But if no one votes 3rd party because they don't have a chance doesn't that reinforce the current system? I'm not saying it can change overnight, but lets say 10% of voters vote 3rd party this election and then next election 15% vote and it keeps going until they're actually in the running. Does it not work this way? Am I being naive? I honestly don't know a ton about politics, it just seems like it should work that way.
Kind of.
This isn't the same, but it's somewhat related to the free rider problem.
That I vote third-party in every election won't change that the vast majority of people will vote for one of the major parties. And in voting for a third party, I actually am likely to help the candidate who is farthest from my views get elected.
Look at 1992 and and 2000 for great examples. Perot spoiled the election for H.W., and Nader spoiled it for Gore. So all those people who voted for Perot wound up handing Clinton a victory even though out of Bush and Clinton, they were more closely aligned with Bush.
I'm socially liberal and put the human and civil equality over economic issues. Basically, I care about people more than money.
Therefore, I vote democrat. I'd love to have a democrat that was a little bit more fiscally-responsible, but you know - dream world.
This is me too. In a perfect world my tax dollars would be efficiently helping people and helping make this country better. Maybe it isn't as efficient as it could be, but I'm okay with part of my salary being taken for the public good, and while I'd prefer to not pay more in taxes, if the money is needed to benefit people, it is okay with me to get taxed a little more.
Feel free to ask! I am not up for a debate or for things to get nasty, but I would be willing to answer your questions.
What are your thoughts on Romney? Do you agree with the Reps social views as well as fiscal? If so, why? As a woman (I'm assuming you're a woman) does their view on women's rights bother you at all?
I am not a big Romney fan but I will probably vote for him over Obama. I do agree with Republicans on most of the social issues. I guess it was how I was rasied. I am a Christian and while no, I am not protesting at abortion clinics, I do believe that a fetus is a baby and sometimes needs protection. Yes, I am a woman, and while I can see how some people might think that government is legislating down our throats I feel that nothing I want to do has been outlawed, I don't want to have an abortion or a gay marriage. I don't mind murderers being put to death at all. I don't have a problem with saying "under God" or "In God We Trust" in school. I am not for gun rights, so I guess I disagree with the conservative view on that.
What are your thoughts on Romney? Do you agree with the Reps social views as well as fiscal? If so, why? As a woman (I'm assuming you're a woman) does their view on women's rights bother you at all?
I am not a big Romney fan but I will probably vote for him over Obama. I do agree with Republicans on most of the social issues. I guess it was how I was rasied. I am a Christian and while no, I am not protesting at abortion clinics, I do believe that a fetus is a baby and sometimes needs protection. Yes, I am a woman, and while I can see how some people might think that government is legislating down our throats I feel that nothing I want to do has been outlawed, I don't want to have an abortion or a gay marriage. I don't mind murderers being put to death at all. I don't have a problem with saying "under God" or "In God We Trust" in school. I am not for gun rights, so I guess I disagree with the conservative view on that.
Notice all the "I"s.
This is my biggest complaint about (most) Republicans. I, I, me, me, me- it doesn't affect ME so I don't care.
Just in case those "fiscally conservative" Repubs have forgotten, the last balanced budget and budget surplus came under a Democratic president.
I have libertarian values and tend to vote Republican. To answer your question, today's fiscal conservatism is a movement to lessen debt, balance the budget, and work towards a surplus. It doesn't mean that all spending should be avoided.
Ok. So tell me how they're doing that. An unnecessary trillion dollar expenditure doesn't exactly go along with that philosophy, does it?
I am not a big Romney fan but I will probably vote for him over Obama. I do agree with Republicans on most of the social issues. I guess it was how I was rasied. I am a Christian and while no, I am not protesting at abortion clinics, I do believe that a fetus is a baby and sometimes needs protection. Yes, I am a woman, and while I can see how some people might think that government is legislating down our throats I feel that nothing I want to do has been outlawed, I don't want to have an abortion or a gay marriage. I don't mind murderers being put to death at all. I don't have a problem with saying "under God" or "In God We Trust" in school. I am not for gun rights, so I guess I disagree with the conservative view on that.
Notice all the "I"s.
This is my biggest complaint about (most) Republicans. I, I, me, me, me- it doesn't affect ME so I don't care.
I am not a big Romney fan but I will probably vote for him over Obama. I do agree with Republicans on most of the social issues. I guess it was how I was rasied. I am a Christian and while no, I am not protesting at abortion clinics, I do believe that a fetus is a baby and sometimes needs protection. Yes, I am a woman, and while I can see how some people might think that government is legislating down our throats I feel that nothing I want to do has been outlawed, I don't want to have an abortion or a gay marriage. I don't mind murderers being put to death at all. I don't have a problem with saying "under God" or "In God We Trust" in school. I am not for gun rights, so I guess I disagree with the conservative view on that.
Notice all the "I"s.
This is my biggest complaint about (most) Republicans. I, I, me, me, me- it doesn't affect ME so I don't care.
This infuriates me.
Well, the question was how do I feel about those issues. I was speaking for myself. Abortion and gay marriage don't affect me, and I am not out protesting it either.
I am not a big Romney fan but I will probably vote for him over Obama. I do agree with Republicans on most of the social issues. I guess it was how I was rasied. I am a Christian and while no, I am not protesting at abortion clinics, I do believe that a fetus is a baby and sometimes needs protection. Yes, I am a woman, and while I can see how some people might think that government is legislating down our throats I feel that nothing I want to do has been outlawed, I don't want to have an abortion or a gay marriage. I don't mind murderers being put to death at all. I don't have a problem with saying "under God" or "In God We Trust" in school. I am not for gun rights, so I guess I disagree with the conservative view on that.
Notice all the "I"s.
This is my biggest complaint about (most) Republicans. I, I, me, me, me- it doesn't affect ME so I don't care.
This infuriates me.
I noticed this too. If you're not going to have an abortion or marry your gay partner then why do you care if others do?
This is my biggest complaint about (most) Republicans. I, I, me, me, me- it doesn't affect ME so I don't care.
This infuriates me.
Well, the question was how do I feel about those issues. I was speaking for myself. Abortion and gay marriage don't affect me, and I am not out protesting it either.
But if you vote for someone who wants to ban them with the logic "it doesn't affect me so I don't care" that is pretty shitty.
Well, the question was how do I feel about those issues. I was speaking for myself. Abortion and gay marriage don't affect me, and I am not out protesting it either.
But if you vote for someone who wants to ban them with the logic "it doesn't affect me so I don't care" that is pretty shitty.
Can you rephrase this for me? I am not sure I understand what you are saying.
I noticed this too. If you're not going to have an abortion or marry your gay partner then why do you care if others do?
In my opinion abortions are killing babies. It's not right to kill something innocent and helpless.
Gay marriage- I base my belief system on my Christian background and because of that I think that gay marriage is not natural or right.
Why is it okay to force these beliefs on others though? When you vote for banning these things you aren't supporting your beliefs you are giving our government more control they than should have over personal issues.
I am not a big Romney fan but I will probably vote for him over Obama. I do agree with Republicans on most of the social issues. I guess it was how I was rasied. I am a Christian and while no, I am not protesting at abortion clinics, I do believe that a fetus is a baby and sometimes needs protection. Yes, I am a woman, and while I can see how some people might think that government is legislating down our throats I feel that nothing I want to do has been outlawed, I don't want to have an abortion or a gay marriage. I don't mind murderers being put to death at all. I don't have a problem with saying "under God" or "In God We Trust" in school.
Ok, but when that woman can't get an abortion and is forced to have that baby and as a result needs some type of social assistance where are your pro-life beliefs then? The GOP wants to cut those programs so there's a good chance that that baby could go hungry or homeless and have no access to health care. So instead of pro-life, they should just call themselves pro-fetus. Because once it's born, they forget about it.
"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is.". --- Sister Joan Chittister, Catholic Nun
But if you vote for someone who wants to ban them with the logic "it doesn't affect me so I don't care" that is pretty shitty.
Can you rephrase this for me? I am not sure I understand what you are saying.
You say you are speaking for yourself. Fine. Your beliefs are yours to have. When you see a candidiate who wants to keep gay marriage illegal or ban abortions and don't care because it doesn't affect you is the infuritating part.
I noticed this too. If you're not going to have an abortion or marry your gay partner then why do you care if others do?
In my opinion abortions are killing babies. It's not right to kill something innocent and helpless.
Gay marriage- I base my belief system on my Christian background and because of that I think that gay marriage is not natural or right.
But why should your belief system control how others live their lives? You know that we have freedom to practice whatever religion (or lack thereof) we want in the USA, right? You understand there is separation of church and state, right? You know that others aren't Christian, right? And there are plenty of other Christians who DO support gay marriage and abortion.
I would never try to legislate my religious beliefs on others. I don't understand the need for others to do so.
"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is.". --- Sister Joan Chittister, Catholic Nun
:Y: :Y: I have a lot of respect for people who are truly pro-life in all realms of society, e.g., anti-death penalty, pro-welfare, etc. But this seems not to be the case for most pro-lifers.
Yes, there are and they post occassionally. Way more Dems though.
I think a lot of those who hold Republican viewpoints feel oftentimes overwhelmed, as the staunch Dems who are on here are very vocal and it can be a bit much at times, so the Reps are more likely to be quiet and not engage. Which I think is a shame - I firmly believe that we have the opportunity to learn from each other, but it apparently doesn't work that way on here.
FTR, I don't vote in this country (yet) but if I did, I'd label myself a Fiscal Conservative, Social Liberal, with the caveat that right now, I think we're in such a fiscal hole that unless we take care of our financial issues immediately, we won't have the funds to continue with the social issues we need.
Cause I am pretty sure it's all democrats. I am a semi- republican, believing in a womans choice in abortion,gay marriage and I am not a fan of religion. Otherwise, I am all republican.
Yes, there are and they post occassionally. Way more Dems though.
I think a lot of those who hold Republican viewpoints feel oftentimes overwhelmed, as the staunch Dems who are on here are very vocal and it can be a bit much at times, so the Reps are more likely to be quiet and not engage. Which I think is a shame - I firmly believe that we have the opportunity to learn from each other, but it apparently doesn't work that way on here.
FTR, I don't vote in this country (yet) but if I did, I'd label myself a Fiscal Conservative, Social Liberal, with the caveat that right now, I think we're in such a fiscal hole that unless we take care of our financial issues immediately, we won't have the funds to continue with the social issues we need.
And I don't believe either party holds the magic wand to fix the economy, and never has. The economy is so much more than who is president-- depends on the market, depends on OTHER countries, etc.
And most social issues ARE economic issues. Abortion = bearing of children = more mouths to feed, affects whether a parent can work, can afford childcare, etc. Gay marriage = in addition to stimulating the economy by having more weddings (See, New York), it affects the right to benefits that they are denied, affects taxes, and a million other fiscal issues.
"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is.". --- Sister Joan Chittister, Catholic Nun
I have a lot of respect for people who are truly pro-life in all realms of society, e.g., anti-death penalty, pro-welfare, etc. But this seems not to be the case for most pro-lifers.
ditto! one of my best friends is truly pro-life and I have much more respect with her (and can talk to her about it rationally) because of this.
Yes, there are and they post occassionally. Way more Dems though.
I think a lot of those who hold Republican viewpoints feel oftentimes overwhelmed, as the staunch Dems who are on here are very vocal and it can be a bit much at times, so the Reps are more likely to be quiet and not engage. Which I think is a shame - I firmly believe that we have the opportunity to learn from each other, but it apparently doesn't work that way on here.
FTR, I don't vote in this country (yet) but if I did, I'd label myself a Fiscal Conservative, Social Liberal, with the caveat that right now, I think we're in such a fiscal hole that unless we take care of our financial issues immediately, we won't have the funds to continue with the social issues we need.
Counterargument though, what's the point of having a financially responsible country that does not treat it's citizens fairly and equally? And besides that, there's no monetary cost in allowing homosexuals to marry.
I don't usually participate in political discussions on here because I'm outnumbered and I don't feel like the majority of the board(s) want to learn from each other. There's no point in my contributing to the conversation.
In my opinion abortions are killing babies. It's not right to kill something innocent and helpless.
Gay marriage- I base my belief system on my Christian background and because of that I think that gay marriage is not natural or right.
Why is it okay to force these beliefs on others though? When you vote for banning these things you aren't supporting your beliefs you are giving our government more control they than should have over personal issues.
Because I don't think people should be doing immoral things. I base my political beliefs on my moral beliefs. Just because someone didn't murder me doesn't mean that I am okay with them murdering someone else.
I am not a big Romney fan but I will probably vote for him over Obama. I do agree with Republicans on most of the social issues. I guess it was how I was rasied. I am a Christian and while no, I am not protesting at abortion clinics, I do believe that a fetus is a baby and sometimes needs protection. Yes, I am a woman, and while I can see how some people might think that government is legislating down our throats I feel that nothing I want to do has been outlawed, I don't want to have an abortion or a gay marriage. I don't mind murderers being put to death at all. I don't have a problem with saying "under God" or "In God We Trust" in school.
Ok, but when that woman can't get an abortion and is forced to have that baby and as a result needs some type of social assistance where are your pro-life beliefs then? The GOP wants to cut those programs so there's a good chance that that baby could go hungry or homeless and have no access to health care. So instead of pro-life, they should just call themselves pro-fetus. Because once it's born, they forget about it.
"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is.". --- Sister Joan Chittister, Catholic Nun
I am fine with social welfare programs that actually do good things. I think that there is too much abuse of the system. I am sure that there are people who need these programs and I am happy to help them until they can get back on their feet.
Why is it okay to force these beliefs on others though? When you vote for banning these things you aren't supporting your beliefs you are giving our government more control they than should have over personal issues.
Because I don't think people should be doing immoral things. I base my political beliefs on my moral beliefs. Just because someone didn't murder me doesn't mean that I am okay with them murdering someone else.
But you believe its immoral based on your religion.
Other people don't believe these things are immoral.
I don't usually participate in political discussions on here because I'm outnumbered and I don't feel like the majority of the board(s) want to learn from each other. There's no point in my contributing to the conversation.
I disagree. I learn a lot from the Republicans/conservatives who post.
My biggest learning experience was posting on a Christian music message board as a teenager. I really learned a lot about the faith, and learned how to strengthen my own arguments as a result.
I also opened my mind, and became very good friends with some of the people on there, and vice versa. They learned from me, and I learned from them.
Ok, but when that woman can't get an abortion and is forced to have that baby and as a result needs some type of social assistance where are your pro-life beliefs then? The GOP wants to cut those programs so there's a good chance that that baby could go hungry or homeless and have no access to health care. So instead of pro-life, they should just call themselves pro-fetus. Because once it's born, they forget about it.
"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is.". --- Sister Joan Chittister, Catholic Nun
I am fine with social welfare programs that actually do good things. I think that there is too much abuse of the system. I am sure that there are people who need these programs and I am happy to help them until they can get back on their feet.
I hate this argument "abuse of the system". Guess what? The only people that you hear about who use programs when in need are people who fit the stereotype. The millions of people who work hard all their lives, pay their taxes and hit a rough spot once in a lifetime and fall back on a social safety net are more common than not. It's just that those hardworking people are probably so afraid of being judged by everyone ar0ound them they never mention that they used it. GHWB started this "conversation" in a campaign ad showing the "welfare queen" driving a cadillac and the image has persisted. Let's be honest - when you say "people abusing the system" you mean black people, right? I mean, really.