I'm curious what a successful meat-free initiative looks like then or as impactful as meat-free. I don't mean snark around this because I thought this was a generally decent effort than most companies/people are providing.
I think this is an area that companies shouldn't be dabbling in. Just leave it.
There are a million other ways they can drive good environmental stewardship that doesn't get into personal employee issues.
Except if they’re traveling for work or attending lunch meetings.
But they could use their own money while traveling or bring their own food to the meeting?
Not if the meeting is at a restaurant. And of course they can buy their own food while traveling, but the reason traveling is expensed is because you don’t have the option to bring/make your own food and therefore need to spend more money on food so people who have trouble finding non-meat dishes at restaurants because of dietary restrictions are penalized.
Except if they’re traveling for work or attending lunch meetings.
But they could use their own money while traveling or bring their own food to the meeting?
So everyone around the table gets their pasta paid for by the boss, but the diabetic secretary has to ask for a separate check, and then explain to the table of coworkers and superiors why she needed to eat a chicken caesar?
Except if they’re traveling for work or attending lunch meetings.
But they could use their own money while traveling or bring their own food to the meeting?
No. I travel a lot for work. I also have strict dietary requirements like mrs.jacinthe outlined above. I would have to quit my job if my employer implemented this policy. I can’t afford to eat out every meal on my own dime and I certainly can’t carry a week’s worth of groceries all over the state with no reliable access to refrigeration.
Except if they’re traveling for work or attending lunch meetings.
But they could use their own money while traveling or bring their own food to the meeting?
I'm going to go ahead and add to the pile on because what!? You're kidding with this right? So because someone has celiac or is allergic to various plant based sources being served or has some other nutritional requirement that makes it necessary for them to eat meat, they have to pay for it on their own while everyone else comped? You don't think that's 100% discriminatory?
If someone really has issues that might prevent them from eating a meat-free diet (IBS or Crohns comes to mind), I'm sure they pre-plan their meals and bring things they can actually eat, much like most vegans or diabetics, really.
How does someone who eats meat pre-plan their meals when traveling for business and going out to eat with others?
Since we have the Internet, it’s easy. Most restaurants have menus online and yelp reviews that discuss the food.
I'm curious what a successful meat-free initiative looks like then or as impactful as meat-free. I don't mean snark around this because I thought this was a generally decent effort than most companies/people are providing.
I think this is an area that companies shouldn't be dabbling in. Just leave it.
There are a million other ways they can drive good environmental stewardship that doesn't get into personal employee issues.
Is this from a legal perspective or a general perspective? Reduced animal product consumption is considered to be one of the gold standards of environmental stewardship, according to some (though somewhat controversial). Also, personal sacrifice is... a complicated discussion, but may have more of an impact that passive choices like installing solar panels, which employees may not be aware of.
Also, do you know if dietary restrictions are covered by the ADA? Would someone need an actual diagnosis of a medical issue that can be treated via diet, like diabetes?
That seems tricky to enforce because of people’s dietary/medical needs - not to mention how hard it would be to effectively manage. It’s not like most restaurant receipts accurately list all ingredients of any given dish.
Is there a diet/medical need that requires meat?
My H is allergic to all legumes and most nuts. Unless there are eggs available, that removes nearly all non-meat protein sources. I guess he could a pasta dish, but he'd be hungry an hour later.
I'm curious what a successful meat-free initiative looks like then or as impactful as meat-free. I don't mean snark around this because I thought this was a generally decent effort than most companies/people are providing.
I think this is an area that companies shouldn't be dabbling in. Just leave it.
There are a million other ways they can drive good environmental stewardship that doesn't get into personal employee issues.
I bet it saves them money on their insurance costs (saves the company money, that is).
Post by walterismydog on Jul 17, 2018 14:59:12 GMT -5
Lol. No. It’s not easy. It’s very challenging, especially in small towns with two restaurants and no Yelp and no internet access because cell phones don’t work there and “what’s wifi?”. Yes. This happens to me regularly.
Guess what most small towns don’t have? Vegetarian options on their menu.
But they could use their own money while traveling or bring their own food to the meeting?
So everyone around the table gets their pasta paid for by the boss, but the diabetic secretary has to ask for a separate check, and then explain to the table of coworkers and superiors why she needed to eat a chicken caesar?
I am vegetarian and pre-diabetic. In your scenario, the secretary that is diabetic could get a salad with a side of roasted lower carb veggie. This is what I get when I go out on work dinners. It is generally very good, and not bummer. She doesn't need meat to have a good meal!
But they could use their own money while traveling or bring their own food to the meeting?
I'm going to go ahead and add to the pile on because what!? You're kidding with this right? So because someone has celiac or is allergic to various plant based sources being served or has some other nutritional requirement that makes it necessary for them to eat meat, they have to pay for it on their own while everyone else comped? You don't think that's 100% discriminatory?
Sure is, but it's something vegetarians and celiacs deal with every single day. Not to the extent that they can't find something while traveling, but certainly at company-provided lunches where they get catering from a local restaurant. So... where is the line? Does it depend on how much a person's reimbursement counts as "compensation"? A percentage of their pay? How much they travel? What the other accommodations are? I'm not an employment lawyer, so I really do wonder.
Lol. No. It’s not easy. It’s very challenging, especially in small towns with two restaurants and no Yelp and no internet access because cell phones don’t work there and “what’s wifi?”. Yes. This happens to me regularly.
Guess what most small towns don’t have? Vegetarian options on their menu.
When I go to places like that, I plan at home before I leave. I call the restaurant if needed. It is rare to end up in some random place that I was not expecting to unless it was a major emergency. I also travel with shelf stable food I can eat just in case.
So everyone around the table gets their pasta paid for by the boss, but the diabetic secretary has to ask for a separate check, and then explain to the table of coworkers and superiors why she needed to eat a chicken caesar?
I am vegetarian and pre-diabetic. In your scenario, the secretary that is diabetic could get a salad with a side of roasted lower carb veggie. This is what I get when I go out on work dinners. It is generally very good, and not bummer. She doesn't need meat to have a good meal!
I would be starving ALL the time if this is all I could ever eat. Also if I don’t get enough protein I will have seizures. So no. Secretary cannot just order a salad with more veggies on it if she has specific medically required dietary needs.
How does someone who eats meat pre-plan their meals when traveling for business and going out to eat with others?
Jerky. A can of tuna. Check the menu at a restaurant you'll be going to. I don't know. What do people normally eat? Just bring that.
Again, people who DON'T eat meat do this ALL THE TIME. They eat before they go somewhere. They bring seasonings they can tolerate. They ask the chef to throw together a combination of a few sides on the menu for them.
Adults can handle their own diets, IMO.
If a vegan were to go on a week long business trip and went to a vegan friendly restaurant during down time to make sure they had food for the day, their food would still be reimbursed. Aside from paying for booze, which can be a liability issue, most companies don't try to police the type of food their employees choose to eat aside from spending limits. Adults can absolutely handle their own diets, but if you're sent away on a trip and have to pay OOP for all of your meals that feels an awful lot like a business dumping their business expenses on their employees.
Post by icedcoffee on Jul 17, 2018 15:05:50 GMT -5
Come on people. Yes, people with allergies and intolerances preplan their meals and bring snacks with them places BECAUSE THEY NEED TO! We should not be creating more policies that increase how often they need to do this. We should be doing the opposite and working towards creating environments where everyone can eat safely, nutritiously and good for the environment.
I am not flying half way across the country or world to go to a business meeting where I end up eating chips and salsa in my room because I couldn't order a healthy and satisfying meal and expense it like the rest of the employees.
Lol. No. It’s not easy. It’s very challenging, especially in small towns with two restaurants and no Yelp and no internet access because cell phones don’t work there and “what’s wifi?”. Yes. This happens to me regularly.
Guess what most small towns don’t have? Vegetarian options on their menu.
When I go to places like that, I plan at home before I leave. I call the restaurant if needed. It is rare to end up in some random place that I was not expecting to unless it was a major emergency. I also travel with shelf stable food I can eat just in case.
I'm just going to go ahead and say that you don't know what walterismydog's job is like and it would be, in my opinion, wholly unrealistic to expect her to do this simply because the company refuses to pay for her meals like they do for *every other employee*.
Since we have the Internet, it’s easy. Most restaurants have menus online and yelp reviews that discuss the food.
I just audibly snorted.
Why? I’ve been doing this for 20+ years. Every trip, I look for places I can eat at all along the route and the final destination before I leave. If they don’t have a website, menu or yelp review I call them and ask just as I did pre-Internet. It’s a pain but it isn’t what I could call difficult. If there is nothing I can eat in the destination, I bring food or drive to the nearest place that does.
I mean, if you were forced to go to a place by someone who refused to tell you where you were going that would be difficult but I’d say that scenario is extremely rare.
People can still eat meat though. They just don't get reimbursed for eating it nor can they buy it at company cafeterias. I don't see the big deal. Any employee with a meat restricted diet will still be able to adhere to their diet.
Except if they’re traveling for work or attending lunch meetings.
I also keep trying to put into non-whiny carnivore words that for humans, eating together is about more than nourishment. Sure, you can eat before you go to the restaurant, and then field a million questions about why you are not eating. Or people could order what they want. A more accommodating approach that doesn’t eliminate whole food groups will only make everyone more comfortable, medical needs, personal needs, religious needs.
And that food reimbursement at this company is a benefit that some may be denied for health or other reasons.
Why? I’ve been doing this for 20+ years. Every trip, I look for places I can eat at all along the route and the final destination before I leave. If they don’t have a website, menu or yelp review I call them and ask just as I did pre-Internet. It’s a pain but it isn’t what I could call difficult. If there is nothing I can eat in the destination, I bring food or drive to the nearest place that does.
I mean, if you were forced to go to a place by someone who refused to tell you where you were going that would be difficult but I’d say that scenario is extremely rare.
It wasn't a slight. I was laughing because it was such an obvious question and your response felt so earnest to me. I don't know if I'm explaining that well. It was just very "uh, you look on the internet like a normal person?" I agree with you.
Post by walterismydog on Jul 17, 2018 15:12:08 GMT -5
The point isn’t how you do things. I do try to plan. But it’s not always feasible. The point is that if they are not going to reimburse, they should not reimburse across the board. Not just select employees who adhere to their ridiculous policy.
Congratulations on being such a careful and cautious planner who never experiences a wrench in your well thought out plans.