Why is it okay to force these beliefs on others though? When you vote for banning these things you aren't supporting your beliefs you are giving our government more control they than should have over personal issues.
Because I don't think people should be doing immoral things. I base my political beliefs on my moral beliefs. Just because someone didn't murder me doesn't mean that I am okay with them murdering someone else.
Murder and gay marriage are sort of apples and oranges.
I have libertarian values and tend to vote Republican. To answer your question, today's fiscal conservatism is a movement to lessen debt, balance the budget, and work towards a surplus. It doesn't mean that all spending should be avoided.
Ok. So tell me how they're doing that. An unnecessary trillion dollar expenditure doesn't exactly go along with that philosophy, does it?
Unfortunately, terrorism is a real threat. This isn't a partisan opinion, seeing as Obama has prolonged our presence in Afghanistan, thereby breaking his campaign promise. 9/11 resulted in thousands of deaths and it jettisoned our economy into a deep recession. And the aftermath of the Arab Spring is yet to be known.
I don't agree with excessive military spending, but sometimes it's a necessary evil. Besides, only about 20% of the federal budget goes to the military, and almost 60% goes to social welfare programs. If you want to talk about spending cuts, I'd sooner reform the latter than the former.
I am not a big Romney fan but I will probably vote for him over Obama. I do agree with Republicans on most of the social issues. I guess it was how I was rasied. I am a Christian and while no, I am not protesting at abortion clinics, I do believe that a fetus is a baby and sometimes needs protection. Yes, I am a woman, and while I can see how some people might think that government is legislating down our throats I feel that nothing I want to do has been outlawed, I don't want to have an abortion or a gay marriage. I don't mind murderers being put to death at all. I don't have a problem with saying "under God" or "In God We Trust" in school.
Ok, but when that woman can't get an abortion and is forced to have that baby and as a result needs some type of social assistance where are your pro-life beliefs then? The GOP wants to cut those programs so there's a good chance that that baby could go hungry or homeless and have no access to health care. So instead of pro-life, they should just call themselves pro-fetus. Because once it's born, they forget about it.
"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is.". --- Sister Joan Chittister, Catholic Nun
I don't agree with excessive military spending, but sometimes it's a necessary evil. Besides, only about 20% of the federal budget goes to the military, and almost 60% goes to social welfare programs. If you want to talk about spending cuts, I'd sooner reform the latter than the former.
Basically, it's ok to spend money on hypothetical terrorism (although that has failed miserably, as illustrated by other posters), but not ok to spend it on people? Got it.
In my opinion abortions are killing babies. It's not right to kill something innocent and helpless.
Gay marriage- I base my belief system on my Christian background and because of that I think that gay marriage is not natural or right.
But why should your belief system control how others live their lives? You know that we have freedom to practice whatever religion (or lack thereof) we want in the USA, right? You understand there is separation of church and state, right? You know that others aren't Christian, right? And there are plenty of other Christians who DO support gay marriage and abortion.
I would never try to legislate my religious beliefs on others. I don't understand the need for others to do so.
I understand, though, that my beliefs aren't the law though. I was only asked for my opinion. That is why I vote the way I vote, among other reasons. You can vote however you would like to for whatever reasons that you would like, like I am sure you do.
In my opinion abortions are killing babies. It's not right to kill something innocent and helpless.
Gay marriage- I base my belief system on my Christian background and because of that I think that gay marriage is not natural or right.
But we do not live in a Christian nation.
We were founded based on Christian beliefs, though. I realize that we are not all Christian, and that even within the Christian religion there are many different ideas. These are mine.
Post by msamyfarrahfowler on Sept 18, 2012 10:34:40 GMT -5
Cajun, I'm counting Medicare/caid, SS, and the safety nets. That's 54% according to the pie chart.
Ideally, none of these programs would exist. However, that will never happen in this country, so fiscal conservatives are simply trying to decrease expenditures for these programs. It's not a choice between "imaginary terrorism" and "people" as you put it. It's about having a balanced approach. Budget reform needs to happen across the board.
Because I don't think people should be doing immoral things. I base my political beliefs on my moral beliefs. Just because someone didn't murder me doesn't mean that I am okay with them murdering someone else.
But you believe its immoral based on your religion.
Other people don't believe these things are immoral.
And other people don't define abortion as murder.
In this example I was refering to adults killing other adults. I wasn't clear.
Though, yes, it is my belief that life begins at conception. Otherwise, where is the line? I guess I don't see how you can say that one minute this thing is not a baby, but the second it is born it is a baby?
Because I don't think people should be doing immoral things. I base my political beliefs on my moral beliefs. Just because someone didn't murder me doesn't mean that I am okay with them murdering someone else.
Murder and gay marriage are sort of apples and oranges.
You are right. I was using the murder thing as a more broad example. Just because someone is did something to someone else and it has nothing to do with me doesn't mean that it is right.
Post by iheartbanjos on Sept 18, 2012 10:37:31 GMT -5
I'm a registered independent who is a libertarian. I voted Obama last time and I'm not voting Romney this time, but I'm otherwise undecided. I dream of a time when there is a 3, 4, or even 5 party system.
But you believe its immoral based on your religion.
Other people don't believe these things are immoral.
And other people don't define abortion as murder.
In this example I was refering to adults killing other adults. I wasn't clear.
Though, yes, it is my belief that life begins at conception. Otherwise, where is the line? I guess I don't see how you can say that one minute this thing is not a baby, but the second it is born it is a baby?
Is that any weirder than saying that one minute a thing is a sperm and an egg, and the next minute it is a baby?
We were founded based on Christian beliefs, though. I realize that we are not all Christian, and that even within the Christian religion there are many different ideas. These are mine.
Actually, we were founded on freedom of religion- people escaping their home countries so they could practice their religions in peace. Some of the founders were deists but not necessarily Christian.
When beliefs infringe on the rights of others, thats when I have a problem. And your beliefs infringe on my right as a female. And infringe on the rights of my gay friends.
And I have the freedom to tell you I think your ideas suck Just like you have the freedom to say the same to me.
But you believe its immoral based on your religion.
Other people don't believe these things are immoral.
And other people don't define abortion as murder.
In this example I was refering to adults killing other adults. I wasn't clear.
Though, yes, it is my belief that life begins at conception. Otherwise, where is the line? I guess I don't see how you can say that one minute this thing is not a baby, but the second it is born it is a baby?
Who was talking about actual murder? We were talking about gay marriage and abortion. I don't believe murder of another viable human being is moral, either. Unless that other human being was trying to harm me or another person. Last time I checked, murder wasn't on the dem platform.
And I'm not even going into the abortion debate because that is so gray.
All I know is that even if the fetus IS determined to be a person--which I don't believe it is until it is born-- that the fetus' rights will never triumph the mother's rights in my mind.
I am fine with social welfare programs that actually do good things. I think that there is too much abuse of the system. I am sure that there are people who need these programs and I am happy to help them until they can get back on their feet.
I hate this argument "abuse of the system". Guess what? The only people that you hear about who use programs when in need are people who fit the stereotype. The millions of people who work hard all their lives, pay their taxes and hit a rough spot once in a lifetime and fall back on a social safety net are more common than not. It's just that those hardworking people are probably so afraid of being judged by everyone ar0ound them they never mention that they used it. GHWB started this "conversation" in a campaign ad showing the "welfare queen" driving a cadillac and the image has persisted. Let's be honest - when you say "people abusing the system" you mean black people, right? I mean, really.
Absoultly not! I am refering to the people who never get out of "the system" because they don't want to. If people are unemployed, or down on their luck for whatever reason I am more than happy to help them out. People who abuse the system come in all types.
In this example I was refering to adults killing other adults. I wasn't clear.
Though, yes, it is my belief that life begins at conception. Otherwise, where is the line? I guess I don't see how you can say that one minute this thing is not a baby, but the second it is born it is a baby?
Is that any weirder than saying that one minute a thing is a sperm and an egg, and the next minute it is a baby?
Cajun, I'm counting Medicare/caid, SS, and the safety nets. That's 54% according to the pie chart.
Wait. You consider SSDI social welfare?
I do. Just like I consider my federal student loans social welfare. Yes, its something I am paying back, but its still a government funded program that enabled me to do something I could not afford on my own.
I'm a registered independent who is a libertarian. I voted Obama last time and I'm not voting Romney this time, but I'm otherwise undecided. I dream of a time when there is a 3, 4, or even 5 party system.
If you want a multi party system, I suggest you study Israeli politics.
I'm a registered independent who is a libertarian. I voted Obama last time and I'm not voting Romney this time, but I'm otherwise undecided. I dream of a time when there is a 3, 4, or even 5 party system.
I respectfully disagree with this.
You don't have to be extreme left or extreme right, but you can definitely side the party or candidate that support most, if not all; your values. This method to me, is a total waste of taxpayer's money, time and votes. I've seen it time and time again. Pick a side. It's not that hard.
I do. Just like I consider my federal student loans social welfare. Yes, its something I am paying back, but its still a government funded program that enabled me to do something I could not afford on my own.
But SSDI is based on what I paid into the system. It's not a loan to keep me off the streets.
In my opinion abortions are killing babies. It's not right to kill something innocent and helpless.
Gay marriage- I base my belief system on my Christian background and because of that I think that gay marriage is not natural or right.
I won't bash you because you didn't post for that purpose, and I also appreciate your input.
I agree that a fetus is a baby. I personally could never have an abortion. That said, i don't feel the gov't should tell me what to do with my body.
I also have a question because this confuses me. The Republicans generally want to cut funding for various government programs that help those less fortunate. But if you aren't allowed to have an abortion (if Roe. v. Wade were reversed), what happens to all the babies and mothers who can not afford health care? Who can't afford day care? Is that really Pro Life if you can't afford to care for your kid?
Honest question, I promise I am not causing drama.
I would rather pay for the healthcare for the baby and the mother than to see the baby die because the mother can't get coverage. That being said, I would also like the mother, and the father to do everything they can to be able to provide for that child as well as themselves.
If we are going to have the social welfare programs I would rather they serve the people that need them than the people that want them. To be able to actually help people to the point that they can become self sufficiant, that would be great.
So yeah, I am fine helping people who need help because of an unplanned baby. But I give the side-eye to people who have lots of kids just so they can get more assistance from the government.
I do. Just like I consider my federal student loans social welfare. Yes, its something I am paying back, but its still a government funded program that enabled me to do something I could not afford on my own.
But SSDI is based on what I paid into the system. It's not a loan to keep me off the streets.
um, you didn't pay exactly what you are getting out. The amount you paid into it was a lot less than what you will be getting.