Yes, it is up for discussion. These discussions are happening in places where they arent policed. I never claimed that Palestine was innocent and I did say that by ratifying, they opened themselves up to investigation as well. This is still good! Israel should be open for investigation as well. So should the US. Yet, other factors influence ICC involvement.
Nobody is policing shit here. It's a message board - people post whatever the fuck they want and other people are free to disagree with that and call it out as being antisemitic if that's what they see. Acting like we're being censored because our jewish posters are vocal about their views is some bullshit.
There actually is such a thing as tone policing. Notice how even the question of an investigation is called anti-Semitic by the party in support of the oppression state. Allowing the oppressor to define the language stifles conversation and actions towards justice. Israel wants to get away with human rights abuses because other oppressive states can. Just think about that.
Nobody is policing shit here. It's a message board - people post whatever the fuck they want and other people are free to disagree with that and call it out as being antisemitic if that's what they see. Acting like we're being censored because our jewish posters are vocal about their views is some bullshit.
There actually is such a thing as tone policing. Notice how even the question of an investigation is called anti-Semitic by the party in support of the oppression state. Allowing the oppressor to define the language stifles conversation and actions towards justice. Israel wants to get away with human rights abuses because other oppressive states can. Just think about that.
LOL! So now you have 2 troll accounts? Why couldn't you do this under your "main" account?
There actually is such a thing as tone policing. Notice how even the question of an investigation is called anti-Semitic by the party in support of the oppression state. Allowing the oppressor to define the language stifles conversation and actions towards justice. Israel wants to get away with human rights abuses because other oppressive states can. Just think about that.
LOL! So now you have 2 troll accounts? Why couldn't you do this under your "main" account?
Nobody is policing shit here. It's a message board - people post whatever the fuck they want and other people are free to disagree with that and call it out as being antisemitic if that's what they see. Acting like we're being censored because our jewish posters are vocal about their views is some bullshit.
There actually is such a thing as tone policing. Notice how even the question of an investigation is called anti-Semitic by the party in support of the oppression state. Allowing the oppressor to define the language stifles conversation and actions towards justice. Israel wants to get away with human rights abuses because other oppressive states can. Just think about that.
^o) I'm sorry but who busts into a brand new group bringing up such a controversial topic and starts off by immediately accusing others of being biased, policing language and tone, and favoring an oppressive regime? Either you are one of the many old posters who were previously run off because of showing your ass re: racism OR you are a huge troll who scours the Internet for reasons to rant against Israel. Either way, I don't know why you think we should this seriously.
There actually is such a thing as tone policing. Notice how even the question of an investigation is called anti-Semitic by the party in support of the oppression state. Allowing the oppressor to define the language stifles conversation and actions towards justice. Israel wants to get away with human rights abuses because other oppressive states can. Just think about that.
I'm sorry but who busts into a brand new group bringing up such a controversial topic and starts off by immediately accusing others of being biased, policing language and tone, and favoring an oppressive regime? Either you are one of the many old posters who were previously run off because of showing your ass re: racism OR you are a huge troll who scours the Internet for reasons to rant against Israel. Either way, I don't know why you think we should this seriously.
Y'know, this is a topic that people are paid to troll message boards for. ETA: this is merely and aside. I don't think this person is being paid.
Nobody is policing shit here. It's a message board - people post whatever the fuck they want and other people are free to disagree with that and call it out as being antisemitic if that's what they see. Acting like we're being censored because our jewish posters are vocal about their views is some bullshit.
There actually is such a thing as tone policing. Notice how even the question of an investigation is called anti-Semitic by the party in support of the oppression state. Allowing the oppressor to define the language stifles conversation and actions towards justice. Israel wants to get away with human rights abuses because other oppressive states can. Just think about that.
This statement is anti-semetic. Let me explain why. You just referred to a Jewish poster as the oppressor. Even if everyone agrees that Israel is the oppressor, a Jewish (and I think American) person does not have to answer or be called to the mat for israel's sins. Someone who is sympathetic or not willing to wholesale sell Israel down the river does not make them accountable for every decision made by her.
There actually is such a thing as tone policing. Notice how even the question of an investigation is called anti-Semitic by the party in support of the oppression state. Allowing the oppressor to define the language stifles conversation and actions towards justice. Israel wants to get away with human rights abuses because other oppressive states can. Just think about that.
This statement is anti-semetic. Let me explain why. You just referred to a Jewish poster as the oppressor. Even if everyone agrees that Israel is the oppressor, a Jewish (and I think American) person does not have to answer or be called to the mat for israel's sins. Someone who is sympathetic or not willing to wholesale sell Israel down the river does not make them accountable for every decision made by her.
There is a difference between 'supporter of an oppressive state' and jumping to all Jews are oppressors. That's not what I did. Some Jews support the oppression of Palestinians and some don't. Even so, it's Israel doing the oppression.
I'm sorry but who busts into a brand new group bringing up such a controversial topic and starts off by immediately accusing others of being biased, policing language and tone, and favoring an oppressive regime? Either you are one of the many old posters who were previously run off because of showing your ass re: racism OR you are a huge troll who scours the Internet for reasons to rant against Israel. Either way, I don't know why you think we should this seriously.
Y'know, this is a topic that people are paid to troll message boards for. ETA: this is merely and aside. I don't think this person is being paid.
TBH I think it is a bit fishy that this person started posting on the same day that LittleMoxie coincidentally showed up again.
TTT was fairly pro-Palestine as I recall but BBB was the one who went to the mat over the term apartheid.
The term I was linking goes into genocide as part of the Apartheid Convention. Believe it or not, there are lots of people that support UN involvement to bring peace. There even had to be a dog whistle thread to stifle the Gal Gadot conversation and that only had one Palestinian voice and one black woman willing to ask questions about terms, albeit poorly. This is my only name here and I have never been run off for being racist.
This statement is anti-semetic. Let me explain why. You just referred to a Jewish poster as the oppressor. Even if everyone agrees that Israel is the oppressor, a Jewish (and I think American) person does not have to answer or be called to the mat for israel's sins. Someone who is sympathetic or not willing to wholesale sell Israel down the river does not make them accountable for every decision made by her.
There is a difference between 'supporter of an oppressive state' and jumping to all Jews are oppressors. That's not what I did. Some Jews support the oppression of Palestinians and some don't. Even so, it's Israel doing the oppression.
You stated that we "cannot let the oppressor define the language" in reference to this thread as compared to the other one that was being "policed." So let's be clear. As far as I know, we not only do not have a single member of the Israeli government on this board posting, we also have not had an Israeli post (though again, they are not responsible for every action of their government). Therefore, the only oppressor you could have been referring to is the American Jews posting on this forum.
Can I ask a question(honest genuine question) Do the majority of Palestinian/Palestinian-Americans believe Israel is an Apartheid state. Do they accuse Israel of genocide?
It seems like a few people here are trying to make the argument that Israel is trying to control the message here. Of course no country wants to be labeled with such language. That doesn't make it factually untrue.
*Disclaimer: I'm not calling Israel anything. I'm truly trying to understand the other perspective which we don't get to hear too much of*****
This is a good question but one I don't know the answer to.
ETA: I'm trying to find some research about how American-Palestinians feel about the conflict and Israel. Pew Foundation does a lot of research on all types of issue including the conflict, so I'm starting there.
There is a difference between 'supporter of an oppressive state' and jumping to all Jews are oppressors. That's not what I did. Some Jews support the oppression of Palestinians and some don't. Even so, it's Israel doing the oppression.
You stated that we "cannot let the oppressor define the language" in reference to this thread as compared to the other one that was being "policed." So let's be clear. As far as I know, we not only do not have a single member of the Israeli government on this board posting, we also have not had an Israeli post (though again, they are not responsible for every action of their government). Therefore, the only oppressor you could have been referring to is the American Jews posting on this forum.
Israel is the controlling language. Obviously, supporters of Israel's actions against Palestine will tone police accordingly. Similar to how men tone police women. It is individual men doing policing, but patriarchy collectively that controls the message and requires power. An individual man cannot tone police alone. One Jewish person cannot tone police alone. It requires a grander message to stifle any conversation of people actually reading the links and UN conventions themselves.
Can I ask a question(honest genuine question) Do the majority of Palestinian/Palestinian-Americans believe Israel is an Apartheid state. Do they accuse Israel of genocide?
It seems like a few people here are trying to make the argument that Israel is trying to control the message here. Of course no country wants to be labeled with such language. That doesn't make it factually untrue.
*Disclaimer: I'm not calling Israel anything. I'm truly trying to understand the other perspective which we don't get to hear too much of*****
Ethiopian Jews that were subject to the temporary sterilization do consider it to be genocide. Israel admitting the action but not paying reparations or changing the attitudes against black Jews isn't enough. Palestinians overwhelming want intervention to achieve a two state solution. Again, ratifying the Rome Convention opens Palestine up to investigations themselves. They knew this. They still wanted the intervention and protection of the ICC.
You stated that we "cannot let the oppressor define the language" in reference to this thread as compared to the other one that was being "policed." So let's be clear. As far as I know, we not only do not have a single member of the Israeli government on this board posting, we also have not had an Israeli post (though again, they are not responsible for every action of their government). Therefore, the only oppressor you could have been referring to is the American Jews posting on this forum.
I don't like this. I didn't see her call anyone here an oppressor. If Israel is doing the killing/genocide/crimes against humanity than Israel is the oppressor. If you agree with their actions full sale you could be called a support of the oppressive state (again, I don't think anyone here is 100% in support of whatever Israel is doing).
She stated that the oppressor is defining the language that can be used. American Jews are the ones in here saying that apartheid and genocide are not appropriate terms. We have received no marching orders from the state of Israel and have explained MANY times why that language does not fit (while always having to caveat that we do not agree with all of israel's actions). So yes, she did insinuate if not flat out state that at least the Jews who spoke up here are the oppressor. Conflating American Jews with Israel's actions is definitely anti-semetic.
Ethiopian Jews that were subject to the temporary sterilization do consider it to be genocide. Israel admitting the action but not paying reparations or changing the attitudes against black Jews isn't enough. Palestinians overwhelming want intervention to achieve a two state solution. Again, ratifying the Rome Convention opens Palestine up to investigations themselves. They knew this. They still wanted the intervention and protection of the ICC.
There is no such thing as temporary sterilization. That is an oxymoron, you moron. Sterilization is permanent state of being.
WORDS HAVE MEANING, YOU IGNORANT SHMUCK!
I'll gladly amend to 'imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group'. That's the language used in the Rome Statute. It applies.
Interesting. The article says that the opinion firm, Dialog, interviewed 503 Israeli Jews out of 6,000,000 in Israel to answer these questions. Is this a typical representative percentage (.0083%) to base a general national opinion?
She stated that the oppressor is defining the language that can be used. American Jews are the ones in here saying that apartheid and genocide are not appropriate terms. We have received no marching orders from the state of Israel and have explained MANY times why that language does not fit (while always having to caveat that we do not agree with all of israel's actions). So yes, she did insinuate if not flat out state that at least the Jews who spoke up here are the oppressor. Conflating American Jews with Israel's actions is definitely anti-semetic.
So you are saying Jewish Americans are controlling the language on this? Does Israel consider itself an Apartheid state? Seriously, now I'm confused.
I'm saying that on this board, and in this thread, to which she's responding, it is Jewish Americans saying apartheid and genocide are inappropriate terminology (so I guess controlling the language here). I would doubt that Israel considers herself an apartheid state, but again, no one representing Israel is participating in this conversation.
She stated that the oppressor is defining the language that can be used. American Jews are the ones in here saying that apartheid and genocide are not appropriate terms. We have received no marching orders from the state of Israel and have explained MANY times why that language does not fit (while always having to caveat that we do not agree with all of israel's actions). So yes, she did insinuate if not flat out state that at least the Jews who spoke up here are the oppressor. Conflating American Jews with Israel's actions is definitely anti-semetic.
So you are saying Jewish Americans are controlling the language on this? Does Israel consider itself an Apartheid state? Seriously, now I'm confused.
Israel obviously supports the action they are taking. They tone police language that would open them up to dealing with the consequences of those actions. If you never call it out, you get to keep on, keeping on.
Post by lovelyshoes on Jun 27, 2017 13:31:53 GMT -5
Your article cites opinions of 503 people out of 6 million, that's great math re majority view of Israelies.
Again, you can't lump everyone under one umbrella. It has been repeated over and over and over. I don't care if you change your mind or whatever, I actually prefer when people show their bias upfront instead of pretending.