@ business and sexual offender question

[downtoearth]

So a trampoline kids place just opened in our town. They have some BS on their website about expecting parents to participate with kids and not just sit on their phones, so a friend started looking at reviews for a place one town over owned by same woman.

Turns out the yelp reviews have some reviewers posting links to articles that show that her current husband (in FB pictures and are very much together) is a convicted sex offender and rapist out on parole. Lots of articles about how he sexually violated and raped coworkers/subordinates at his chiropractor office. Convicted to 20 yrs - 15 suspended, but only served about 1. Cant work at family business “during business hours” and can’t ever supervise an adult woman again.

So would you spread this around or just be the asshole parent who refuses birthday parties and fun nights at trampoline park? Next nearest one is the one also owned by the spouse and is 90 min away, so there are bound to be parties that your kids will go to and are begging to go try out joe. Or should I just not care since the guy has done his time - I just think I don’t want to support that family. Between his record and the judgy website that says to play with your kids while they are on a trampoline park, and I am having a hard time not judging her for staying since he was accused in another state almost 20 years ago and had to move states to get a license and now has a rape and assault conviction.

Am I wrong to judge and not forgive these people I have never met?

[VillainV]

No, I would not go, and I would tell every adult who asked about it exactly why I refuse to support their business.

Also? H and I both have injuries that prevent us from jumping on trampolines. I would like to think the children of injured and disabled parents would be welcome at a trampoline place. I would definitely not be okay being judged for not jumping with our kid (our injuries are not always visibly obvious).

[brooklyn]

I would not go, and I don’t think trampoline places are safe in general.

[cville]

1. I would tell everyone why I'm not patronizing that establishment. Politely, but that's info I'd like to have.

2. A place that expects women who have given birth also to be able to, without exception, jump on a trampoline without pissing themselves deserves to die regardless. Leaving aside other physical issues. GFY

[krystee]

Unrelated, but one of the biggest signs of our misogynistic society is a one-year sentence served for rape. Disgusting.

Anyway. Do any of the photos show him at the facility? If so, I’d report it to police immediately. If he is never there, I would not support the business with my own money, but I’d probably let my kid attend a party and supervise closely. If a parent asked me what I thought about the venue as a potential party place, I would tell them what I knew.

The phone wording is a separate issue and not that big of a deal to me. Trampoline places are notorious for injuries in young kids so close supervision probably is important. They shouldn’t be judgy about it, but that has nothing to do with the other issue IMO, and wouldn’t impact my decision to go there except maybe to mke an elaborate show of texting in front of the owner in hopes of irritating her.

ETA: oh, it’s forced participation, not supervision? Hard pass

[downtoearth]

Judgmental comment on the website aside, I had a friend (former DA) on FB (who has way less details) post this and it’s making me think more about trying to not be judgmental, “I don’t know the circumstances of this guy, but odds are that the owner’s husband was a victim of a sex offense when he was young. It’s complicated. I’ve worked with plenty of sex offenders. I wouldn’t hire them to babysit or work in my home, but I’d support most of them in their efforts to be successful in the community.”

And no, I don’t expect to see the H at the facility - I’m guessing he doesn’t want to go back to jail and his offenses were not kid related.

[kath16]

I’m a stick in the mud regarding trampolines and trampoline parks, so this would be just another reason to me.

Probably but helpful, sorry

[downtoearth]

Jan 2, 2019 21:45:45 GMT -5 krystee said:

Unrelated, but one of the biggest signs of our misogynistic society is a one-year sentence served for rape. Disgusting.

This I was surprised at, too. I wonder if it’s more common since he has a lot of parole conditions as a certain tier sex offender. I really don’t know typical sentences.

[wildrice]

Jan 2, 2019 22:01:59 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Judgmental comment on the website aside, I had a friend (former DA) on FB (who has way less details) post this and it’s making me think more about trying to not be judgmental, “I don’t know the circumstances of this guy, but odds are that the owner’s husband was a victim of a sex offense when he was young. It’s complicated. I’ve worked with plenty of sex offenders. I wouldn’t hire them to babysit or work in my home, but I’d support most of them in their efforts to be successful in the community.”

And no, I don’t expect to see the H at the facility - I’m guessing he doesn’t want to go back to jail and his offenses were not kid related.

Ugh I have such mixed feelings about this, because while I agree it's complicated, I also think in some ways it's another form of giving toxic male behavior a pass... after all he's an adult and could have sought help instead of inflicting his damage on someone else.

I also am always conflicted between wanting to believe in redemption and second chances and wanting to steer clear of people who commit these sorts of offenses.

So, I don't know. I probably would not purposefully go there but I'd have a hard time making my (hypothetical) kid miss out on a fun time with friends if someone else was having a party there. Assuming he really does stay away from the facility of course.

[WOT?*]

Jan 2, 2019 22:04:44 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Jan 2, 2019 21:45:45 GMT -5 krystee said:

Unrelated, but one of the biggest signs of our misogynistic society is a one-year sentence served for rape. Disgusting.

This I was surprised at, too. I wonder if it’s more common since he has a lot of parole conditions as a certain tier sex offender. I really don’t know typical sentences.

Not just once and not as a kid. "Coworkers and subordinates at his chiropractors" - plural - (I'm assuming he was the chiro or other position of authority, not some teen intern) is different from "I was 18 and dating a 16 year old." Sounds more Harvey Weinstein than My Neighbor's Kid (although Brock Turner was somebody's neighbor's kid once upon a time too, wasn't he?) JMHO.

[mouse]

Jan 2, 2019 22:10:34 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Jan 2, 2019 22:01:59 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Judgmental comment on the website aside, I had a friend (former DA) on FB (who has way less details) post this and it’s making me think more about trying to not be judgmental, “I don’t know the circumstances of this guy, but odds are that the owner’s husband was a victim of a sex offense when he was young. It’s complicated. I’ve worked with plenty of sex offenders. I wouldn’t hire them to babysit or work in my home, but I’d support most of them in their efforts to be successful in the community.”

And no, I don’t expect to see the H at the facility - I’m guessing he doesn’t want to go back to jail and his offenses were not kid related.

Ugh I have such mixed feelings about this, because while I agree it's complicated, I also think in some ways it's another form of giving toxic male behavior a pass... after all he's an adult and could have sought help instead of inflicting his damage on someone else.

I also am always conflicted between wanting to believe in redemption and second chances and wanting to steer clear of people who commit these sorts of offenses.

So, I don't know. I probably would not purposefully go there but I'd have a hard time making my (hypothetical) kid miss out on a fun time with friends if someone else was having a party there. Assuming he really does stay away from the facility of course.

I'm here. How do we expect someone to re-enter society (which is good for recividism rates if nothing else) if they're not only shunned from participating (within certain bounds) but their family is too? It doesn't sound like anyone at the trampoline place is in danger from him. Also, I kind of feel like although we should certainly be wary of registered sex offenders, we should also be aware that there's probably plenty we don't know about because they weren't unlucky enough to be caught or convicted, so it's not like being careful of just those guys is somehow making us safe.

That said, a year for rape is bullshit. And I'm tired of actively propping up the patriarchy. So I guess I wouldn't spend my money there, and I'd give my opinion when it comes up, but I don't know that I'd feel right essentially calling for a boycott.

Man, this world is bullshit.

[starlily]

We have a similar situation with a playplace in our area. The owner's son is a registered sex offender for child molestation. It's a generally well known fact among local residents, mentioned on Yelp and NextDoor. People have contacted the probation department; thus far though he's never been caught in a technical violation of his terms and conditions despite some people saying they've seen him in the shopping plaza.

I've never entertained the idea of hosting a party there or going to open play. DD1 was invited to one birthday party there, and we let her go, but needless to say we kept constant eyes on the kids.

[cville]

Jan 2, 2019 22:10:34 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Jan 2, 2019 22:01:59 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Judgmental comment on the website aside, I had a friend (former DA) on FB (who has way less details) post this and it’s making me think more about trying to not be judgmental, “I don’t know the circumstances of this guy, but odds are that the owner’s husband was a victim of a sex offense when he was young. It’s complicated. I’ve worked with plenty of sex offenders. I wouldn’t hire them to babysit or work in my home, but I’d support most of them in their efforts to be successful in the community.”

And no, I don’t expect to see the H at the facility - I’m guessing he doesn’t want to go back to jail and his offenses were not kid related.

Ugh I have such mixed feelings about this, because while I agree it's complicated, I also think in some ways it's another form of giving toxic male behavior a pass... after all he's an adult and could have sought help instead of inflicting his damage on someone else.

I also am always conflicted between wanting to believe in redemption and second chances and wanting to steer clear of people who commit these sorts of offenses.

So, I don't know. I probably would not purposefully go there but I'd have a hard time making my (hypothetical) kid miss out on a fun time with friends if someone else was having a party there. Assuming he really does stay away from the facility of course.

This is where I have to be honest about my bias. I don't think you can be rehabilitated from multiple rapes. I cannot imagine ever thinking so, especially someone who served only 1 year. I am so biased in this regard, it did not even occur to me that perhaps he's innocent. But the description above made me think immediately of Larry Nasser. Who I believe to be guilty. So, there's that.

[Michelle]

I would ask the business owner what steps she takes to protect the public from her husband. Her answer would impact how much of an effort I would make to tell everyone I know in person and on social media about the man.

That said my kid wouldn’t be at the place without me there.

[DesertMoon]

I'd spread it far and wide. My family from The old country would know about this trampoline spot.

But maybe that's just me.

[VillainV]

Jan 2, 2019 22:34:16 GMT -5 mouse said:

Jan 2, 2019 22:10:34 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Ugh I have such mixed feelings about this, because while I agree it's complicated, I also think in some ways it's another form of giving toxic male behavior a pass... after all he's an adult and could have sought help instead of inflicting his damage on someone else.

I also am always conflicted between wanting to believe in redemption and second chances and wanting to steer clear of people who commit these sorts of offenses.

So, I don't know. I probably would not purposefully go there but I'd have a hard time making my (hypothetical) kid miss out on a fun time with friends if someone else was having a party there. Assuming he really does stay away from the facility of course.

I'm here. How do we expect someone to re-enter society (which is good for recividism rates if nothing else) if they're not only shunned from participating (within certain bounds) but their family is too? It doesn't sound like anyone at the trampoline place is in danger from him. Also, I kind of feel like although we should certainly be wary of registered sex offenders, we should also be aware that there's probably plenty we don't know about because they weren't unlucky enough to be caught or convicted, so it's not like being careful of just those guys is somehow making us safe.

That said, a year for rape is bullshit. And I'm tired of actively propping up the patriarchy. So I guess I wouldn't spend my money there, and I'd give my opinion when it comes up, but I don't know that I'd feel right essentially calling for a boycott.

Man, this world is bullshit.

For me it’s not so much about safety, it more about supporting the business of the wife who thinks it’s okay to essentially give her husband a pass on multiple rapes/assaults/harassments.

I realize there may be more to this situation that I don’t know about, and that I’m making a lot of assumptions about the situation — but on the face of it, I wouldn’t support a business owned by Brock Turner’s family either.

[bowies]

1. We don’t go to these places because of the huge liabilities so the type of business it is is already a non-starter for us. DS’s classmate completely shattered his leg at a trampoline park, just bouncing. If anyone asked why we weren’t going to a party there I would probably start with the injury risk.

2. The wording on her website is how she’s letting people know that there is a substantial liability that she is passing on to the parent/guardian. I almost appreciate it. It’s a terrible approach but at least she’s being upfront that this isn’t a place you can just let your kid play. I’ll be happy when this fad is over and these places go bust.

3. I’m also conflicted on the idea of redemption/rehabilitation into the community. It’s something we all say we want but aren’t willing to actually support. The conflict here comes from the type of business they chose (though I’m not terribly surprised by it).

4. He only served 1 year? Ugh, fuck that.

ETA: Even if this was a normal play place I wouldn’t want to patronize the business and would decline invitations.

[msmerymac]

Jan 2, 2019 21:25:50 GMT -5 VillainV said:

No, I would not go, and I would tell every adult who asked about it exactly why I refuse to support their business.

Also? H and I both have injuries that prevent us from jumping on trampolines. I would like to think the children of injured and disabled parents would be welcome at a trampoline place. I would definitely not be okay being judged for not jumping with our kid (our injuries are not always visibly obvious).

I wouldn't go, I'm undecided on whether or not I'd tell people about it, but YES on your second point. I have a herniated disc in my lower back. It impacts some nerves in my right calf and foot. Most of the time I'm fine, except for the numbness, which I've had for 4 years now. I can walk - even long distances. I've switched from very slow 5k running to cycling. I can do yoga, pilates, etc. Basically, I can be a pretty physically active person. I am NOT supposed to lift heavy weights above my head or do high-impact exercise. I shudder every time I even think about a trampoline because OMFG that would be terrible for my back.

[raangoli]

I wouldn't go for say a play date or just something fun to do for my kid - but if there was a birthday party, then I'd probably let her go. It's twofold for me: the safety aspect and then the sex offender husband, and I would not be shy about sharing my reasons.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I hate trampoline parks so I would shout it from the rooftops.

[calamity]

We don't do trampoline parks, my DD severely sprained her ankle and still has problems with it years later.

Otherwise, a year is disgusting and I would not support that business.

[anonymous]

I would not go and I would tell
People why. I stopped getting my nails done at a place because the owner, who I’ve never seen there, was convicted of sexual assault. I don’t choose to spend my money there.

[debatethis]

Jan 3, 2019 7:20:28 GMT -5 bowies said:

1. We don’t go to these places because of the huge liabilities so the type of business it is is already a non-starter for us. DS’s classmate completely shattered his leg at a trampoline park, just bouncing. If anyone asked why we weren’t going to a party there I would probably start with the injury risk.

2. The wording on her website is how she’s letting people know that there is a substantial liability that she is passing on to the parent/guardian. I almost appreciate it. It’s a terrible approach but at least she’s being upfront that this isn’t a place you can just let your kid play. I’ll be happy when this fad is over and these places go bust.

3. I’m also conflicted on the idea of redemption/rehabilitation into the community. It’s something we all say we want but aren’t willing to actually support. The conflict here comes from the type of business they chose (though I’m not terribly surprised by it).

4. He only served 1 year? Ugh, fuck that.

ETA: Even if this was a normal play place I wouldn’t want to patronize the business and would decline invitations.

This is paraphrasing another person so grain of salt and all that, but last summer I had to take the "Protecting God's Children" course through the RCC in order to volunteer in DS's class. One of the people in my class was a woman who's been a parole/probation (not sure of the correct term) officer in our county, specifically with sex offenders, for 30 years. She flat out said that there is no redemption with sexual predators, only mitigation and constant monitoring. She was very adamant that every single one will re-offend given the opportunity - I was pretty taken aback at her forcefulness. *And just to clarify she was NOT talking about the cases which would fall under Romeo & Juliet laws. 

But then there's this, and the actual data shows a recidivism rate of less than 5% overall: qz.com/869499/new-evidence-says-us-sex-offender-policies-dont-work-and-are-are-actually-causing-more-crime/


So really I'm just as conflicted as you. I appreciate that he has re-entered society and has gainful employment, has remained married (or possibly remarried) and isn't homeless. But the fact that he's yet again in a small business/employer/leadership role, and with children no less? Warning bells are going off in my head. Is there any further info on the state or county sex offender registry?

[picksthemusic]

Yeah, my kids aren't going to a trampoline place if I have any say in the matter. That's an ER visit waiting to happen.

[bowies]

Jan 3, 2019 14:59:00 GMT -5 debatethis said:

Jan 3, 2019 7:20:28 GMT -5 bowies said:

1. We don’t go to these places because of the huge liabilities so the type of business it is is already a non-starter for us. DS’s classmate completely shattered his leg at a trampoline park, just bouncing. If anyone asked why we weren’t going to a party there I would probably start with the injury risk.

2. The wording on her website is how she’s letting people know that there is a substantial liability that she is passing on to the parent/guardian. I almost appreciate it. It’s a terrible approach but at least she’s being upfront that this isn’t a place you can just let your kid play. I’ll be happy when this fad is over and these places go bust.

3. I’m also conflicted on the idea of redemption/rehabilitation into the community. It’s something we all say we want but aren’t willing to actually support. The conflict here comes from the type of business they chose (though I’m not terribly surprised by it).

4. He only served 1 year? Ugh, fuck that.

ETA: Even if this was a normal play place I wouldn’t want to patronize the business and would decline invitations.

This is paraphrasing another person so grain of salt and all that, but last summer I had to take the "Protecting God's Children" course through the RCC in order to volunteer in DS's class. One of the people in my class was a woman who's been a parole/probation (not sure of the correct term) officer in our county, specifically with sex offenders, for 30 years. She flat out said that there is no redemption with sexual predators, only mitigation and constant monitoring. She was very adamant that every single one will re-offend given the opportunity - I was pretty taken aback at her forcefulness. *And just to clarify she was NOT talking about the cases which would fall under Romeo & Juliet laws. 

But then there's this, and the actual data shows a recidivism rate of less than 5% overall: qz.com/869499/new-evidence-says-us-sex-offender-policies-dont-work-and-are-are-actually-causing-more-crime/


So really I'm just as conflicted as you. I appreciate that he has re-entered society and has gainful employment, has remained married (or possibly remarried) and isn't homeless. But the fact that he's yet again in a small business/employer/leadership role, and with children no less? Warning bells are going off in my head. Is there any further info on the state or county sex offender registry?

I remember hearing the same when I took Abnormal Psychology but can’t remember the context (if it’s conditional on certain factors).

Best case scenario, these are people without a lick of common sense. These indoor play places are all the rage in the entrepreneur world right now so it really could just be that. Still not a place I’d want to go.

[jezebel]

In other news, I had no idea that so many people were anti-trampoline park. We’re going to one tomorrow.

[VillainV]

Jan 3, 2019 21:28:20 GMT -5 jezebel said:

In other news, I had no idea that so many people were anti-trampoline park. We’re going to one tomorrow.

My sister is an ER doc and sees tons of injuries from them. We have taken C before (when I was able to jump with him), and went right when they opened on weekends before it got crowded, staying well away from big kids. This mitigated the risk enough for me to feel very comfortable. But I can easily see how older kids who are less risk averse could be at a much bigger risk for injury.

[bowies]

Jan 3, 2019 21:45:00 GMT -5 VillainV said:

Jan 3, 2019 21:28:20 GMT -5 jezebel said:

In other news, I had no idea that so many people were anti-trampoline park. We’re going to one tomorrow.

My sister is an ER doc and sees tons of injuries from them. We have taken C before (when I was able to jump with him), and went right when they opened on weekends before it got crowded, staying well away from big kids. This mitigated the risk enough for me to feel very comfortable. But I can easily see how older kids who are less risk averse could be at a much bigger risk for injury.

Younger kids are also at risk just from the force on their bones. DS’s classmate broke his entire leg just from jumping high - didn’t hit another kid, didn’t come down on the edge, didn’t fall. His mom got quite an education from the ER doctors. It’s the same reasons why homeowner’s insurance bans trampolines from coverage.

[sent]

I've got a teen in treatment with me who knocked his front tooth out at a trampoline place. Nope, not going to take my kids there.

[lilac05]

Playing at the trampoline with my 2 year old is how I earned myself a torn ACL, a brand new one via surgery, and continued knee pain years later. I should have been playing on my cell phone!

My kids have been allowed to go to one party since. And ONLY because the little boy’s mom (my friend) passed away this summer and his dad totally missed planning a birthday party. The little boy went around telling everyone the day before that he was having a party at the trampoline park the next day. So, I took the risk for him because my boys were the only ones who the dad felt he could ask last second. I went shopping and made my H take them. At one point, one got hit in the face with a ball and the other twisted his ankle. We won’t be back...(and next year, I’ll make sure he plans a party ahead of time!)

I tell anyone who will listen about my experience at the park (I was barely bouncing, but landed *just* wrong and POP!)...but if I knew this, I’d probably say that I had read news about him and highly recommended people do their research so they can decide for themselves.