Post by ChillyMcFreeze on Jan 16, 2020 11:51:38 GMT -5
Yep, totally separate. We have no joint accounts. We split the bills so they are an equitable proportion of our net income. We each have our own credit cards and fun money. We split shared purchases based on whose "turn" it is, but really based on who is more capable of making the purchase at the time. We split vacations as well -- usually he pays for travel and hotel, and I pay for all expenses when we're there.
It works well for us because we fully trust each other to get the bills paid. I am much less responsible with budgeting than he is, but after the bills are paid, if I start to run low on "fun money", that's my problem. I think that approach is fine if both people can take that responsibility, but not if your priorities are drastically different.
I'm sorry this is happening to you, but the fact that he's taking money from your kids' piggy banks is a big red flag to me. What is he buying with this money? Do you know what he's spending it on? He has really damaged his relationship with his daughters and for what?
this. what is he buying?
IMO - based on your update he needs to have ZERO access to any family finances. NONE. maxed out $6,500 in 2 months??? that's not poor money management - it's something else entirely. compulsive spending? gambling? I don't know. but you could get into serious financial trouble if he keeps that up.
I had a friend her now exH was in charge of the mortgage. guess what he didn't pay for 4+ months and she found letters from the bank about taking their home. She was able to fix it financially but it was crippling to their (at the time) finances and she's still digging out of the financial and emotional mess he made.
We have a joint checking account we both contribute to for household bills, kid stuff, etc. and a few joint savings accounts for education, general savings, and travel. Equally, because we make about the same amount of money, if we didn't we would contribute proportionally to our incomes.
Whatever is left goes to individual checking accounts to use at our discretion. No joint credit cards, though I do have a card for one of his that I never use.
ETA: With that update, agree w/ pp's that the issue isn't really how you handle finances, it's how he spends and why.
I agree with PPs that your proposed solution is likely to make the situation worse, not better.
Step #1 is for him to realize that what he's doing isn't working. It doesn't sound like he acknowledges that he has a spending problem. I'm not really sure how to get him to that step. It may need to involve therapy. What are your long-term financial goals (retiring at X age, helping the kids pay for college, etc.)? Can you help him see how this cycle of overspending and debt is keeping you off-track for meeting those goals?
Step #2 is for him to lose all access to debit and credit cards until he establishes better habits. You pay the bills, and you agree on a weekly cash budget together. If he spends it all the first day, 🤷
Step #3 is he slowly gets increased access to your finances, as he rebuilds trust and gets used to sticking to a budget.
Both of my parents, separately and at different times, took money from me when I was a child. It has stayed with me for life. I would protect all assets and block any credit that you will be responsible for until this problem can be dealt with in counseling. This is so far from a division of responsibility problem. I'm sorry you're in this position and I think you should brace yourself for the possibility of some sort of addiction coming to light.
Post by ouiserboudreaux on Jan 16, 2020 12:14:48 GMT -5
My husband and I have separate finances for our own stuff and joint accounts for joint bills. We use direct deposit and figure out how much needs to go into the joint account for all the bills; the money goes in, doesn't get touched and the bills are all on auto-pay so it comes out again.
More detail:
I have my own checking/savings accounts, we have 4 shared accounts (general bill pay, HELOC, mortgage, and 'spare' checking account) and he has his own checking/savings. We figure out our monthly bills and split it 60/40 based on income. We then use direct deposit to split our checks so that each of our portions go to the general bill pay and mortgage accounts. And then all the bills are auto-deducted.
Exceptions: We actually went back to an old-fashioned envelope system and cash for our other budget items: dining out, once yearly bills (prime, terminex, etc.), misc house upkeep and each week I go to the bank, withdraw the cash and then put it in the envelopes. This works because if we spend out of the general account because it's unplanned or for the credit card charges, I just redeposit (or leave in the bank) the money from that envelope. It has really worked out for us to stay on budget better.
We've always kept our non-joint finances separate. He doesn't want to pay for me to get my nails done and I don't want to pay for all his video games and stuff. It's worked out really well for us and keeping it split based on income (he's the higher earner) actually makes it more equitable than a 50/50 or he pays this bill and I pay that bill.
Post by lightbulbsun on Jan 16, 2020 12:16:20 GMT -5
This is a serious problem and will not be solved through separate finances. He literally STOLE money from his own children. If you want to stay married I would seriously look into a therapist to help him figure out the root of his spending problems. If not, then yes, separate your finances ASAP.
I looked at our incomes. I listed our bills. Savings is a bill.
I assigned each of us bills to pay that covered the same percentage of our take home pay. Savings is a bill and is automatically deducted each month to our joint savings account.
Whatever is left over is ours to spend however we see fit.
I agree with everyone who has said that this isn't a joint or separate finances issue. Your DH has a much deeper problem.
Initially, to ensure your $$ is safe, is I would take over EVERYTHING and give him a cash allowance. No CCs at his disposal. Treat him like a child, basically.
Then, continue counseling and see where that gets both of you. Depending on how it goes, then perhaps try to start expanding his role on the financial front.
But - the financial side won't ever be solved until you figure out what is actually going on with him. The fact he took your kids money is... yes, a HUGE HUGE HUGE red flag. And spending $6500 in 2 months??? On what?
I'm going to add too- even if you take everything from him, keep your eyes open for any signs that he's opened his own CCs. Taking your joint ones away is one thing - but if he has a spendin gproblem, he's going to try and find a way to keep spending.
I just read your update and it seems like there might be a much bigger issue going on here. The time for a CTJ talk is right now. He racked up $6500 in 2 months? On what? He stole from your children? Just no. He needs to have NO access to any money other than cash of a pre-determined amount that you give him. I would also put a freeze on your credit, his credit, and your daughters credit. If he does not agree to this, then I don't know what you can do honestly.
I think there are plenty of reasons to have separate finances, but I don’t know that this is one of them. I’d worry that he would not only continue to make disastrous financial decisions, but you would have less visibility to them. His decisions aren’t just affecting him, they’re affecting you. Has he expressed any regret or commitment to spend more responsibly?
This summarizes my thoughts perfectly. I can’t see how doing this will actually help. Now when he over spends he won’t have money for other bills.
My DH and I have monthly allowances and DH goes over a LOT. It bugs me, but he is a grown up and my partner and we can afford it. And he makes more than me. It doesn’t sound like your situation is the same as mine though.
ETA. I missed the update. The advice others have given you is great. I’m sorry you’re going through this. It is serious and counseling is in order because this is not rational behavior.
Even if you “separate” your accounts, you’re married and therefore on the hook for his debts too. If he’s not able to live within a budget now, separate accounts won’t help and you will have even less visibility into what’s going on.
You don't have to tell anyone here the actual "what" that he spends all the money on, but I think it's important to ask yourself if you really know what he is doing with the money. $6,500 is A LOT of money to spend on non-bills in two months. Outside of luxury goods, I am struggling to think of what I could spend that much money on so quickly that is related only to myself (ie. I didn't take the family on a trip, or buy something big for the house) that isn't a much bigger issue relating to some kind of addiction or shady behavior.
I agree that this isn’t a finances problem. Instead of separating the finances, at this point I think you need full control. I’d give him cash weekly allowance and take over all bills and take away the credit cards.
I’d also want an answer for where all this money is going. That’s a lot, and taking change from your kids makes me think there is a lot more going on than a spending problem.
Post by amandakisser on Jan 16, 2020 13:56:20 GMT -5
He apparently has taken money from their banks before because when my daughter got upset and I asked him if he took the money, he got all defensive and reminded her that "last time I borrowed your money, I gave it all back plus a little extra, remember? I'm going to do the same thing this time." He will 100% pay it back but I know he will also expect me to cover it by giving him extra spending money, and, obviously, if he has no money then he should just suck it up and wait the three fucking days until payday. I know part of it was me enabling him because every time he'd ask for more money he'd justify it: "well remember I bought groceries?" or "I went out to get those painting supplies at Home Depot," so I'd reimburse him from my account, reminding him that he still needs to budget accordingly if he needs stuff for the house.
As for what he's purchasing: I can see it all, since I have access to his account. It is literally food (I'm looking at it right now - yesterday wast a pizza place, Cumberland Farms, and the day before was Burger King, a deli, and a gas station, and more of the same last week) things from the convenience store (he chews tobacco so he buys that, or like sunflower seeds), trips to CVS, and wine. He DOES take out cash every week and I'm not sure where that goes, but I honestly don't think he does either, though I won't rule out the possibility that he's spending it on something shady. Hell, I'll even give him my card often when he goes to run errands so he can have more money in his account and not overdraw.
I hate to be so controlling over the money - I honestly do not care what he chooses to spend his own money on (I'd hate it if he scrutinized every purchase I made, which he has never done) but I do have an issue when it starts to affect our kids. Ugh, this sucks, I've had serious anxiety over this for months now. I guess I have to hide my kids' money, too.
Oh, and to add another layer to this (LOL I'm already baring all, might as well keep going): his mother will 100% give him money if he needs it. I've asked her not to because he spends it recklessly, but she laughs it off and says he's just like his father. So he's never had ANY consequences to these actions.
I was resentful before but now I pretty much hate him LOL.
Do not separate finances. You need to take control and he needs to be cash only. If his mom bails him out so be it, but don't let him keep squandering your (and your kids) money. This may mean that you are now the one doing the errands like groceries or whatnot but I would not give him access to the accounts. Cash.Only.
Monitor his credit to make sure he's not hiding debt or opening cards you don't know about.
I hope counseling helps, but he will destroy your marriage if this continues. So protect yourself and your kids.
I think there are plenty of reasons to have separate finances, but I don’t know that this is one of them. I’d worry that he would not only continue to make disastrous financial decisions, but you would have less visibility to them. His decisions aren’t just affecting him, they’re affecting you. Has he expressed any regret or commitment to spend more responsibly?
I will ditto this.
Seperating finances seems like it will cause you to have more work at this point.
I'd continue managing finances and give him his money in cash. Change CC numbers too since he may have them saved in browsers.
I agree with this. He should have no access to any bank accounts, credit cards, debit cards, etc. I would maintain responsibility for paying all bills and give him a set amount of cash per week or month to spend as he wishes and to cover things like gas and other necessary transactions. There is no way in hell I would allow him access to pay bills that affect me.
The fact that you basically have to monitor him like a child is deeply concerning.
Post by NewGirlNic on Jan 16, 2020 14:06:46 GMT -5
$6500 in 2 months HAS to be more than just food, wine and tobacco. Unless he's buying $100+ bottles of wine daily. Especially if he's taking cash out of a bank account in addition to the credit card spending.
I hate to be so controlling over the money - I honestly do not care what he chooses to spend his own money on (I'd hate it if he scrutinized every purchase I made, which he has never done) but I do have an issue when it starts to affect our kids. Ugh, this sucks, I've had serious anxiety over this for months now. I guess I have to hide my kids' money, too.
I don't know, maybe I am a controlling spouse, but I don't think it's wrong to care how your spouse spends their money even if it doesn't impact your kids or your finances directly. Spending habits can easily be indicative of a persons values or identify if there are deeper underlying problems.
I mean, you're saying a lot of it is food, tobacco and wine. Does he have issues with any of those things like a possible eating disorder or drinking problem? To put it into context, $6,500 in two months is almost $750/week. Again, I am struggling to think of something my DH or I could spend that much on that would be healthy and not concerning to the other person outside of large, one-off purchases (which it sounds like is not the case with your DH).
I just read your update and it seems like there might be a much bigger issue going on here. The time for a CTJ talk is right now. He racked up $6500 in 2 months? On what? He stole from your children? Just no. He needs to have NO access to any money other than cash of a pre-determined amount that you give him. I would also put a freeze on your credit, his credit, and your daughters credit. If he does not agree to this, then I don't know what you can do honestly.
This is also a very good suggestion and I would do it, like, immediately.
Do not separate finances. You need to take control and he needs to be cash only. If his mom bails him out so be it, but don't let him keep squandering your (and your kids) money. This may mean that you are now the one doing the errands like groceries or whatnot but I would not give him access to the accounts. Cash.Only.
Monitor his credit to make sure he's not hiding debt or opening cards you don't know about.
I hope counseling helps, but he will destroy your marriage if this continues. So protect yourself and your kids.
Living like this would destroy my marriage. I already have dependents, I don’t need another one. That said it seems like a no brainer for OP to take control here.
We have separate finances because my H is typically shit with money and because when we met I was fiercely independent and obsessed with my life plan which included a detailed retirement plan and impeccable credit score. I still have those things, my H does not lol. He has more money than me so I guess it works out lol. I’m kind enough to save jointly for retirement and our kids education, but for the rest he’s on his own. His bills get paid, he doesn’t fuck with my money, but I don’t control his discretionary spending and I try not to judge haha.
I hate to be so controlling over the money - I honestly do not care what he chooses to spend his own money on (I'd hate it if he scrutinized every purchase I made, which he has never done)
Expecting transparency about how the majority of the money in your relationship is spent is not being controlling.
He isn't spending his "own money." He's spending money that was meant to be used on bills and other things you need for your household and family.
DH and I get $50 a month each to do with as we please. That's our "own" money. Spending $6500 on a credit card in two months is NOT his "own" money unless he's like, a billionaire, which I am guessing is not the case.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Jan 16, 2020 14:17:11 GMT -5
Yeah, he's got something else going on.
I'm sorry. I would probably be reaching out to an expert on how to best protect yourself (and your kids) from any financial damage that may be done with whatever he's got going on. And I'd do it quick.
Seperating finances seems like it will cause you to have more work at this point.
I'd continue managing finances and give him his money in cash. Change CC numbers too since he may have them saved in browsers.
I agree with this. He should have no access to any bank accounts, credit cards, debit cards, etc. I would maintain responsibility for paying all bills and give him a set amount of cash per week or month to spend as he wishes and to cover things like gas and other necessary transactions. There is no way in hell I would allow him access to pay bills that affect me.
The fact that you basically have to monitor him like a child is deeply concerning.
I bolded your last sentence because it is the basis of ALL of our current issues. I am his mother, I do not WANT to be his mother, and I am resentful. It's been an issue for years, and the marriage counseling is my last ditch attempt to fix it before I leave him. It's fucking exhausting and a total turn off.
I agree with this. He should have no access to any bank accounts, credit cards, debit cards, etc. I would maintain responsibility for paying all bills and give him a set amount of cash per week or month to spend as he wishes and to cover things like gas and other necessary transactions. There is no way in hell I would allow him access to pay bills that affect me.
The fact that you basically have to monitor him like a child is deeply concerning.
I
I am truly so sorry. I can't even imagine how stressful all of this is. Please take steps to protect yourself financially and make a plan. I don't know anything about your marriage and it may be fixable, but the things you've mentioned in this thread really make me worry about what you are already on the hook for and I'd hate to see that get worse in the event that you do leave.