It's by Tiffany Dufu. Another poster on the boards mentioned it and it's really speaking to me. I wanted you hear your takeaways. I'm actually going to ask my husband to listen to it (it's free on our library audiobook app).
I will add this one to my list. Some friends also recently recommended to me Girl, Wash Your Face: Stop Believing the Lies about Who You Are So You Can Become Who You Were Meant to Be.
ilovelucyvv, I didn't love Girl Wash Your Face. It might work for some people, but I felt like she got kind of preachy. Wasn't my favorite tone for a "self help" book.
I did but it was a while ago so I don’t remember a ton. I’ve read a lot of the current feminist (post feminist?) literature which seems to be centered on how men and women are achieving somewhat equality but then as soon as they become parents all of a sudden the 1950’s are back. That was certainly the case for us where we were somewhat equal but with us both deciding when he got his MBA his career would come a bit more. We lived in an apartment so not a lot of housework and didn’t have kids. All of a sudden we have kids and my workload tripled where his added a few hours a week.
I like the concept in general but I can’t drop every ball like for camp the kids need swimsuits, sunscreen and lunch so I can’t send them without anything and hope for the best. DH would likely not care and if the camp calls guess who they call? But there are some things I can do. There is also the argument that my H can come up to my standards for example in cleanliness but for a lot of marriages that just turns into a constant fighting power struggle or they change a little bit not a ton. The emotional labor and actual labor is still falling mostly in women. DH actually does a lot of the emotional labor but that doesn’t mean that I don’t still do more than half.
I can relate to the “feminist, liberal” man still wanting me to most of a certain type of work. You better believe though if it is not a priority for me then I will drop it. DH knows I can’t possibly take DS to all his baseball games and if my schedule gets stretched thin then he knows I will just RSVP no, so DH has been taking him, for example. Lawn work is another example that if DH weren’t here I would likely hire that and cleaning out if I could afford to do so.
Your H is gone for long periods of time, right? So it’s pretty much drop anything unnecessary, hire out a ton, get help from friends and family, and do the best with the tasks you have left. But yes you definitely can’t and shouldn’t add anything to your plate unless you absolutely have to and there is a very good reason. Otherwise say no or delegate out to someone else. The author is starting an app I think to help mom’s build community so I appreciate her community building aspect.
ilovelucyvv, I didn't love Girl Wash Your Face. It might work for some people, but I felt like she got kind of preachy. Wasn't my favorite tone for a "self help" book.
I hated that book. I listened to it. I felt like it had no substance. I couldn't stand the author.
I did but it was a while ago so I don’t remember a ton. I’ve read a lot of the current feminist (post feminist?) literature which seems to be centered on how men and women are achieving somewhat equality but then as soon as they become parents all of a sudden the 1950’s are back. That was certainly the case for us where we were somewhat equal but with us both deciding when he got his MBA his career would come a bit more. We lived in an apartment so not a lot of housework and didn’t have kids. All of a sudden we have kids and my workload tripled where his added a few hours a week.
I like the concept in general but I can’t drop every ball like for camp the kids need swimsuits, sunscreen and lunch so I can’t send them without anything and hope for the best. DH would likely not care and if the camp calls guess who they call? But there are some things I can do. There is also the argument that my H can come up to my standards for example in cleanliness but for a lot of marriages that just turns into a constant fighting power struggle or they change a little bit not a ton. The emotional labor and actual labor is still falling mostly in women. DH actually does a lot of the emotional labor but that doesn’t mean that I don’t still do more than half.
I can relate to the “feminist, liberal” man still wanting me to most of a certain type of work. You better believe though if it is not a priority for me then I will drop it. DH knows I can’t possibly take DS to all his baseball games and if my schedule gets stretched thin then he knows I will just RSVP no, so DH has been taking him, for example. Lawn work is another example that if DH weren’t here I would likely hire that and cleaning out if I could afford to do so.
Your H is gone for long periods of time, right? So it’s pretty much drop anything unnecessary, hire out a ton, get help from friends and family, and do the best with the tasks you have left. But yes you definitely can’t and shouldn’t add anything to your plate unless you absolutely have to and there is a very good reason. Otherwise say no or delegate out to someone else. The author is starting an app I think to help mom’s build community so I appreciate her community building aspect.
Yes my husband leaves for extended periods of time. In fact, he just told me the other day that his next trip is being moved. He will now be gone the entire month before my marathon. And he’s and the kids will miss it and I’ll need to travel alone. I needed them there, I wanted them there. To say I’m pissed is an understatement, but nothing can be done about that. He says he feels bad and he thinks I should defer it for next year bc he realizes it’s going to be hard.
(I’ve thought long and hard about it and I’m still mother fucking running it. Dammit.) I will get babysitters and get up early. I will make use of my gym w a childcare. My little one will stay at childcare longer than his usual pickup.My oldest will stay home alone more often. And lots of babysitters in order for him to continue to attend his practices that are too far away and late for my little ones to come to. Thank God for grocery delivery.
When she says Drop the ball, a lot of what she means (I think) is that many things can be delegated to the spouse. I loved her concept of Imaginary Delegation. This is ineffective. It’s when we don’t do something and expect the partner to pick up on it...but they don’t.
I mean this comes on the heels of the You Never Asked cartoon which really changed my life perspective. english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ And realizing that I was so bitter that “He should just KNOW!” I was really “not wanting to be a nag” but this isn’t effective. But Dufu’s concept of imaginary delegation is great bc it puts a name to my unsuccessful attempts. Now that would really be dropping the ball.
My favorite story so far is when she met a mom with small Kids and asked if her husband could do..(something, I can’t remember). The wife said something along the lines of “Him? No, He couldn’t handle a detail to save his life” and then Dufu asked what he did for a living and she responded that he is a tax attorney. So she called that out in a friendly way. I LOVED this because I felt it was very eye opening.
Gosh I just love her. Finally! An author I can relate to, not just some mommy blogger. It’s so simple, but brings tears to my eyes how much I see my life in these.
I forgot about the imaginary delegation. I am pretty sure I do that.
I did the master list a few years ago, maybe 4? Of everything that needed to be done. It was eye opening. He does much more than you would think. He saw how much I do. I was able to delegate more to him. We’ve also had variations on the to do apps. It was also scheduled in our google calendars.
But by far the main thing was him traveling for his job. New job is only 2 nights a month! He is willing to help when he is home. He doesn’t just sit on his butt. It’s the times he wasn’t home that was killing me. He got me a plow of our driveway from an app while he was in Buenos Aires and I was dealing with the polar vortex by myself. So there is a lot they can do remotely, a lot but it just doesn’t replace their actual presence.
Are there any changes you can make in the job front for him or you to make life less stressful?
Are there any changes you can make in the job front for him or you to make life less stressful?
He is hoping to retire from the military in the next few years. I will wait patiently. I did mention to him that two family members (one of his and one of mine) have commented on his drill weekends and how they impact our family.
We are both getting raises and daycare will get a lot less expensive in 2020/2021 when my oldest goes to middle school (he will get himself on the bus instead of before care) and the youngest will go to K.
waverly I agree w so much of what you said. My H also doesn’t sit around, in fact he is never sitting. Our priorities of when and what needs to be done are just different.
He’s also not willing to outsource lawncare (financially he won’t do it) although according to Tiffany Dufu’s concept of calculating your worth, it’s absolutely worth his time to do so. It really sucks when you have to say when is the next time you can mow...and it’s 6 days away and even then I will have to replan my day to accomodate it bc I will have to schlep the kids around alone...and anyway it needs it NOW. Our next door neighbor owns a landscaping company and can have it done whenever. But he won’t.
campermom we’re in the same boat in terms of my husband being frugal and not wanting to outsource lawn care. Part of my solution to that was to re-landscape our front yard and get rid of the grass so that there’s nothing to mow - but we’re in a dry climate so that’s very common and now we have pretty succulents. We still have grass in the backyard but at least it’s less of a big deal when that looks crappy. But I know that for you the lawn is just a symptom of a bigger problem.
Oh yes the lawncare. I have 20 million things to do to prep for vacation and he is out pulling weeds, not from the flower garden like might possibly be needed, but from the grass. This is like a 2 foot by 2 foot patch by the side of the road, that no one cares about or notices. It is neatly mowed. I literally cannot see weeds in it. Yes, the different priorities because the grass somehow became his baby. Luckily our lawn is actually pretty small, so it only takes about 30 minutes for care, but then he invents things to care about and then tracks the dirt inside the house and doesn't clean it up.
My sister has tons of acreage and it takes them 6 hours to mow, can you imagine 6 hours of your life every weekend in the summer?
When DD was a baby, I put my foot through the door, I was so mad. He took time off and instead let me and the mother's helper (at least he let me hire a mother's helper) do all the baby care while he installed a million child proof outlets that we didn't need. OK he could have done like 5, but he did every single one I think in the entire house and it took weeks. We have to re-direct their energy to things that actually matter, which is extremely difficult because he is bit obsessive and stubborn. DH is a spender, so I have somewhat of the opposite problem with him, but likely a smaller problem in some ways.
I am counting down to aftercare only this fall! We will save $100 a week! We will eventually get rid of aftercare, but since kids are 8 and 6, we have a couple of years at the minimum, and they will pick up from after school activities, so it makes sense to keep it for the days their activity ends at 4 or something like that.
I think none of these things will help in my situation. I wish someone would write the same book but assume your spouse has anxiety. It’s a different ball game. DH can’t focus on what we agree on or be redirected. For instance, he has spent 15-20 hours in the last couple weekends on the creek part of our lot. Y’all it looks almost exactly the same to me. It’s very low value, and he’s skipping things that would be high value (like mosquito spraying). Same to his garden. He didn’t/doesn’t engage the kids in this - it is wholly his. Skimming the pool after the storms would be high value.
Pretty much all the high value tasks fall to me - if they affect the kids, the only way to handle them is for me to do it. I’d like to make it as simple as DH is selfish, but it’s more that he isn’t seeing his therapist enough.
2chatter, yeah I get this. I think some of the reason that DH had chosen to do low value projects in the past is for mental health reasons. I suppose I could also say he is selfish. But if he feels bad unless he can keep his hands/ mind busy and he does have documented depression and anxiety and is seeing a therapist then it borders into the mental health part.
I will say that I think the therapist and some of my push back has helped him, but there is still that tendency to do those non important tasks. I can't quite put my finger on it. It's almost like he has ADHD (not hyperactive), and DS shows signs of it too like he cannot really complete a task very well. DS wonders off in the middle of it. I was a space cadet at that age too, 8, so I don't know how much of it is that, but I don't think DH can really look back well on his childhood with a ton of accuracy about his behavior at that age mostly because he just doesn't remember.
He is doing some high value tasks like baseball for example mostly because it is all other fathers, so there is a bit of a gender peer pressure for him but I think that is good because I was doing basketball and wondering where DH was when DS didn't even have the strength to throw the ball to the basket or dribble the ball. Physical therapy turned out to be the answer.
His care is pricey, but it is helping. He sees the therapist weekly and has for 1.5 years and gets a massage every 3-4 weeks. He did the float thing once as well.
Post by mustardseed2007 on Jul 2, 2019 11:31:13 GMT -5
On doing unimportant tasks - I've been listening to the decluttering/cleaning podcast A Slob Comes Clean. It's not an interesting topic and I have no idea why it's helped me so much but it's been huge for me personally getting my house in order lately.
She talks about the importance of focusing on visibility when cleaning or decluttering, which she acknowledges should be obvious, but she shared that her tendency is to clean a drawer or linen closet rather than doing the living room for some reason. She doesn't say WHY she does that (the podcast is full of analyzing her own behavior without figuring out the root cause...which is oddly...nice). She just states how important it is for people who have the tendency toward living in clutter to focus on not doing that.
I find I have that tendency too. It's partly being overwhelmed. There may be an executive functioning issue too? I was diagnosed with ADD as a kid (no H). I don't know what it is but it's not super helpful. I started trying to fix it when my therapist gave me the assignment of getting my house in order since a disaster of a home was a reason I gave for not having people over.
Yeah I think it is interesting because the reason why is not the same as what DH might think of as why. For example, he keeps saying he wants to purge all this stuff in the house. Guess what, I have purged and purged and purged the house. It is good, and it is ongoing. The problem is that he continually buys stuff, and that he (and the kids and sometimes me) doesn't put everything away. When it is not put away it is going to look like there is more stuff than there actually is. The other problem is likely not enough storage, that is why I purge first and then get storage. Believe me other people have way more stuff than we do because of all the purging I have done, but they also have a section on their basement, crawl storage or garage that is literally storage boxes and we do not have that.
I like to have my house nice for guests. I really need to just rip the carpet out of the basement and put something down for when the cat pukes because I now have to shampoo the carpet any time we have guests due to the stupid cat. But in a lot of ways, I have just come to realize that I am not a fan of the back and forth to set up plans, or of hosting. And I definitely do not put in as much effort as I should with friends (and I am an introvert) because I am busy with work and kids and friends comes later in the priority list. Luckily and sometimes frustratingly because I would rather recline in my PJs, DH is better at that and helps keep me social.
Yes and it was life changing when I had baby #3! Her message really drove home the point that much of my stress is self-induced and I need to work on my mindset and communication. I naturally want to take care of everything and be in charge of all the balls but they came crashing down when our third entered our lives.
The biggest thing for me is to realize that all of these things that I'm taking on aren't equal on the priority list and to let go of whatever I can. Also, enlist DH, our friends and family, etc for help. I started two different car pools for DD1's activities this school year. The old MellyM would've never done that - just add it to MY list. DH has his own "balls" now and I don't get in the middle of it. That's another big mindset shift - if he's in charge of garbage and lawn care then it's off my radar. I used to pitch in if I saw it wasn't getting done according to my liking. Not anymore. I love that snow plow example! Figure out a way to get it done if you're going to be out of town.
mellym, definitely when I do delegate to DH I forget about it. He was in charge of 5pm Friday Field Hockey. His friends mentioned something to me that he said to them during Field Hockey and I was so taken aback because I totally dumped the whole thing totally out of my brain. Like how did you guys know that? Oh field hockey, what is that?
I re-read, but I feel like I have dropped a lot of balls. I have delegated more to the kids even as they get older. There are a lot of things that I am like NOPE to because when DH traveled I simply was in survival mode. During the week, I got kids up and to daycare/ school, worked, picked them back up, made dinner, did dishes, brought in the mail, took out the trash, and that was it for 4-5 days. There was so much that I didn't do and left it for the weekend with DH's help.
It's different now because he is no longer traveling. I am not sure how to entirely come out of survival mode though.
Maybe we should challenge ourselves to "drop one ball" a week. See how that goes, re-evaluate, and try something new the next week. I would need help coming up with ideas though since I've outsourced a lot to Amazon and grocery delivery and the kids already. Maybe the first challenge is building a carpool community for me? campermom, what are you working on?
I re-read, but I feel like I have dropped a lot of balls. I have delegated more to the kids even as they get older. There are a lot of things that I am like NOPE to because when DH traveled I simply was in survival mode. During the week, I got kids up and to daycare/ school, worked, picked them back up, made dinner, did dishes, brought in the mail, took out the trash, and that was it for 4-5 days. There was so much that I didn't do and left it for the weekend with DH's help.
It's different now because he is no longer traveling. I am not sure how to entirely come out of survival mode though.
Maybe we should challenge ourselves to "drop one ball" a week. See how that goes, re-evaluate, and try something new the next week. I would need help coming up with ideas though since I've outsourced a lot to Amazon and grocery delivery and the kids already. Maybe the first challenge is building a carpool community for me? campermom, what are you working on?
I love this idea! Coming up with what I’ll drop the ball on is a little hard. Isn’t it?! Here I go.
H will be gone for a month this fall and I hear everything you say with the survival mode. Therefore:
-no more religious ed. No one has a sacrament coming up, we will not do it this year. -I’m not going to give DD an option for soccer in the fall. If she wants, she can do Girls on the Run. It’s twice a week right after school, so that will save me a trip and I’ll just have to pick her up. -I’m dropping some guilt. Sometimes things cost more money for convenience. I’m tired of running myself ragged w 3 kids and a string of errands and in-and-outs of the car. Either that or asking H to pick up things here or there without guilt. He’s getting better at not being huffy when I do that. Also no guilt if DS1 misses fencing practice.
What’s everyone else going to drop the ball on? I’d love more ideas.
- Only easy meals during the week, when DH travels it was a set schedule for meal planning (Mon- new recipe, Tue Tacos, Wed- grilled cheese or breakfast for dinner, Thursday- spaghetti, Fri-pizza). - I don't sort laundry I just throw it all in together except for maybe towels and sheets. Some people get color proof detergent, but none of our clothes bleed. I used to not fold the kids clothes, and kids just took them out of the dryer and put away, but they fought at the dryer and it was hard to do mine and not theirs, but maybe I should do that again.They just mess up their clothes in the drawers anyway. - I try hard not to do errands. We have grocery delivery. I might run out once a week to a drugstore while on lunch. Amazon the rest- especially if your DH is gone on the weekends too. - I e-mailed the coach to see if soccer practice can be on the same night and same ish time for the 2 kids- different ages. I don't know if that was a success or not. - So far we have Monday night dance and soccer night and that is it during the week, then soccer on Sat. But if it were just me, I would have delayed dance until soccer season was over with. We did that last year and it worked out well. My friend took DD to Girl Scouts for me because it often conflicted with basketball and baseball. She is a bit of a control freak, so she wanted to do drop offs and pick ups usually which worked out well for me. - We have 2 roombas. We don't have a housecleaner now, but we used to when the kids were babies. - No lawn service, but I make DH hire out the leaves because we have tons and need to bag it. - I made him hire out plow service a couple of times when it was really bad. - Afterschool activities I've heard are the way to go because they are already there, just pick up. We haven't done too many but those that we have I completely get to forget about except to say how was that. - When DH traveled and I had babies that I couldn't leave I would grab a ton of supplies beforehand for example Motrin for baby fevers for the middle of the night. - DS is 8, and we are training him to be home alone since he turned 8 so almost 9 months now. We don't leave him long, but we can leave him now for 20 minutes to run to the store. It's super freeing to run to Ace hardware for bug killer stuff without the kids when I have a fly infestation. DD isn't quite there yet. But maybe a neighbor can keep an eye on them for 15 minutes if you have to get something, for example we all slipped on ice, and I had to go out and get salt and didn't want to bring 2 kids with because they were only going to injure themselves. I think it is hard to ask, but easy for someone to come over for 15 minutes while you run out or ask the neighbor hey do you have any kids motrin, for example. My neighbor asks me a lot, and honestly it's a bit weird to me because we are so independent, but that is the problem right? You don't have to make brownies. But if you do, and you are missing an egg you don't have to put 3 kids in the car to get an egg, you could ask a neighbor. I need to get better with this too because I would never ask. But it all works better when we all work with each other.
I should get a roomba. But let’s be real, it wouldn’t really save me time bc I don’t vacuum in between biweekly housecleanings!
I like your line about the neighbors, that’s like Tiffany’s Building a support network, or community.
I forgot I said to myself “I’m dropping the Ball!” When I was getting our camper ready for a week king trip one thing I needed (my thought) to do was wash all the bed linens. We had already taken 2-3 weekend trips this year. Well I washed my bed but said “forget it” to the kids’. They won’t know the difference and it doesn’t matter.
campermom, LOL to the Roomba! Same thought has been stopping me. I also need to buy a second set of sheets for our bedroom so the cleaners will change the sheets for us.
Here are some that I'm working on:
- Do not sign up DD2 for any activities until 4K or K unless it's at the Y and daycare takes her during the day. Trying to stay strong. - Limit DD1's after school activities and find carpool parents to share drop off and pick up duty - DH to handle all communication with his parents and let go of the guilt when MIL is upset because she "doesn't know about anything" - Saying no to plans that don't fit our immediate family and being protective of our time on weekends, even if our parents get upset. - Dropping the excuses for not working out - it's a ball that I want to hold and need to make time for every week for self care - DH to take on more of the household load - grocery shopping, shares doctor appointments/dentist, dishes, coordinating with friends/babysitters - we started talking weekly about what we have upcoming and divvying up the workload. He is more than willing to do things if I communicate them to him and give him a chance to do it. - Kids put their own laundry away and unload the dishwasher, pick up their bedroom and bathroom - Start meal planning during the week so we're all on the same page and kids can blame the menu and not me if they don't like it - ha!
I have not read this book, but I want to. I just wanted to report that I bought a new car seat for DS2 for DH's car probably 2 months ago. We unboxed it so the kids could play with the box and ever since then itsat in the garage and has been on my to do list to install. And last night DH finally installed it, without me asking, while watching the 3 kids on his own before I got home from a work meeting. He didn't install it completely correctly (I had to add the top tether), but I feel like this is good reinforcement for me that I can ignore something non-time-sensitive and he will eventually do it
I should get a roomba. But let’s be real, it wouldn’t really save me time bc I don’t vacuum in between biweekly housecleanings!
I like your line about the neighbors, that’s like Tiffany’s Building a support network, or community.
I forgot I said to myself “I’m dropping the Ball!” When I was getting our camper ready for a week king trip one thing I needed (my thought) to do was wash all the bed linens. We had already taken 2-3 weekend trips this year. Well I washed my bed but said “forget it” to the kids’. They won’t know the difference and it doesn’t matter.
I don't have a housecleaner, but I use my roomba in the main area daily, and it looks so much better. No more emergency cleaning for guests type thing. I also take it downstairs to the playroom which the housecleaner never cleaned, and use it underneath the table where the kids make a mess eating. It sometimes gets run 2-3 times a day usually only in weird circumstances like when 300 flies hatched in my house for some reason on Thursday and I had to kill them all and vacuum them all up or when DH does a messy project- it's helpful for that too. I love mine because I am lazy.