Also, I will ask that non-Jewish posters stop trying to correct Jewish ones on what is anti-semitic. That includes saying things like "this is what Jewish people I know would say and they could be called anti-semitic here!". Those people are not here and are not being called anti-semitic. Stop trying to delegitimize points that the active Jewish posters like myself are bringing up in these threads.
I hope what I wrote earlier was not seen as delegitimizing posts. I was trying to illustrate the point already being made that there isn't cohesiveness within either group. Not all Jews agree with Israel's actions and not all Palestinians agree with Hamas.
My brother was sharing with me what some Jewish people he knows have been called (anti-Semitic and anti Israel) because they are a part of proPalestine organizations.
I'm not an active poster, but I am left-wing enough on these issues that I have been called a self-hating Jew---but more usually I am told that I just don't understand. I think this kind of remark just illustrates the extent to which there are both no easy answers and a really broad range of experiences and opinions within two relatively small populations. I'm treading cautiously in these threads because I am mostly a lurker, and I feel like it would be untoward to take the focus off of the opinions of those who are active participants in the community. But if anyone has questions about the left of center Jewish American world, I'd be happy to take a stab at answering them.
Israeli/all Middle Eastern Food is my favorite Behold my stack of Middle Eastern cookbooks! And there are so many more I want that I need to sneak in and hide from my husband until I produce some fabulous dish from them.
I have almost all of these. My Jerusalem cookbook is so stained from use that I had to buy an electronic version as a supplement.
Also iPad editions are good ways to hide a cookbook problem form your spouse. Not that I'd know anything about that.
I just ordered Zahav and a Persian cookbook. Whenever anyone brings up the Iran deal, I'm like "yeah, sure, whatever uninformed thing you say, but what about the food!"
Good thinking with the iPad! Sometimes I just open the Jerusalem cookbook to look at the pictures. It's so beautiful
Israeli/all Middle Eastern Food is my favorite Behold my stack of Middle Eastern cookbooks! And there are so many more I want that I need to sneak in and hide from my husband until I produce some fabulous dish from them.
Also, I will ask that non-Jewish posters stop trying to correct Jewish ones on what is anti-semitic. That includes saying things like "this is what Jewish people I know would say and they could be called anti-semitic here!". Those people are not here and are not being called anti-semitic. Stop trying to delegitimize points that the active Jewish posters like myself are bringing up in these threads.
I hope what I wrote earlier was not seen as delegitimizing posts. I was trying to illustrate the point already being made that there isn't cohesiveness within either group. Not all Jews agree with Israel's actions and not all Palestinians agree with Hamas.
My brother was sharing with me what some Jewish people he knows have been called (anti-Semitic and anti Israel) because they are a part of proPalestine organizations.
Yup, I'm one of those people. According to some members of my extended Israeli-American family, I'm an Israel hater for supporting 2 states and recognize the existence of Palestine. According to them, they are all Arabs (they argue there is no such thing as a Palestinian), all Arabs are terrorists who want Israel destroyed (so therefore all of Israels actions are justified), and Israel can do no wrong.
Notably, these are the same people who voted for Trump. I have not seen them in over a year and don't plan to willingly, ever again. These are the people that are making anti-Israeli sentiments justified- which as a strong supporter of the state of Israel (but certainly not the policies currently in place), it makes the situation so much worse.
Simon Schama's The Story of the Jews documentary www.pbs.org/wnet/story-jews/ I think there's a podcast that goes with it?
Oh OK. I started the first episode of this today.
You might want to get tissues for episode 3. It really doesn't even spend much time on the Holocaust at all, and it's mostly about the Jewish-German Enlightenment. But it was all so hopeful at the time. And knowing how it ends makes it difficult to watch
This is from 2007 - a piece called the past didn't go anywhere
My friend posted it on FB today. It's very relevant to the conversation of how we can keep activism for Palestinian rights separate from antisemitism. If anyone wants the entire document (25 pages total, I think), I can share. The early pages are more about historical antisemitism, so I chose the ones that are relevant to this conversation. [imgsrc="https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170629/cc05e2f854fd6bf271ccf5cc6af0439b.jpg"]
The whole thing is excellent and worth a read by everyone. Page 20 talks about Palestinian voices suffering from censorship and I obviously believe that to be true. A few questions for anyone interested in answering: Is it possible to advocate for UN and/or ICC involvement without being antisemitic, given that the goal is to stop the crime and not dismantle the state? Can advocates for UN and ICC involvement even question the charges covered in the Rome Statute without being antisemitic? Can you explain how the measures taken against Ethiopian Jews to reduce the birth rate by 50% and halt their right of return to reduce their population by race would not be accurately describes as genocide as described in the Rome Statute? Given how censorship of oppressed populations happen, these are hard conversations to navigate on both sides. Even questioning other crimes sanctioned by the ICC but avoiding the words 'apartheid' and 'genocide', would have the same effect of wanting an investigation to answer those questions instead of taking Palestine or Israel's word for it. Finally, is there another way you personally would like to see Palestine overcome it's oppression, other than pursuing ICC charges or UN intervention?
I'm not well enough versed in the legality end, but I think the UN/ICC approach is not the solution with Israel's current leadership and the narrative on the right in both the Israeli and American Jewish community. I would put myself as a moderately left of center progressive Jew. I do most of my work in the Conservative and Reform movements and live in an area where more Jews are Republican than average (although very few I know voted for Trump - like 2 out of 100s).
I've done a lot of work in this area within the Jewish community and I know a lot of Israelis both here and in Israel. So this is based on my anecdotal experience, but bring up the UN and the conversation shuts down. The defensiveness comes up. Based on my experience, I don't think the UN or ICC can just swoop in, pressure Israel, and that will solve the problem. At one point there was a roadmap for peace that involved a variety of steps by both parties that would lead toward a nonviolent resolution. I feel like that was a lifetime ago, but it has the most hope, imo. If Abbas/the PA can sit at the table with a moderate Israeli leader (z"l Yitzchak Rabin) and set clear deadlines and consequences for missing steps on the roadmap with the UN/ICC along with the US to enforce at specific​ points, perhaps that has a chance. We really need Bibi gone. His current coalition is not good for advancing peace.
I do think most Israelis and American Jews oppose settlements. That is an "easy" first step. That wasn't the case 10 years ago. The settlers are living on the backs of the secular and non-extremist Israeli Jews and I think it's becoming a unifying issue (which is good).
Just today I saw an article that the AIPAC leadership is headed to the Knesset to meet with Bibi because of his latest fuckery with the Kotel. This would've been unthinkable 10 years ago - AIPAC has not been so great at criticizing the Israeli government, even when it acts against those American Jewish interests it claims to support. I think that signals a huge shift in opinion toward Israel activism here. With Israeli and American Jews putting pressure on the government, there's much more hope for a resolution that addresses the needs of the Palestinian people without sending Israeli and American Jews into a defensive and fearful position which the hawkish leadership can use to stay in power.
Thank you for your answers. I think for a long time, negotiations between the states would have been the way to go, yet the situation has gotten progressively worse and that leaves Palestine will little options. Palestine didn't ratify until 2015 and the UN resolution didn't come out until last year so it seems like as soon as a little headway is finally made with pursuing those options, people supporting the actions of Israel want to shut that conversation down and ask Palestine to go back to the drawing board. Even the UN resolution last year doesn't accomplish all of what all Palestinians want but for the most part, it's acknowledged that Palestine would not be able to negotiate alone for '67 borders and BDS for Palestinian territory. So now it's expected that they negotiate without the UN or the ICC and just take another loss. Can you see how shutting down the conversation when Palestine finally garners some leverage from UN support seems disingenuous​ to a true negotiation strategy? Palestine can't just ask nicely for all of those things and have any chance of making the same progress as they could with the UN.
There are still questions about how to address and rectify what Ethiopian Jews are facing. Internal pressure from Israelis would be great, but is that happening or is it being dismissed as a small issue? Ethiopian Jews in camps waiting for return don't have many options, either.