I really think Warren can’t beat Trump. She’s going to “take away your health insurance” and “charge you more for it.” I like her but I am shocked she is the frontrunner and Democrats seem to be willfully blind to her serious general election liabilities. (Same goes, as it always has, for Bernie.)
And I thought she did great last night.
I agree with you. I also think alot of people are still not paying attention because there are so many candidates. Warren is very careful in her debates to sell M4A but not get into that people will not have their private insurance. This is why Kamala changed her plan and did a 10 year phase out because she sees the polls that say people don't want to give up their insurance. I don't think people are up for a new healthcare plan every time we have a new potus.
I really think Warren can’t beat Trump. She’s going to “take away your health insurance” and “charge you more for it.” I like her but I am shocked she is the frontrunner and Democrats seem to be willfully blind to her serious general election liabilities. (Same goes, as it always has, for Bernie.)
And I thought she did great last night.
Trump will use the exact same smear against whoever the Dems nominate, even someone like Biden or Mayor Pete who vocally say they don't want to take away your health insurance. Because I don't see this as a general election liability for Warren, specifically, it doesn't affect my support for her.
Post by turnipthebeet on Oct 16, 2019 19:36:12 GMT -5
With the right VP pick, Warren could do it. If she picks a Tim Kaine (boomer white man), then we’re screwed. But I think she’s smarter than that. For example, she’s recently met with Andrew Gillum.
Do you think she will move to the center in the general? Will the left flank issue a mutiny if she does and vote for whatever crazy McLefty is running for the greens?
I mean that she'll move center once in office. My only caveat to this is if the Senate swings left. If she has a Dem Congress, she's totally going forward on her plans. I think Sanders' health scare has done him in if we're being honest.
I remember being in line in 2008 and the GOP switch overs in front of me were saying they couldn't vote for McCain because his age meant if anything happened Palin would run the show. I could be wrong, but that seems like the logical move by leftists who like Bernie but feel Warren will outlive him.
See that’s my concern. I’m not sure she can even make it out of the general if she stays with the plan to eliminate private health insurance and raise taxes.
Can someone tell me how well eliminating private insurance polls with the general public? seeyalater52?
I really think Warren can’t beat Trump. She’s going to “take away your health insurance” and “charge you more for it.” I like her but I am shocked she is the frontrunner and Democrats seem to be willfully blind to her serious general election liabilities. (Same goes, as it always has, for Bernie.)
And I thought she did great last night.
Trump will use the exact same smear against whoever the Dems nominate, even someone like Biden or Mayor Pete who vocally say they don't want to take away your health insurance. Because I don't see this as a general election liability for Warren, specifically, it doesn't affect my support for her.
Except Biden and Pete can say that’s not their plan. Warren can’t.
I really wish some of the health care proposals would look at how health insurance is done in other countries. Even though most countries are much smaller than the US, they could still be a role model. How is it that the US has the most expensive health care in the world? For instance, when we lived in the Netherlands it worked this way. Everybody gets basic health coverage for free (you pay more income tax there to pay for this and for free/cheap education). Then, when you work and your income is above a certain threshold, you are required to get supplementary insurance for the adults in your family. There is a website (open marketplace) with many private plans that offer this. Plans differ in price and what they cover (dental, some cover fysio, some cover acupuncture/alternative medicine). Every year during open enrollment you can choose to stick with your plan or switch. When you visit your dr, dentist, or whatever, there are no OOP costs. We would sometimes get a dentist bill after the fact for $5-$10 for a teeth cleaning because we picked a plan that didn't cover all. OOP max for the year was around $400.
What happens to people with pre-existing conditions in this scenario? What are prescription drug prices like?
Basic coverage will not cut it for some people. So no, I don’t necessarily want to pay high premiums and deductibles however I do want to make sure the care I need is covered.
I mean that she'll move center once in office. My only caveat to this is if the Senate swings left. If she has a Dem Congress, she's totally going forward on her plans. I think Sanders' health scare has done him in if we're being honest.
I remember being in line in 2008 and the GOP switch overs in front of me were saying they couldn't vote for McCain because his age meant if anything happened Palin would run the show. I could be wrong, but that seems like the logical move by leftists who like Bernie but feel Warren will outlive him.
See that’s my concern. I’m not sure she can even make it out of the general if she stays with the plan to eliminate private health insurance and raise taxes.
Can someone tell me how well eliminating private insurance polls with the general public? seeyalater52?
If it’s said that explicitly, very poorly. But the vague “Medicare for All” language (without details which always make it drop) polls between pretty well as very All depending on how it’s worded. Voters do highly favor doing something major to fix health care so I’m not convinced it plays terribly.
I also think Warren’s position on health care is dumb enough that she doesn’t even believe herself (she’s too good on policy to truly support Medicare for All) and it kind of looks to me like she is posturing to try to backtrack a little in preparation for the general, which I think is a good move.
Still Castro. It’s frustrating to see so many people like him, but his polling doesn’t budge. I don’t get it. He’s running low on money too, so I’m nervous.
My favorite too! He actually called my husband to ask for a donation last week. Like he himself. They went to law school together and my husband supported another one of their law school peers, who Castro is good friends with, in a congressional run last year. His cash isn’t looking good at all. Funnily enough, he is not my husband’s candidate.
See that’s my concern. I’m not sure she can even make it out of the general if she stays with the plan to eliminate private health insurance and raise taxes.
Can someone tell me how well eliminating private insurance polls with the general public? seeyalater52 ?
If it’s said that explicitly, very poorly. But the vague “Medicare for All” language (without details which always make it drop) polls between pretty well as very All depending on how it’s worded. Voters do highly favor doing something major to fix health care so I’m not convinced it plays terribly.
I also think Warren’s position on health care is dumb enough that she doesn’t even believe herself (she’s too good on policy to truly support Medicare for All) and it kind of looks to me like she is posturing to try to backtrack a little in preparation for the general, which I think is a good move.
I listened to a npr session with someone who said the exact same thing. She hasn't come out with a plan. She is just endorsing Bernie's plan. Which gives her cover to switch to something a bit later.
I think Warren will move more towards the center. But I also think that she has the ideas and can come up with an incremental plan to get from where we are now to where we want to be with health care. People are so hung up on wanting to keep their own private health insurance. But do they want to keep paying these high premiums? Are you sure your current insurance is so great? And why does health insurance have to be tied to your job? And how many people don't qualify for affordable plans because of pre-existing conditions. That is the whole point behind any M4A system, if you only do it half-way and say people can keep their health insurance if they want, you are not going to get the same kind of cost savings as when everybody is covered by some basic insurance.
Yes I want to keep my iinsurance. My premiums aren’t high. I’d gladly pay more to also contribute to the tax pool for people who don’t want to keep their insurance to have a different, public option type plan. But that plan isn’t going to cover the care I personally need, so if my current health care goes away I’m going to be fucked. The beginning of your post is speaking for a lot of people and assuming that the reason we don’t agree is because we are misinformed. Well, I can assure you I’m not misinformed.
Under the ACA no one can be denied a plan (or priced differently) due to preexisting conditions so your question for that is just out of date.
The last bit about it costing more if we don’t cover everyone is also not strictly true. While the devil is in the specific details, there are some financial benefits to covering everyone under the same plan but you also waste a LOT of money (or leave money on the table) when you put up taxpayer money to cover people who don’t need coverage. Especially if you don’t also propose taxing employers to make up some of the difference if we move to non-employment based plans (most of the current proposals don’t really address this.) Under most proposals you waste more than you save with M4A. It’s an expensive proposal, which to me isn’t an issue if it does what it needs to do but I will never be convinced that the ONLY possible way to achieve these goals is through this specific proposal and neither is anyone else who works in health policy. For savings the most important part is that everyone has a plan and has coverage, not that they’re covered in some specific way. It is both possible and I think desirable (both practically and politically) to consider hybrid options that give people the most options to meet their individual needs, and for many of us that will never be a national health care plan.
See that’s my concern. I’m not sure she can even make it out of the general if she stays with the plan to eliminate private health insurance and raise taxes.
Can someone tell me how well eliminating private insurance polls with the general public? seeyalater52?
If it’s said that explicitly, very poorly. But the vague “Medicare for All” language (without details which always make it drop) polls between pretty well as very All depending on how it’s worded. Voters do highly favor doing something major to fix health care so I’m not convinced it plays terribly.
I also think Warren’s position on health care is dumb enough that she doesn’t even believe herself (she’s too good on policy to truly support Medicare for All) and it kind of looks to me like she is posturing to try to backtrack a little in preparation for the general, which I think is a good move.
I’m not surprised it polls well. At least in NJ, the people I know on plans available through the ACA are deeply unhappy (my mom’s monthly premium exceeds her mortgage and her coverage is completely subpar; she simply can’t afford to see a doctor despite coverage). I’ve yet to meet someone who hasn’t been screwed by private insurance at one point or another. We have “great” insurance and Hs company covers the entire premium and we still spend upwards of $5K a year in an average year where we have no major events.
The reality is that a president only has one, maybe two shots, at passing a sweeping piece of legislation. How does climate change, voting rights, or immigration get dealt with if we do M4A? Answer: they don’t.
So I am pissed at every candidate who is running on sweeping health care. Quietly propose a public option and a couple fixes to the ACA and move the fuck on.
Kamala was the winner of the debate IMO simply because of her refusal on Tuesday to keep participating in a fight about this issue. It’s going to kill us in the general and for nothing.
I really think Warren can’t beat Trump. She’s going to “take away your health insurance” and “charge you more for it.” I like her but I am shocked she is the frontrunner and Democrats seem to be willfully blind to her serious general election liabilities. (Same goes, as it always has, for Bernie.)
And I thought she did great last night.
Who are you supporting? (just curious). I have similar reservations about the MFA plan and thought that Buttigieg brought up valid points during the debate--but I still really like Warren and think she would debate well against Trump. I don't know what the answer is here.
The other thing about M4A - insurance companies aren’t going away. They will get no bid contracts from HHS to manage your M4A plan.
You think dealing with insurance companies is bad now, just wait for when you are still dealing with them, except you or your for profit employer aren’t their customers, the government is.
Not gonna lie, having the government entirely in control of healthcare coverage is very off putting to me. Wouldn’t that set up a situation where depending on the president, coverage could change? I’m not totally educated on that but thinking about things like the Hyde amendment. It makes me uncomfortable...right now the current administration is evil, incompetent and full of dumb criminals and they’ve managed to make some admin changes in various agencies. What happens when there is a competent administration that is going to thread the needle on the law? How much control is given to politicians in general when it comes to coverage with M4A? I’m genuinely asking because I don’t know and I have only ever dealt with private/employer sponsored healthcare.
Still all in for Senator Harris. I’m making calls for her today even though I’m sick and just want to stay in bed.
I thought Harris did well at the debate. As for Warren, I will make calls and vote for her if she’s the nominee, but her lack of clarity on raising taxes for her M4A plan is starting to irk me. She’s letting other people control the narrative on it instead of being honest. And I get that it’s Bernie’s plan, not her plan, which is humorous to me given her campaign slogan.
FWIW, Harris would wipe the floor with Trump in the debates. I think there is a reason he doesn’t mention her. If he does, she gets press. He is terrified of her.
I really think Warren can’t beat Trump. She’s going to “take away your health insurance” and “charge you more for it.” I like her but I am shocked she is the frontrunner and Democrats seem to be willfully blind to her serious general election liabilities. (Same goes, as it always has, for Bernie.)
And I thought she did great last night.
Who are you supporting? (just curious). I have similar reservations about the MFA plan and thought that Buttigieg brought up valid points during the debate--but I still really like Warren and think she would debate well against Trump. I don't know what the answer is here.
Harris. Her plan would phase out private insurance and I still don’t like that but I like it better than eliminating it now. It also doesn’t seem to be her big thing.
I'm really surprised at the number who are in for Warren or Harris as their top two. Healthcare is such a significant issue in this campaign, and they have pretty different plans, it seems an unlikely pair to be good with either. Obviously either is fine with me in the general election if she is the nominee, but while we're talking about who the nominee will be it's a different conversation.
I am all in for Harris, but can't get behind Warren's plans for healthcare. I don't like the elimination of private health insurance, at least not within the next presidential term, and I also think it would be a liability in the general election. I just wish Harris was being treated like the top tier candidate that she should be seen as.
I think Warren will move more towards the center. But I also think that she has the ideas and can come up with an incremental plan to get from where we are now to where we want to be with health care. People are so hung up on wanting to keep their own private health insurance. But do they want to keep paying these high premiums? Are you sure your current insurance is so great? And why does health insurance have to be tied to your job? And how many people don't qualify for affordable plans because of pre-existing conditions. That is the whole point behind any M4A system, if you only do it half-way and say people can keep their health insurance if they want, you are not going to get the same kind of cost savings as when everybody is covered by some basic insurance.
It's been brought up on many occasions, but when I had an employer-based plan based in NJ, my insurance covered $78,000 in health care costs in 2018 alone, for me alone, that would not be covered under the proposed M4A plan. When I left that job I kept that plan via COBRA and was paying $400/month without any employer kick-ins, with a $500 deductible and $50 specialist co-pay. You bet it was worth it. I loved my insurance and my doctors did too!
But yes, tying it to your job and only have very limited options (mostly based on your job and what your HR negotiates) is BS. For example, the plans offered by my current (small) company are poor, my employer only kicks in $200, no matter what plan you choose, and it doesn't cover what I need. So I'm now on my H's plan, because I'm lucky enough to 1) be married and 2) have a spouse who works for a large company with access to decent health insurance. Single people, people with SAH spouses, or people married to others who are either freelancers, small business owners, or work for companies that don't offer insurance obviously don't have those choices.
There's also a really big economic elephant no one is talking about, which is that health insurance and medical billing is a huge source of jobs for middle class Americans, and a massive part of the "savings" will come from eliminating those jobs and streamlining charges, coding, and reimbursements.
Because she is fanning the flames of this, if/when Warren moves an inch away from MFA/eliminate private health insurance during a general election campaign, the left will go ballistic, assuming she gets the nomination.
I know during the 2018 election they had a lot of polls showing ACA was more popular than ever. I just don’t know where she moves to if you guys think she’ll change. Med for all to Med for some? And her plan is to do it in 4 years? Do you know the amount of cleanup of foreign policy and everything else that has to be done first? It’s just not realistic. We’re probably not getting the senate and if you fillerbuster she may still not have the votes. Obama wasn’t overhauling and struggled to get all the votes. This is a complete let’s start over.
I don't think she'll move away from universal coverage and elimination of private insurance. I just think she'll develop a policy that's better than Medicare for All. She just doesn't want to get into it now because it will alienate Bernie Bros and she doesn't want to have to deal with the nuances of how her universal coverage plan will be different from Bernie's universal coverage plan because OMG we're already debating the nuances of Medicare for all vs. medicare for some in every single freaking debate.
I would not be surprised that, if Warren get the nom, she will have a more moderate VP, and will take on their healthcare policy proposal.
I find all the discussions surrounding healthcare to be tired. But, I get why, a lot of people have that as a major concern. Its just frustrating when there is so little discussion on big issues, like climate change, or even restoring democracy. What I want someone to ask all the candidates is "if you were to be elected President, what will you do if/when Trump refuses to leave office" He has shown time and time again that he doesn't give a fuck about following social norms or precedent, why will this be any different?
But, because I am just jaded by the whole process, I don't think any D will win. Win the popular vote? yes. But, between the election interference, The gerrymandering, the fucked EC, the erosion of our democratic processes, and a good portion of Americans who think Trump is doing a-okay - I have little faith in the election. Hope I am wrong and I will do my part to try to make that happen, but, also preparing myself for another disappointing Election day.
I would not be surprised that, if Warren get the nom, she will have a more moderate VP, and will take on their healthcare policy proposal.
I find all the discussions surrounding healthcare to be tired. But, I get why, a lot of people have that as a major concern. Its just frustrating when there is so little discussion on big issues, like climate change, or even restoring democracy. What I want someone to ask all the candidates is "if you were to be elected President, what will you do if/when Trump refuses to leave office" He has shown time and time again that he doesn't give a fuck about following social norms or precedent, why will this be any different?
But, because I am just jaded by the whole process, I don't think any D will win. Win the popular vote? yes. But, between the election interference, The gerrymandering, the fucked EC, the erosion of our democratic processes, and a good portion of Americans who think Trump is doing a-okay - I have little faith in the election. Hope I am wrong and I will do my part to try to make that happen, but, also preparing myself for another disappointing Election day.
I'm so with you on this. I want to be more excited to throw myself behind a candidate, but I'm not ready for another emotional pummeling next Election Day.
The reality is that a president only has one, maybe two shots, at passing a sweeping piece of legislation. How does climate change, voting rights, or immigration get dealt with if we do M4A? Answer: they don’t.
So I am pissed at every candidate who is running on sweeping health care. Quietly propose a public option and a couple fixes to the ACA and move the fuck on.
Kamala was the winner of the debate IMO simply because of her refusal on Tuesday to keep participating in a fight about this issue. It’s going to kill us in the general and for nothing.
Yup. It’s such a waste of space and energy. Some fairly small and inexpensive (relative to M4A) fixes to the ACA would make a HUGE difference. Focusing on blowing up the whole health care system and replacing it with something that most experts think is unable to be implemented as currently imagined is is irresponsible. I’m fairly sure the ACA was the LAST major sweeping policy change that was passed within the past decade-ish. Other issues need to be addressed.
I’m also weary of pretending this is a normal election.
Like, WTF. Can there please be a discussion about voting rights? Foreign interference? The shit that went down in GA that made sure Abrams “lost”?
Yeah I feel like all that is ever discussed is healthcare and I'm like, hi everything's on fire, and who knows what the orange menace and his team of dumb criminals have cooked up for 2020? I blame Bernie for this mostly.
Ultimately, outside of like 2 or 3 people who have made it to the debate stage (Tulsi/Steyer), I think they are all serious candidates. Do I love them all? No. Do I prefer some over others? Yes. But at the end of the day, everyone else on that stage - including my two least faves - Bernie and Biden - are serious candidates who would be leaps and bounds better than the current administration.
I just don't care. I will vote for any of them. I will vote for my dog, who truly does have more sense than Trump and is not a corrupt criminal.
This whole thing sucks. We have so many strong candidates and yet we have to pick one and all of them have serious liabilities on their own. I’m very frustrated that Castro, Booker, and Harris are polling so badly compared to Biden, Warren, and Sanders. I really wish our nominee was not going to be another 70-something white person. I love Warren, but I cannot shake my concern that she’s too vulnerable to the way Trump and company attack. I’m personally trying to mellow my negative feelings to Sanders, but he’s so divisive within the party he just seems like bad news. And Uncle Joe... I get why he’s popular with the demographic he is, but it’s 2019 and we just can’t.