I think Sansa will eventually have a family. Despite how the show has portrayed her at times I do really think all she really ever wanted was to be back at Winterfell, safe and with her family. I think it’s fitting she eventually became a queen on her own merits without marrying someone with a claim, and now she’s in power not just a claim someone can marry for Winterfell. She will decide when and if she marries and/or has children.
She basically started from a position where she’d be the oldest daughter leaving to make a good marriage and never come home to being controlled/married off for her claim to Winterfell to being a queen in her own right who could choose how she wants her life to look in the future while ruling from Winterfell.
Truly her arc has somehow managed to make the most sense despite the insert of the season 5 Bolton storyline. So good work there, GOT.
the night's watch thing- was it all a ruse to fool Greyworm? They were all "there will always be criminals and misfits we have to send somewhere" (hi, how about life in prison? Like build a prison?) and it was unclear to me if Jon was just being sent to the Night's Watch or if he was being sent to be the new Lord Commander of it....if he wasn't, who was?
and I also assume the Dothraki went home because all the women and children Dothraki were still there.
I think it was partially a ruse to fool Greyworm and those who maybe would have rallied behind him knowing his lineage? Wink wink, nudge nudge, you'll live out your days without any titles, a wife, or lands "on the wall" (with your friend, your wolf, and the remaining free folk who owe you their lives).
There was a blood stain in the ash/on the floor in the throne room. Between that, the blood on his hands, and Jon being raised by Ned Stark - you KNOW he confessed.
I don’t think the nights watch really exists anymore. It will basically be a way station/trading post if anyone’s heading north or the free folk need something.
I don’t think the nights watch really exists anymore. It will basically be a way station/trading post if anyone’s heading north or the free folk need something.
Exactly - it's pretty much gone. This is what I had posted last night:
I thought it was actually pretty clever - almost all of the Night's Watch was pretty much killed off or vacated with The Night King coming through and this gave the wildlings /free folk a chance to come back to their homelands without their big bad being a problem. I'm sure Bran knew exactly what he was sending him off to do - to go live as Mance Rayder did, among the wildlings, essentially free (or as a ranger, like he wanted to originally with Benjen).
There also was a green sprout coming through the snow as they were exiting the wall - it looks like winter may have come and gone.
Post by karinothing on May 20, 2019 9:20:34 GMT -5
I think it is odd that so much of the books/show (IMO) focused on the starks being ripped apart and trying to get back together. Then in the end they wound up alone
I think it is odd that so much of the books/show (IMO) focused on the starks being ripped apart and trying to get back together. Then in the end they wound up alone
That’s the tragedy of it all. They fought so hard to get back and be safe and boom they are scattered again but at least safe and with some agency?
Idk. I never expected a happy ending. I did expect a better path to said ending though. Lol.
I think it is odd that so much of the books/show (IMO) focused on the starks being ripped apart and trying to get back together. Then in the end they wound up alone
That’s the tragedy of it all. They fought so hard to get back and be safe and boom they are scattered again but at least safe and with some agency?
Idk. I never expected a happy ending. I did expect a better path to said ending though. Lol.
I wouldn’t say it’s a tragedy. They are all choosing where they’re going. None of it is being forced on them.
Unless you mean a tragedy for the audience, then I agree with you. We were made to root for them all to finally be together. Arya fighting to be back with her family and then she’s just like “Ok, I’m going off to this place that no one has ever returned from. See ya in the afterlife.”
Post by jeaniebueller on May 20, 2019 9:54:59 GMT -5
I was assuming that the night's watch will be a place where they send prisoners and outcasts. Not sure what they will do, but maintain order from the wildlings? IDK.
I was kind of hoping for a flash forward 50 years or something like that, TBH.
Or even as they traveled north, a little white walker looming.
That’s the tragedy of it all. They fought so hard to get back and be safe and boom they are scattered again but at least safe and with some agency?
Idk. I never expected a happy ending. I did expect a better path to said ending though. Lol.
I wouldn’t say it’s a tragedy. They are all choosing where they’re going. None of it is being forced on them.
Unless you mean a tragedy for the audience, then I agree with you. We were made to root for them all to finally be together. Arya fighting to be back with her family and then she’s just like “Ok, I’m going off to this place that no one has ever returned from. See ya in the afterlife.”
I think it’s bittersweet and tragic for them. They learned you can’t go back, you can’t get what you had back and you have to forge a new path. It’s not the worst ending but it’s realistic yet still tragic to me.
I guess I’m mostly pissed at the 3,473 plot holes and missing plot points. Where did a whole new group of Dothraki come from? What was the point of an entire storyline of Arya being faceless? What was the point of building up to a battle with the undead for it to last 30 min and not even be the main point of the season storyline? Why was there so much emphasis on the prophecy of Arya killing a green eyed person? Why did we spend 7 seasons of Jaime redeeming himself to become a jackass at the end? If Jaime and Cersei moved the left 2 ft they would have survived? Why did the guy who was a side character who did absolutely nothing but sit there and be creepy the entire show become king? Are we supposed to believe that the other kingdoms would just be like “oh yeah that’s fine about Sansa, but we will just fall in line under another Stark after just fighting to the death for the throne, nbd”
Etc.
And why are they letting Tyrion have any say in who rules Westeros and making him hand? He was an awful, awful hand. I spent that whole scene wondering why they were listening to him at all. Also was baffled at him using his death sentence as a reason to question Dany’s sanity. You were a traitor. You let your brother escape so that he could escape with your sister. And Jon had executed traitors including a 12 year old so why would he be moved by that?
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
Post by thelurkylulu on May 20, 2019 10:15:05 GMT -5
I liked it. Jon would have been a terrible king so I’m happy he didn’t end up on the iron throne. I was actually surprised he stepped up and killed Dany and agree he only did it to protect his sisters. I do think Sansa would marry and have children because she was really concerned with Bran not being able to have kids. Lol
There were way too many characters and the writers were never going to be able to wrap up things for everyone.
I guess I’m mostly pissed at the 3,473 plot holes and missing plot points. Where did a whole new group of Dothraki come from? What was the point of an entire storyline of Arya being faceless? What was the point of building up to a battle with the undead for it to last 30 min and not even be the main point of the season storyline? Why was there so much emphasis on the prophecy of Arya killing a green eyed person? Why did we spend 7 seasons of Jaime redeeming himself to become a jackass at the end? If Jaime and Cersei moved the left 2 ft they would have survived? Why did the guy who was a side character who did absolutely nothing but sit there and be creepy the entire show become king? Are we supposed to believe that the other kingdoms would just be like “oh yeah that’s fine about Sansa, but we will just fall in line under another Stark after just fighting to the death for the throne, nbd”
Etc.
I think that in the books, Littlefinger's eyes are green-ish. Like gray-green, maybe? I've seen some theories that he was actually the third piece of the eyes puzzle.
Which I think is nice symbolism. Arya kills the Freys for revenge, kills Littlefinger as his executioner, and kills the NK as a hero. Between the three of them, they show all of the things she is willing/able to do. And in the end, she also shows herself capable of turning away from death (in the case of trying to kill Cersei) and attempting to save lives instead of take them.
But...he didn’t have green eyes on the show. REJECTED 😂
I don’t think the nights watch really exists anymore. It will basically be a way station/trading post if anyone’s heading north or the free folk need something.
Exactly - it's pretty much gone. This is what I had posted last night:
I thought it was actually pretty clever - almost all of the Night's Watch was pretty much killed off or vacated with The Night King coming through and this gave the wildlings /free folk a chance to come back to their homelands without their big bad being a problem. I'm sure Bran knew exactly what he was sending him off to do - to go live as Mance Rayder did, among the wildlings, essentially free (or as a ranger, like he wanted to originally with Benjen).
There also was a green sprout coming through the snow as they were exiting the wall - it looks like winter may have come and gone.
I think this is true, but they didn't quite portray it right IMO. Why have Jon be so glum the whole time he's leaving KL and approaching Castle Black? Why have Bran and Sansa apologize for sending him up there? Why not show a happy reunion between Jon and Tormund, or a bit of a smile, instead of a look of dread, as gate in the wall closed behind him - anything to remind the audience that this is actually what Jon wanted?
Exactly - it's pretty much gone. This is what I had posted last night:
I thought it was actually pretty clever - almost all of the Night's Watch was pretty much killed off or vacated with The Night King coming through and this gave the wildlings /free folk a chance to come back to their homelands without their big bad being a problem. I'm sure Bran knew exactly what he was sending him off to do - to go live as Mance Rayder did, among the wildlings, essentially free (or as a ranger, like he wanted to originally with Benjen).
There also was a green sprout coming through the snow as they were exiting the wall - it looks like winter may have come and gone.
I think this is true, but they didn't quite portray it right IMO. Why have Jon be so glum the whole time he's leaving KL and approaching Castle Black? Why have Bran and Sansa apologize for sending him up there? Why not show a happy reunion between Jon and Tormund - anything to remind the audience that this is actually what Jon wanted?
I dont think he knew he was going to be meeting up with the free folk b4 he got there. I do think he could have smiled when he walked away from castle black. But I don't know. He has been through a ton of shit probably has PTSD
I think that in the books, Littlefinger's eyes are green-ish. Like gray-green, maybe? I've seen some theories that he was actually the third piece of the eyes puzzle.
Which I think is nice symbolism. Arya kills the Freys for revenge, kills Littlefinger as his executioner, and kills the NK as a hero. Between the three of them, they show all of the things she is willing/able to do. And in the end, she also shows herself capable of turning away from death (in the case of trying to kill Cersei) and attempting to save lives instead of take them.
But...he didn’t have green eyes on the show. REJECTED 😂
Let's face it...many of Melisandre's predictions were an epic fail.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
I think this is true, but they didn't quite portray it right IMO. Why have Jon be so glum the whole time he's leaving KL and approaching Castle Black? Why have Bran and Sansa apologize for sending him up there? Why not show a happy reunion between Jon and Tormund - anything to remind the audience that this is actually what Jon wanted?
I dont think he knew he was going to be meeting up with the free folk b4 he got there. I do think he could have smiled when he walked away from castle black. But I don't know. He has been through a ton of shit probably has PTSD
He might not have known the free folk were holding Castle Black but he must have known the Night's Watch was essentially disbanded and/or that he could go beyond the wall when he got there. And when he did realize the free folk had Castle Black, he still seemed to show zero reaction. I mean, I guess it's a big decision to leave your entire world behind forever but the way it was portrayed still made it seem like a negative thing when in fact, it was at least a somewhat "happy" ending for Jon.
I'm not going to waste time being mad about it, although I did pause at the naming of Bran and rant about mediocre white dudes. I had already decided that there was no way to make me *happy*, so I'd take what I could get. Things I did like: Dany not ever sitting on the throne, Kit Harrington's acting (for once), Sansa in the meeting in all fronts, Samwell everywhere, Tyrion having to bear the burden of being hand and correcting his mistakes instead of getting off easy, the "pack surviving" (a nice nod to Ned's lesson), and Jon going to the wildlings.
Didn't somebody made the comment (paraphrasing): "Is there still a Wall/Nights Watch?" during the sentencing? Anyone recall that? I'm going to re-watch tonight to see if I'm remembering correctly.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
Exactly - it's pretty much gone. This is what I had posted last night:
I thought it was actually pretty clever - almost all of the Night's Watch was pretty much killed off or vacated with The Night King coming through and this gave the wildlings /free folk a chance to come back to their homelands without their big bad being a problem. I'm sure Bran knew exactly what he was sending him off to do - to go live as Mance Rayder did, among the wildlings, essentially free (or as a ranger, like he wanted to originally with Benjen).
There also was a green sprout coming through the snow as they were exiting the wall - it looks like winter may have come and gone.
I think this is true, but they didn't quite portray it right IMO. Why have Jon be so glum the whole time he's leaving KL and approaching Castle Black? Why have Bran and Sansa apologize for sending him up there? Why not show a happy reunion between Jon and Tormund, or a bit of a smile, instead of a look of dread, as gate in the wall closed behind him - anything to remind the audience that this is actually what Jon wanted?
I don't think Sansa knew but Bran being Bran, he wouldn't have told him - he's not exactly known for keeping his mouth shut. Jon has loved two women and he's lost two women, both in his arms. He's entitled to a little PTSD. I don't think Jon knew what he wanted at that point either as they rode off or what he was being given...
"But as much as Game Of Thrones became known for sound and fury, I would contend that was never its best mode even when it was its most impressive, and “The Iron Throne” understands that as it plays out. It delivers a clear climax to the story it was telling, but an intimate one, which comes far sooner than you’d expect. And after it ends the story it’s been telling, it asserts that the story will keep going, contorting itself to create a new set of journeys, informed by those that came before. I said going into this finale that my test for a final season of a television series is whether it enriches what came before, but this finale succeeds—more or less, at least—by doing the opposite, putting most of its energy into constructing a vision of the future rather than relitigating the past. And the result is a finale that by its conclusion felt more like Game Of Thrones at its best than the season that preceded it, albeit in the process reinforcing how much the show struggled with how to integrate its final act into its larger story arc."
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
He isn't invested in his kingdom. He isn't actively managing anything there. He shows up, asks about a dragon and then wanders off to think about it a bit. His only selling point is that he knows some stuff. He's basically a half assed master of whispers.
Regardless of what Tyrion said, his story isn't all that (better story than Sansa who was cast about, then imprisoned in her own castle and rose to be queen? Better than the bastard who turned out be the rightful heir, lead the battles which saved the kingdom and rose from the dead? Better than Arya, born to be a lady, became an assassin and killed the night king?) He fell out of window and then made everyone cart him around and even die for him while he was barely communicative.
And when his half assed rule ends, yes, his kid won't take power, but some other person who has kids will be elected so they are just kicking the can down the road. Unless celibacy is now a criteria for leadership in Westeros just like for so much else in those books. GRRM really fetishized involuntary celibacy.
Didn't somebody made the comment (paraphrasing): "Is there still a Wall/Nights Watch?" during the sentencing? Anyone recall that? I'm going to re-watch tonight to see if I'm remembering correctly.
Jon asked. Tyrion said they always need a place to send bastards and criminals or something.
I think some of the council choosing a ruler reminds me a bit of the whispers you hear of Aerys’s reign where Rhaegar is meeting with the top houses and Aerys becomes paranoid. In that case it seems like they probably wanted to depose Aerys in favor of Rhaegar.
I think the avenue of choosing a ruler is a way of decentralizing power. Sure Bran can’t have kids but maybe the next choice can - and in that case the ruler is still reliant on the powerful houses to support him/her and they’ll all maintain their armies and various power bases (food from the reach, lumber from wherever etc).
It’s idealistic (probably a little too much so) but the idea of a council choosing a king isn’t totally out of left field. the choice of Bran is pretty eye roll worthy but in theory he has shown himself to be the least loyal to his family. He doesn’t see himself as a Stark really or as someone who would desperately want Starks on top so as a transition to this new method of choosing a ruler I guess it’s not the worst considering he theoretically knows everyone’s stories and the history too. It sort of breaks the wheel but not really because he’s just going to fuck off like Robert did (drinking, sex) and like Aerys did (paranoia) but his vices are plugging into the weirwood and staring off into space. He probably won’t spend all the money and won’t burn anyone so win?