Terrific for you. There aren’t a ton of shelf stable foods that I can eat.
Bringing industrial style coolers is another option I’ve had to take. Many keep food cold for even 3-4 days. It’s rough if you can’t cook but there is normally something one can eat cold.
Post by Michael Scott on Jul 17, 2018 15:13:14 GMT -5
If we take away expensing meals when out of town (because we've already determined that this has a limited impact) and strictly focus on what is being offered in their cafe and/or vending machines does it make it more palatable? I still see the benefit of someone with an extreme diet being able to supplement SOMETHING offered and would just need to bring in their own meat.
I'm really not concerned about clients. I doubt a company like this has many clients, and if they have decided their bottom line can handle a client being annoyed they can't get a free steak, then whatever.
I am concerned about the diabetic who is on a strict low carb diet that has to buy her own chicken caesar while everyone else gets their linguine pesto comped at the company holiday party. It's complete bullshit.
San Francisco "liberals" are notorious for waiving the banner of environmentalism to discriminate. This is not about environmentalism. This is to make it harder for overweight people, sick people, and pregnant people to work there. They want to make these people uncomfortable so they don't apply to work there, and are using the environment to do it.
I've been a vegetarian my entire life. I can't even count the number of times I've had no food at a company/professional event, because there was no vegetarian option. Or the only vegetarian option is french fries or something not exactly healthy. And yes, it is bullshit, but it's also at the company's discretion whether they're going to provide options for everyone.
Because of that, I see no problem with the company saying that they aren't going to buy meat for their employees. That's well within their rights. It definitely gets more complicated when it comes to reimbursing for food while traveling or when meeting with clients. In that situation, food isn't a "work perk," it's a necessity, and I don't think the company should be dictating what employees can eat in those situations.
100% okay with changes to the cafeteria. 0% okay with changes to the expense policy. And I’ve been a vegetarian for 24 years. I used to travel constantly for work and I have only ever gone to two restaurants in all that time that had literally zero vegetarian options (was with clients so I didn’t get to pick). Me packing a pack of energy bars for backup is was different than someone that needs meat to feel healthy trying to cobble together a week of meals on the road.
Terrific for you. There aren’t a ton of shelf stable foods that I can eat.
Bringing industrial style coolers is another option I’ve had to take. Many keep food cold for even 3-4 days. It’s rough if you can’t cook but there is normally something one can eat cold.
But she shouldn't have to do this because some random CEO decided she should eat less meat.
I don't know why I'm even responding. I don't even have any food restrictions. LOL
I think this is an area that companies shouldn't be dabbling in. Just leave it.
There are a million other ways they can drive good environmental stewardship that doesn't get into personal employee issues.
Is this from a legal perspective or a general perspective? Reduced animal product consumption is considered to be one of the gold standards of environmental stewardship, according to some (though somewhat controversial). Also, personal sacrifice is... a complicated discussion, but may have more of an impact that passive choices like installing solar panels, which employees may not be aware of.
Also, do you know if dietary restrictions are covered by the ADA? Would someone need an actual diagnosis of a medical issue that can be treated via diet, like diabetes?
It's bad from both a legal and from a work culture perspective to use the office to drive a reduced animal product consumption agenda. While reduced animal product consumption may be an ideal environmental step, they just need to accept that it's not an appropriate solution for the workplace. There may be smaller things they can do, like focus on catering from places that only use humane, locally raised meat, or go to Indian restaurants instead of steakhouses for parties. But food policing employees is not appropriate.
Dietary issues might be covered, but it probably depends on what the issue is. Epilepsy would be covered, so they'd have to accommodate that diet, but general, "legumes are really hard on my digestive system so I stick with chicken," probably is not. Medically proscribed diets for any issue would probably be covered, but a general, "I avoid soy because I have a family history of cancer and I know it's a trigger" probably would not. That said, there are also state laws that come into play, and I think CA's version of the ADA is broader than the feds. The other legal problems likely to arise go to reimbursement of expenses -- I'm not an expert in this area, but if someone is required to eat at a restaurant as part of their job, the company probably has to pay for that. If they are putting unreasonable restrictions on what they will reimburse, I think they could have some legal headaches.
That said, they probably make everyone sign arbitration agreements, so any complaints are going to get buried and decided by a company-backed arbitrator, so I suppose they don't have any real serious legal concerns.
Terrific for you. There aren’t a ton of shelf stable foods that I can eat.
Bringing industrial style coolers is another option I’ve had to take. Many keep food cold for even 3-4 days. It’s rough if you can’t cook but there is normally something one can eat cold.
Yeah. I do that. And my employer pays for my grocery shopping. AND it’s a huuuuge pain in the ass to deal with. If I worked for this employer, they wouldn’t cover the food I’m mrdically required to carry around in my fucking industrial cooler.
Oh and sometimes I just want to eat out and not out of a fucking industrial cooler.
When I go to places like that, I plan at home before I leave. I call the restaurant if needed. It is rare to end up in some random place that I was not expecting to unless it was a major emergency. I also travel with shelf stable food I can eat just in case.
I'm just going to go ahead and say that you don't know what walterismydog's job is like and it would be, in my opinion, wholly unrealistic to expect her to do this simply because the company refuses to pay for her meals like they do for *every other employee*.
I have no way of knowing what her job is but the issue she brought up was that in small towns she couldn’t look up menus and that there was little for her to eat not that they won’t pay for it.
If we take away expensing meals when out of town (because we've already determined that this has a limited impact) and strictly focus on what is being offered in their cafe and/or vending machines does it make it more palatable? I still see the benefit of someone with an extreme diet being able to supplement SOMETHING offered and would just need to bring in their own meat.
I'm with you here. And I appreciate your brave effort to find consensus during meat-gate 2018.
Lol. No. It’s not easy. It’s very challenging, especially in small towns with two restaurants and no Yelp and no internet access because cell phones don’t work there and “what’s wifi?”. Yes. This happens to me regularly.
Guess what most small towns don’t have? Vegetarian options on their menu.
When I go to places like that, I plan at home before I leave. I call the restaurant if needed. It is rare to end up in some random place that I was not expecting to unless it was a major emergency. I also travel with shelf stable food I can eat just in case.
You're clearly out of touch with what most business travelers deal with. When I'm traveling for business, my entire day is planned around my business visits. I don't have time to take a look at my route, figure out which eateries will suit my needs, make calls to various restaurants when I actually have time to myself in my car...driving to my next business appointment.
Eating food is actually a huge PITA when I travel. I look for chains I am familiar with because I am drained at the end of the day and know exactly what to expect and order. Fortunately I do most of my traveling in metropolitan areas. And I do bring snacks, because sometimes my day is so busy I only have time for a protein bar for lunch. But I DEFINITELY don't have time to figure out where the hell I'm going to eat on a given day. I just have to hope I pass a Subway at some point in some of the more remote areas.
So everyone around the table gets their pasta paid for by the boss, but the diabetic secretary has to ask for a separate check, and then explain to the table of coworkers and superiors why she needed to eat a chicken caesar?
I am vegetarian and pre-diabetic. In your scenario, the secretary that is diabetic could get a salad with a side of roasted lower carb veggie. This is what I get when I go out on work dinners. It is generally very good, and not bummer. She doesn't need meat to have a good meal!
OMG this is brilliant. I'm sure that every person with every dietary need and every kind of psychological issues connected with food, weight, and eating will be just fine and will never feel ostracized, triggered, stressed, excluded, like her privacy is invaded, or like she doesn't have enough protein to get through the day as long as she can just make a special request to have a bowl of lettuce topped with roasted cauliflower for a lunch.
Terrific for you. There aren’t a ton of shelf stable foods that I can eat.
Bringing industrial style coolers is another option I’ve had to take. Many keep food cold for even 3-4 days. It’s rough if you can’t cook but there is normally something one can eat cold.
OMG.
Boss: "Pants, why are there 2 suitcases on your expense report?"
Me: "Because I had to check an industrial-sized cooler to bring to east Washington for all my hard-boiled eggs and string cheese."
I'm just going to go ahead and say that you don't know what walterismydog 's job is like and it would be, in my opinion, wholly unrealistic to expect her to do this simply because the company refuses to pay for her meals like they do for *every other employee*.
I have no way of knowing what her job is but the issue she brought up was that in small towns she couldn’t look up menus and that there was little for her to eat not that they won’t pay for it.
Yes, but I was referring to the article in the OP. It would be wholly unrealistic to expect her to spend a ton of personal time planning out her meals when she doesn't need to. She obviously gets along just fine. The point is that she would not get along just fine if her company banned her from eating meat (unless it was on her own dime). It would take a ton of planning and research, which she shouldn't be forced to do.
I recognize that some people have to do this kind of research because of their conditions and dietary needs, but it's not fair to force someone to do it because of food restrictions put on them because of their job.
All the people saying it is not a big deal to travel and bring your own food (LOL) have clearly never traveled for work.
I’m not saying it isn’t a big deal, I’m saying it is/should manageable. I’ve been been this situation for decades and have had to come up with solutions. No company is going to research where I can eat for me.
They also shouldn’t make it harder for employees to eat either. I thought the trend was going towards being more inclusive to dietary needs but apparently this company didn’t get the memo.
Why? I’ve been doing this for 20+ years. Every trip, I look for places I can eat at all along the route and the final destination before I leave. If they don’t have a website, menu or yelp review I call them and ask just as I did pre-Internet. It’s a pain but it isn’t what I could call difficult. If there is nothing I can eat in the destination, I bring food or drive to the nearest place that does.
I mean, if you were forced to go to a place by someone who refused to tell you where you were going that would be difficult but I’d say that scenario is extremely rare.
It wasn't a slight. I was laughing because it was such an obvious question and your response felt so earnest to me. I don't know if I'm explaining that well. It was just very "uh, you look on the internet like a normal person?" I agree with you.
You’d be surprised at how many people don’t think of this. See my gluten-free vegan SIL and her girlfriend who are always starving wherever they go lol.
I see the arguments against it, but with the amount of food waste generated by big events, I can see the appeal of at least cutting out the meat part. You’re throwing away a lot in either case, but at least there’s less impact if you’re throwing away something more sustainable?
Apparently you have never worked in an office where the ravenous hoards descend upon seeing the phrase "free food in the break room" in an email. Because yeah, that is the way to keep from throwing food away.
Bringing industrial style coolers is another option I’ve had to take. Many keep food cold for even 3-4 days. It’s rough if you can’t cook but there is normally something one can eat cold.
But she shouldn't have to do this because some random CEO decided she should eat less meat.
I don't know why I'm even responding. I don't even have any food restrictions. LOL
I agree! It sucks. Unfortunately employers don’t really care what you eat or if you can most of the time. It makes travel and work tedious. Moving towards restricting options seems like a bizarre choice to me personally.
Terrific for you. There aren’t a ton of shelf stable foods that I can eat.
Bringing industrial style coolers is another option I’ve had to take. Many keep food cold for even 3-4 days. It’s rough if you can’t cook but there is normally something one can eat cold.
Does this count as your carry-on or your personal item? Or one that you have to pay to get checked?
If we take away expensing meals when out of town (because we've already determined that this has a limited impact) and strictly focus on what is being offered in their cafe and/or vending machines does it make it more palatable? I still see the benefit of someone with an extreme diet being able to supplement SOMETHING offered and would just need to bring in their own meat.
I'm with you here. And I appreciate your brave effort to find consensus during meat-gate 2018.
I wonder if I keep posting it if someone will answer. I know the traveling wars are appealing...
Bringing industrial style coolers is another option I’ve had to take. Many keep food cold for even 3-4 days. It’s rough if you can’t cook but there is normally something one can eat cold.
Does this count as your carry-on or your personal item? Or one that you have to pay to get checked?
I always bring an emotional support cheese on airplanes. They can't count it as a carry on because I need it for my food anxiety.
But she shouldn't have to do this because some random CEO decided she should eat less meat.
I don't know why I'm even responding. I don't even have any food restrictions. LOL
I agree! It sucks. Unfortunately employers don’t really care what you eat or if you can most of the time. It makes travel and work tedious. Moving towards restricting options seems like a bizarre choice to me personally.
I would argue that it's not just a bizarre choice, but a discriminatory practice. They are discriminating against people with diagnosed medical conditions.
Re: our side conversation about looking for restaurants on the internet- I think that's a reasonable option if you have such a restrictive diet that you really have to do that. and it feels like an obvious answer to me. But it's not reasonable to make people do that because their employer has chosen to reimburse for some foods and not others.
Bringing industrial style coolers is another option I’ve had to take. Many keep food cold for even 3-4 days. It’s rough if you can’t cook but there is normally something one can eat cold.
Yeah. I do that. And my employer pays for my grocery shopping. AND it’s a huuuuge pain in the ass to deal with. If I worked for this employer, they wouldn’t cover the food I’m mrdically required to carry around in my fucking industrial cooler.
Oh and sometimes I just want to eat out and not out of a fucking industrial cooler.
You’re a piece of work.
Yes, it is. I don’t want to do that either. Nor do I want to have a disease that forces me to but I have to deal with it or lead a very small, restricted life. I don’t wish this sort of life on anyone.
I’d be very upset if my company changed their policy to make things more difficult for me. I don’t think they thought this through in their attempt to grab attention for being eco friendly.
I am vegetarian and pre-diabetic. In your scenario, the secretary that is diabetic could get a salad with a side of roasted lower carb veggie. This is what I get when I go out on work dinners. It is generally very good, and not bummer. She doesn't need meat to have a good meal!
I would be starving ALL the time if this is all I could ever eat. Also if I don’t get enough protein I will have seizures. So no. Secretary cannot just order a salad with more veggies on it if she has specific medically required dietary needs.
The company says they will make accommodations for medical dietary requirements. We are all special snowflakes (myself included), I know, but this program should work for 95% + of people. If they don't make accommodations, then that isn't right, but this program should work for most.
My company doesn't accommodate dietary restrictions in office catering. There is a meat choice and a vegetarian choice, that's it. You need low carb, gluten free, or nut free you have to bring your own food. If there is an out of office work meal and the place selected doesn't serve something you can eat, you have to deal. I've never heard of someone suing or leaving the company. Some people do complain (like myself), but it works for 99% of the people in my office.
If we take away expensing meals when out of town (because we've already determined that this has a limited impact) and strictly focus on what is being offered in their cafe and/or vending machines does it make it more palatable? I still see the benefit of someone with an extreme diet being able to supplement SOMETHING offered and would just need to bring in their own meat.
I lean toward yes, with one big caveat: are the cafeteria meals free? Are catered lunches now fully vegetarian? Just as I expect my company to bring in special meals for the people in our office who are vegetarian, I would also expect them to bring in meals for those who have a nutritional requirement for meat. I'm thinking about people who travel to that office and are staying in a hotel. Are they expected to pay for a meat meal while their coworkers enjoy a free cafeteria or catered vegetarian meal?
I think I've decided that none of this is reasonable and the company should focus on sustainable meat options if they want to make an impact in this way. So never mind about 'leaning toward yes.'
Umm I get that it SUCKS for vegetarians in a lot of work eating scenarios. But I don’t think the answer is to make it suck for other people instead. I am all for a company offering more options for vegetarians.
Also I agree with ESF on what this is really about since the original policy stated that employees could not bring meat into the office at all. This is there revised policy after employees complained about that.
Personally I think the is kind of dumb. However one of the co-founders had this to say about special accommodations:
The startup's summer retreat won't have meat options for attendees, co-founder Miguel McKelvey said in an email to workers detailing the policy.
"In just the three days we are together, we estimate that we can save more than 10,000 animals. The team has worked hard to create a sustainable, plentiful, and delicious menu. If you require a medical or religious accommodation, please contact our global policy team," McKelvey said in the memo, emailed to CBS MoneyWatch.
I feel like I'm the walking epitome of "special diet": diabetic since I was 19, celiac disease, don't eat pork, shellfish, or dairy. I have no problem finding food. I doubt I would have problems with this policy, but if I did, the company says it would be open to accommodating those needs.