Grand Am for a brand new car. Granted it was a Ford (with a deep discount) when most cars like mine were a Lexus. I didn't care enough to buy a luxury brand, but I was quicker to feel like I needed a new car. We still drive the same 8 year old car, but now live in a LCOL area where most people don't really care about material possessions. People make decent salaries, but I rarely see REALLY nice cars or $$ brand clothes/purses. (Part of that is who we choose to hang out with...and that's largely people who couldn't care less about most material possessions.) Perspective really changes things, and most friends who have moved between COL have noticed the same thing.
With most things, however, I just simply don't care. I'm not impressed nor judgmental about what clothes, shoes, bags, toys, etc. that others have. For whatever reason, I just don't care...at all. I think that is partially because I know I *could* have at least some of those things if I made different choices (I currently SAH). But I'm happy with my choices, so have to be content with my "things."
Post by pantsparty on Aug 24, 2016 10:09:36 GMT -5
Living in SoCal has to be one of the worst areas for this. It will really fuck up your perspective. LOL. I grew up in a very frugal household. I only got on a plane once before I turned 18, any activities we took were through the rec center (and I had to rotate among my siblings), we rarely went out to eat, camping was a vacation, birthday parties were family and cake at home, etc. Most of my friends here take their kids on vacations via plane if not at least once multiple times per year, parties seem to cost in the $500 range, etc. Like I'm flying my family out here next month and I'm pretty sure it's my 9-year-old nephew's first time on a plane. Things haven't changed much for my family, if I wasn't using my miles to pay for these tickets, my brothers could not afford to come out here.
I feel we are doing very well considering our childhoods (H lived in a trailer most of his life) and the fact that we don't have degrees, but I also have friends that just completed a like, $50k bathroom reno. And I do feel a little self-conscious. Like when my parents were out one time my H shared how much our backyard project cost and I asked him to not do that again. I'm proud of our success but I also don't want to like...feel like we're bragging or something. Honestly I just feel lucky to live the life we live most of the time, and paranoid it could all end at any moment in time.
ETA: I don't feel jealous of what people can afford, just amazed most of the time. Like where is the money coming from? LOL.
I don't try to keep up, I just sulk and kick rocks.
This.
I feel twinges from time to time. More like "If we were living in Atlanta we could have this house and money would go further." when I start to browse homes and looking forward to the prospect of moving. I get bummed when I look at no-frills family homes for no less than $275k, and then I get all sad panda 'cause the South is way cheaper and we got more/better for what we paid. But I know Nor Cal isn't exactly inexpensive, so the lifestyle I was once used to isn't as doable here on a similar income.
MH doesn't get these twinges, really. His parents were like that, and my dad and stepmom totally gave into the pressures of keeping with their peers and neighbors. MH is a minimalist and can be very frugal. I'm... not. Lol I can be if I need to be, though.
Post by blueberry10 on Aug 24, 2016 10:43:26 GMT -5
I do struggle with jealousy of others' lifestyles sometimes. We live near some wealthy areas and a lot of our acquaintances around here are SAHMs. I feel like kind of an outsider around them because I can't do the daytime activities they do with their kids and many of them have nicer houses than we do, even with our dual incomes. I also know that we could have a larger house/maybe not depend on my income as much if we moved back to my home state, and that is sometimes hard for me to deal with because I also really miss it there.
I do try to focus on being thankful for what we do have and that we can afford the things that we need.
For me I have moments where I see a friends great new house, or amazing pics from their lake home. I see those and think "that would be so amazing". I don't know that it is really me feeling the need to keep up. I am not trying to afford a fully updated/decorated home or a lakehouse. I just appreciate that they must get joy from these things and think I would to.
I think Eleanor is starting to feel this though. She asked me last night if I ever wished I was someone else who traveled on airplanes every month or had FIVE American Girl dolls instead of her 2. She wasn't asking in a way that sounded like she was ungrateful. She just wants to have all the things. I tried to explain that we all have different priorities for our money and how we decide how much money we want to earn in life. Who knows if she understood.
I certainly feel envious of various aspects of other people's lives at times (who doesn't?), but I am not really worried about keeping up.
We have a great life, and for the most part I am very content. Fancy cars and clothes don't really matter much to me. And many of the people around us who have nicer things than we do either have terrible work-life balance or have likely overspent and sacrificed long-term financial stability.
I will admit, though, that I am kind of jealous of the people around me who have gobs and gobs of family money. A few of those families have obnoxious, entitled kids, so I guess I would not want their whole package. But I know one family in particular with three gorgeous homes and a private jet, and they have three lovely, kind, down-to-earth kids and are always going on really interesting sounding educational trips. I think I could be happy with their life
I have moments but when that happens I try to think of everything I *do* have (both material and not). I remember I was jealous of my neighbor and her her house and then I was like, We have the exact same floor plan and house!! I mean that just shows you can often look at others with rose colored glasses while forgetting your own life.
I wish we went on more vacations and I want to finish our basement, and other house stuff too, but I'm sure some people look at us and are jealous about some things. The truth is no matter what we have I'll always want a tiny bit more. When I realized that my whole thinking changed and I decided to instead of always wanting that little bit more, I should be thankful and happy with what I do have. That's easier said than done, but I try. I jokingly call DH "Mr. Money" because he is always thinking of money and saving. That's a good thing because it's put us where we are in life, but it also means he's very frugal and we don't always get all our wants.
I'm jealous of everyone who is not bothered by external/internal pressures to 'keep up'. I feel them often and struggle to remind myself that I don't need the Burberry watch that's on sale from Nordstroms or that we don't need a bigger house. My family was/is comfortable but were always very stringent about how they spent money. I grew up in a smaller house, in one of the less affluent neighborhoods. It always bugged me as a pre-teen/teen and I think if left to my own devices now I would go the other direction and spend, spend, spend. Luckily logic and DH come into play so its something I battle often. (excuse me while I close the Kate Spade surprise sale tab now....)
Post by hbomdiggity on Aug 24, 2016 11:45:15 GMT -5
I don't consider it keep up with the Joneses, but we do like nice things. I buy nice things to make me happy, but not because I want others to think we have money or because someone else has it. I actually go out of my way to not buy certain things because I hate that they have become status symbols, at least for socal standards (LV, bmw, etc).
I feel it in relation to how it affects my kids. It doesn't affect our major life choices (house, cars, etc.), but we have a lot of discussions about it with the kids because most of my son's friends belong to country clubs and live a little larger than we do.
It can be awkward to be the guest at the country club for parties and not even be able to buy yourself your own drinks. But I guess the fact that we get invited means these are our friends and they don't care that we don't belong too.
I don't think I feel pressure to keep up with others, but I do feel behind in terms of savings and investments. But then I pull my head out of my butt and remind myself that we're much more fortunate than many people.
Post by mandapanda18 on Aug 24, 2016 12:11:41 GMT -5
For me it is not keeping up with the Jones in the same sense. I grew up extremely poor, low enough to never have anything, not low enough to get help from any government agency (so basically my parents paid the rent, and bought some cheap food with what was left and there was never enough). I started working at 14.5; moved out the weekend I graduated HS at 17.5 and paid my own way through college while working full-time (I have a master's degree that I completed in 5 years while working f/t).
My H in contrast grew up in a million dollar home, had everything he could ever want. We bought our first home together when I was 21 and he was 22, got married the next year. He was perfectly content in that tiny starter home and would have lived there forever, I was not. I worked my way up to management by 24; director level by 27 and we just bought a much nice/larger home last October. I am not comparing my self to my peers/C's peer's, but to my own crappy childhood. I have actually sought help from a therapist this year because it seems like it is never enough She has been helpful in showing me the bigger picture/giving me mechanisms to be "in the now" and chill out (i.e. not always searching for the next big thing. That being said, my house/education/work is the areas that it affected, I drive a hyundai because I commute and refuse to waste money on an expensive car, I still shop at the "cheap" grocery chains (winco/food 4 less/etc) and use coupons because I hate wasting money unnecessarily.
I don't think I feel pressure to keep up with others, but I do feel behind in terms of savings and investments. But then I pull my head out of my butt and remind myself that we're much more fortunate than many people.
I bow down to anyone in SoCal paying daycare payments and a mortgage. Like, the fact you can afford to buy food after those expenses is an accomplishment. LOL.
Post by awkwardpenguin on Aug 24, 2016 12:51:49 GMT -5
DW definitely struggles with this some. What helps me most is remembering that the choices we have made are deeply rooted in our values about money, material things, and security. It is getting a bit harder as our choices fall more outside the norm. Our 2 br condo and 2003 Toyota Corolla were pretty average when we were in grad school, but it's definitely a lifestyle choice now with established careers and 1.5 kids.
I think I struggle with it less because I NEVER could have imagined when I was growing up that I would have this level of security and relative financial comfort. It feels like such a blessing to me, that I never want to take it for granted or forget how lucky I am. I also do have weird issues feeling uncomfortable with our level of financial success compared to my family, which is sort of the flip side of keeping up with the Joneses.
Post by browneyedhunni85 on Aug 24, 2016 14:00:00 GMT -5
I struggle a little but I remember we have zero debt and no mortgage. This allows me to stay home. I really would love a newer car but hello, no car payment. I'm one of those if it ain't broke don't fix it types of people. My car is 19 years old and the best car I've owned. I've never had a car payment and never intend to. I'll eventually get something newer but eh it's really not that big of a deal. I'm happy we don't have to stress about money and if it means an older car and not the biggest house then I'm fine with it.
Post by thecatinthehat on Aug 24, 2016 14:15:06 GMT -5
It crosses my mind from time to time but I try to shut it down fast. Our house probably costs almost as much as DH yearly gross, we could definitely afford more and people who make as much are in homes way much better than ours. We drive very average cars. Sometimes DH and I think why don't we live in a house like that or I see a mom who I can kinda guess HHi based on their jobs and drives a luxury car and get a little jealous, we could totally afford that. But right now it's just not a priority, our house serves its purpose. I get in my Prius and and see no need for a more expensive car. We have more financial flexibility.
We see the extra fluff more as a want than a need right now. But we do spend stuff on other things, we eat out a lot, outsource almost every housework, if I could get a private chef I would LOL.
I do feel twinges of jealousy here and there but I also feel quite fortunate to have everything we need and many things we want, after growing up with practically nothing.
pantsparty , I'm really glad I was born and raised here, so things don't seem that off the wall.
Poor Kirk coming from Utah and Oregon. (wilted) I remember once early on in college, we had a conversation about expected real estate prices. The man nearly had a heart attack when I showed him what I'd expect from a $700k - $1 MM range residence.
Here he was thinking of things like having a few acres, not seeing your neighbors, etc..
I was like, "Oh, so you're clearly talking about a foreclosure with this price point scenario. If it's got a roof, and the previous owner wasn't running a methlab, SCORE! Better yet, if we can get a bit of a discount for a once active hazmat site, even better!".
I'm so your husband in this conversation.
I'm from super-rural Ohio. I vividly remember in high school thinking, "some day I'm going to make it big. I just know I'm going to live in a house work 100k. I know I can do it!"
I have twinges of jealously, but not the need to keep up with the Joneses. Then again maybe we are the Joneses to some with a brand new house, nice cars, and family support.
But my parents taught me early to save, plan for the future, and just because you can afford something doesn't mean you need it.
I'm like farmvillelover , I'll roll up to something in my LV neverfull with my ON dress that's probably 3 years old.
I really think it's about balance.
In our circles, this is actually quite normal. Just because you can purchase luxury everything, doesn't mean you want to, or are willing to do so.
At least here, people with extremely high net worths and multi-million dollar homes, will still be at Dollar Tree/$0.99 Only Stores, Home Goods, Nordstrom Rack, and Costco looking for deals to get their "money's worth".
You (younger generations) get your own job for disposable high end goods, like purses and shoes, because that's not what your family's generational money is for at all. That money is for K- grad school, houses, you first couple cars, family vacations, helping others in need, international trips to wherever your family's real home is located, and to help other family members adapt after the immigration process.
If your whole family is in the States, say if you're white, you skip the immigration stuff, but the other items listed are virtually the same.
Yep. We own 3 cars outright (2 SUVs and a sports car), paid off our mortgage last year, and have a pretty amazing investment portfolio.
Now that I stay at home I have more time to save, and more incentive to do so. I was at Dollar Tree yesterday stocking up on their $1 whole wheat sandwich loaves which cost $2-3 at the grocery store. (We have a chest freezer.) It's not about the dollar savings per loaf in that moment, necessarily. It's the accumulation. It's about the 100-200% markup at the regular grocery store for the SAME BREAD. Something which we consume daily.
Monday night I drove 30 minutes to drop off a pile of clothes and kid stuff for a community consignment sale. Then last night I drove another 30 minutes each way to shop that sale for winter clothes and future sizes. All while wearing $180 white designer jeans, had Tieks on my feet, was carrying a Goyard bag... and was wearing a $1 solid black long sleeve Faded Glory tee from Walmart. I bought a $2 pajama set, and solid teal twin sheets for DS's future twin bed for $5. Oh, and a Ziplock bag of used Boden socks for $2.50. LOL.
We live in a very modest house with practically no property, in a very wealthy area. My car is starting to age, but I will probably drive it into the ground. Sure I get twinges of longing for a larger home. Kitchen, mostly. But we're going to do it "right" by our standards, and enter into our next home purchase with little debt. And that means living beneath our means so we can always not only keep our heads above water and avoid debt, but continue to accumulate wealth for the future. Be it our retirement, DS's education, or his first home.
I'm also in the midst of this learning curve where we're budgeting our fun money. It's been really humbling to shop my closet vs. pulling the trigger on so many "wants". I've slowly started to want less, because that's really an emotion for me. A longing, really. And I hate living that way. SaveSaveSaveSave
pantsparty , I'm really glad I was born and raised here, so things don't seem that off the wall.
Poor Kirk coming from Utah and Oregon. (wilted) I remember once early on in college, we had a conversation about expected real estate prices. The man nearly had a heart attack when I showed him what I'd expect from a $700k - $1 MM range residence.
Here he was thinking of things like having a few acres, not seeing your neighbors, etc..
I was like, "Oh, so you're clearly talking about a foreclosure with this price point scenario. If it's got a roof, and the previous owner wasn't running a methlab, SCORE! Better yet, if we can get a bit of a discount for a once active hazmat site, even better!".
Why do you think we moved inland? I know for the native southern Californians this is UNTHINKABLE but my midwest born-and-raised self couldn't come to terms with paying $600k - $700k for less than 2,000 SF and a thimble-sized yard. If we didn't both work at home, I think that would be okay, but I really need my space Every time my parents are out here they just gawk at housing prices. It's like a totally different world. Sunshine tax! (hot)