Questions 1/17

[beerlover]

Hope people don't mind me creating a new thread. This is not a huge deal in the grand scheme of sleep, we have been pretty lucky so far, but my 3.5 year old has been waking up a full 1-1.5 hours earlier than usual starting last Thursday. He used to sleep 8pm-nearly 8am without fail every night. I WFH so we don't have to get out the door to daycare til he wakes up, so this schedule has always worked well. Now he's coming out of his room at like 6:15-6:30am. He completely disregards the OK to wake clock, so that's been a bust. I've told him he can just play in his room but he'll come out and say he's scared (of the shadows from the sun starting to come up) or some other excuse.

I'm worried he's not getting enough sleep, or is it normal for him to start needing less as he gets older? I'm just confused since it happened all of a sudden.

I wonder if his nap at daycare might be impacting this, but there's no getting around that b/c its required or something. I know he doesn't nap there every day though, just plays quietly. I think their nap/quiet time is like 12:30-2:30 or so. Should I start putting him to bed later to see if he sleeps longer? I really love the 8pm bedtime though, ha. Or suggestions on other strategies to deal with this in the morning so that I get a little extra sleep on weekends? I let him hang out down in the living room the one weekend morning while I grabbed some extra sleep, and he tried to get himself cereal and poured a half gallon of milk on the counter so we might not be ready for that yet lol.

[andi]

Maybe bring some of his favorite toys or books into his room the night before so when he wakes up he can start playing on his own in there. Since he's 3.5 (my son was born 8/22 too!) I think the bedtime is fine.

[Mrs.flang]

My DD1 is 3.5 too and has always been a problem sleeper for us. She sleeps WAY less than that. After months of resisting an 8pm bedtime, we now let her hang out in bed with us until around 9pm. She wakes for the day between 630-7, and takes a 1.5 hour nap at daycare (but no nap on weekends).

So, I think he may not need as much sleep, but I also don't really think pushing back bedtime will help. That's just not how it works IME!

[mskitkat]

Inspired by the working moms post, how do people manage nighttime by themselves with 2 children each needing individual attention? Like, bedtime stories and bathtime? How does this work?

[icedcoffee]

Jan 17, 2020 10:24:31 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Inspired by the working moms post, how do people manage nighttime by themselves with 2 children each needing individual attention? Like, bedtime stories and bathtime? How does this work?

When I have both kids by myself the 3yo "helps" me give the baby a bath.  Then I diaper the baby and put the 3yo into the bath.  While he plays in the bath I get the baby dressed and ready for bed.  Then I get the 3yo dressed and ready for bed.  We read books together in the 3yo's room and tuck him into bed.  Then I take the baby to his room, nurse him and put him down.  Sometimes the baby cries while I attend to the 3yo's bath or getting him dressed, but I basically just ignore him if a paci doesn't work.

[scm1011]

Jan 17, 2020 10:24:31 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Inspired by the working moms post, how do people manage nighttime by themselves with 2 children each needing individual attention? Like, bedtime stories and bathtime? How does this work?

DD (7 months) goes to bed at 6:00pm. I nurse her in the living room while DS (3) plays, and then I turn on the TV and let him watch a show while I bring DD upstairs for books/songs before putting her in her crib. I'm gone 15 minutes max, and DS is pretty trustworthy to leave downstairs alone (he rarely moves off the couch). Then I'm free to do his (longer) bedtime routine at 7pm because the baby is sleeping.

I only bath DD 2x a week right now, and I have DS "help" me. Once she gets a bit bigger I'll bath them together. I figure the same happen with stories once DD stays up later, we'll just all pile into a chair and do it together.

[andi]

Jan 17, 2020 10:24:31 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Inspired by the working moms post, how do people manage nighttime by themselves with 2 children each needing individual attention? Like, bedtime stories and bathtime? How does this work?

Now it's easier because DD can watch a show while I'm putting DS to bed, but when they were younger DD would help me put DS to bed. She would sit next to me in the rocking chair while I fed him or read books. I waited until he was almost a year to bathe them together, but she would sit next to me during this time too. Then she got her own bath/books/bedtime. It wasn't perfect, but it worked well enough. 

[beerlover]

andi, he does have some favorite toys and books in there already. Maybe I need to find a way to give him access to turn his light on so that he can play. It's still pitch dark in there at 6:15 lol. I know I could lock him in until 7 or something too, I just feel bad doing that when he gives us no problems at bedtime or otherwise with sleep besides getting up a tad early.

[shauni27]

Jan 17, 2020 10:46:06 GMT -5 beerlover said:

andi , he does have some favorite toys and books in there already. Maybe I need to find a way to give him access to turn his light on so that he can play. It's still pitch dark in there at 6:15 lol. I know I could lock him in until 7 or something too, I just feel bad doing that when he gives us no problems at bedtime or otherwise with sleep besides getting up a tad early.

If you think that him being scared of the dark is an issue, could you do a wireless lightbulb for his room that you can control from your phone and also set a routine for? We have an Alexa in our son's room, and he is only 2.5 but already knows he can turn the light on by saying "alexa, light on!" You can also create a routine so the light comes on automatically at a certain time or based on something else your son might say, and at a low light level (15% for example so it is not so bright!) and then he can play with his toys in there until his ok to wake clock says he can "come out" and wake you guys.

[beerlover]

shauni27, this is a great idea! I am not sure that he's legitimately scared of the dark, I think it is an excuse to leave the room, because he doesn't seem to have an issue with it at night. However, I actually got a free smart plug with some Amazon purchase over the holidays, so I could plug his lamp into that and control it from my phone so I don't have to get up, and see if he will play in his room then. Genius! A routine definitely needs to be created, as right now I'm just letting him in our bed and putting Blippi (sigh) on the bedroom TV while I try to doze a little more.

[shauni27]

along the theme of sleep questions...

We did SO well with sleep training S when he was an infant. He did wonderfully for the last 2 years basically, with small regressions that would last a week here or there.

But since Thanksgiving there has been SO much going on in our lives that we basically gave all the extra coddling we could and broke all the rules. First S gave up his binkie, so we gave him extra snuggles to fall back asleep. Then he got sick. Extra snuggles. Then we moved. Extra snuggles. Then we had weeks of company and renovations. Extra snuggles. New school and potty training and sickness again--extra snuggles, etc.

It is so bad now. S cannot really fall asleep without us anymore. Part of it is him milking it "mama, i no feel good. mama, i thirsty. mama, i come sleep with you!" but it quickly turns into HYSTERICAL sobbing, violent thrashing, throwing his stuff out of the bed, etc. We go in and calm him down, give him his things back and tell him we will be back in 10 minutes--immediate sobbing, throwing shit, kicking the crib to the point he is then sobbing because he "is hurt" etc.

Some nights it is just 45 minutes of this, with us going back in just a couple of times. Other nights (last night) it was 3 hours. The ONLY thing that would calm him down was falling asleep in my arms. And at that point I just wanted him to sleep since it was so late, I let him. Other things I have tried in the past--sitting on the floor holding his hand until he is asleep, telling him we will be right back, etc, are not working any more.

Further, this repeats when he inevitably wakes up in the night too.

BAsically, we need to start over with sleep training, but it is SO much harder with a 2.5 year old than an infant! My heart breaks when he screams "mama, i need you! Im scared! ouch, I hurt myself! I just want my bunny!" etc. When he was a baby he couldn't say anything lol.

This is turning into a novel, but has anyone else sleep trained a toddler? This has been going on WEEKS now and we are all over it. His sleep is jacked, ours is jacked, etc. We did full CIO when he was a baby but I feel like I will genuinely scare him if we do that now. Do we pop in once to let him know we are here and he is safe, but that we are not going back in again until morning?

(he is still in his crib, so no issue with him getting out of bed.)

[shauni27]

Jan 17, 2020 13:59:07 GMT -5 beerlover said:

shauni27 , this is a great idea! I am not sure that he's legitimately scared of the dark, I think it is an excuse to leave the room, because he doesn't seem to have an issue with it at night. However, I actually got a free smart plug with some Amazon purchase over the holidays, so I could plug his lamp into that and control it from my phone so I don't have to get up, and see if he will play in his room then. Genius! A routine definitely needs to be created, as right now I'm just letting him in our bed and putting Blippi (sigh) on the bedroom TV while I try to doze a little more.

Sorry, that was not clear on my part--the routine is something you can set with alexa so she knows to do XYZ if you turn on the light. So if your son says "alexa, turn on the light" and it is only 6:30 am, a routine can be set up to play him kid songs until a timer goes off saying he can come into bed with you. Does that make sense?

One other thing to note--a smart plug will allow you to turn on and off his light, but not dim the bulb.

[beerlover]

shauni27, haha, I get it now. I had no idea you can do all of that with Alexa! Thanks!

[thoseareradishes]

Ugh shauni27, E has been so difficult at bedtime too. I hoped she would calm down after the excitement/different routine of the holidays wore off, but it's not getting much better. Also, she is trying her hardest to drop nap. It is so hard when she yells hug hugs hugs over and over again, even though I know she just wants me to come back in the room. We've had a few talks about sleeping at night and not yelling, and it actually does help (though she hasn't stopped completely).

My question - if you do quiet time for your kid in their bedroom, how did you go about it? I explained to E that she was going in her room to play/rest/do whatever she wants (haha, within reason kid) so I can shower, and she thought it was great the first day but now just yells for me the entire time. Today I left her in there for an hour, with a few checks. We got an ok to wake clock so I used my phone to put the green light on after an hour and went in and got her. I really need a break, because I'm home with her all day.

[shauni27]

Jan 17, 2020 14:39:37 GMT -5 thoseareradishes said:

Ugh shauni27 , E has been so difficult at bedtime too. I hoped she would calm down after the excitement/different routine of the holidays wore off, but it's not getting much better. Also, she is trying her hardest to drop nap. It is so hard when she yells hug hugs hugs over and over again, even though I know she just wants me to come back in the room. We've had a few talks about sleeping at night and not yelling, and it actually does help (though she hasn't stopped completely).

My question - if you do quiet time for your kid in their bedroom, how did you go about it? I explained to E that she was going in her room to play/rest/do whatever she wants (haha, within reason kid) so I can shower, and she thought it was great the first day but now just yells for me the entire time. Today I left her in there for an hour, with a few checks. We got an ok to wake clock so I used my phone to put the green light on after an hour and went in and got her. I really need a break, because I'm home with her all day.

UGH yes! sage is trying to drop his naps, too. It is killer.

I tried last weekend to do "quiet time" alone in his room and it was a catastrophe. 

I read today about teaching toddlers patience. Start with something they are asking for--a hug, a toy, a snack, etc. Go to give it to them, but at the last second say, "oh wait, I need to get one more thing..." and stop and almost turn around and wait for no more than 3-5 seconds. Then actually give them the item they want and praise them for waiting patiently. So, example:

S wants me to pick him up all the friggin time. I will say, ok and go to reach for him and then say, oh crap, wait, I need grab this one thing first, get the one thing (a glass from the counter, move my phone, check a text, whatever) and then pick him up. Repeat 2-3 times a day going an increasing number of seconds each time. The thought is within a week your kiddo will be learning patience and will be up to 2 minutes without nagging.


I plan to try this out AND a sticker chart for rewarding positive behavior (cleaning up, patience, going to bed without a struggle, etc) and seeing if that helps with some of the shit storm we are dealing with right now. Then maybe he will be more patient at bed time and at naps.

[beerlover]

shauni27, I am sorry you are dealing with these sleep issues. I would be SO frustrated! And like you, I would be inclined to do CIO again but yeah, I'm not sure what that looks like with an older child. Do you happen to have a monitor that you can talk to S through? That might be better than actually going in, talking to him and telling him to lay down and that everything's okay, etc.

thoseareradishes, my kid is trying to drop nap too- when we were home for the long stretch over winter break he maybe napped every 3rd or 4th day. The other days, we did do quiet time. This mainly involved me telling him he had to stay in his room and play in the crib (and gave him some toys and books). And then I would watch him over the monitor from the couch and call him out every time I saw him trying to leave his crib. Occasionally he would still sneak out, and I'd walk him back to his room and repeat. Good times.

[pooh8402]

Jan 17, 2020 10:30:54 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Jan 17, 2020 10:24:31 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Inspired by the working moms post, how do people manage nighttime by themselves with 2 children each needing individual attention? Like, bedtime stories and bathtime? How does this work?

When I have both kids by myself the 3yo "helps" me give the baby a bath.  Then I diaper the baby and put the 3yo into the bath.  While he plays in the bath I get the baby dressed and ready for bed.  Then I get the 3yo dressed and ready for bed.  We read books together in the 3yo's room and tuck him into bed.  Then I take the baby to his room, nurse him and put him down.  Sometimes the baby cries while I attend to the 3yo's bath or getting him dressed, but I basically just ignore him if a paci doesn't work.

This is what I do when my H is out of town. Word for word.

[tacom]

12 hours of overnight sleep plus a (sometimes) nap at 3.5 sounds like a unicorn. I wonder if he just needs less sleep. We’ve never gotten a 12 hour overnight stretch, even in infancy.

I might try to stay the course for another week hoping it’s a fluke. If not then you might have to weigh the pros and cons between a later bedtime or early wakeup

[loira]

shauni27, I would imagine that full CIO would not work on a kid that age. Part of the problem is by then they are able to work themselves up, and I know that with A once she gets too worked up it's scary for her and she can't calm herself down.

Does S have a currency you could use to bribe him to stay in there? Or maybe a super nanny approach might work, where you just calmly go in and put him back down and say "it's time to sleep now", and repeat as necessary without varying the approach.

Hang in there!

[shauni27]

Jan 18, 2020 10:47:29 GMT -5 loira said:

shauni27, I would imagine that full CIO would not work on a kid that age. Part of the problem is by then they are able to work themselves up, and I know that with A once she gets too worked up it's scary for her and she can't calm herself down.

Does S have a currency you could use to bribe him to stay in there? Or maybe a super nanny approach might work, where you just calmly go in and put him back down and say "it's time to sleep now", and repeat as necessary without varying the approach.

Hang in there!

We went with full cry it out. Last night was awful (3 hours) but tonight was much better (Fingers crossed it stays that way!)

[UMaineTeach]

My near 1 year old has 3.5 teeth, but has started grinding them already. Anything we can do besides interrupt the behavior and offer a chew toy to replace the behavior? I can’t catch it 100% of the time, so I’m not sure how much success can be had with inconsistent behavior modification.

Maybe someone’s kid did this, and it went away?

I have a list of dentist recommendations to look into to establish her as a patient, but I haven’t done it yet.

[dcn]

Jan 19, 2020 8:37:28 GMT -5 UMaineTeach said:

My near 1 year old has 3.5 teeth, but has started grinding them already. Anything we can do besides interrupt the behavior and offer a chew toy to replace the behavior? I can’t catch it 100% of the time, so I’m not sure how much success can be had with inconsistent behavior modification.

Maybe someone’s kid did this, and it went away?

I have a list of dentist recommendations to look into to establish her as a patient, but I haven’t done it yet.

My kids both did this. Dentist said it was common, they are getting used to the feeling of teeth etc. they stopped on their own.

[konapoppy]

My girls want to wash their hands approximately 22 out of every 24 hours. I used to be able to keep the lock on the bathroom, but now that we are potty training this is not an option.

Is there an awake clock equivalent for hand washing? Should I just make them sing a song and be done?

[preppy]

Jan 17, 2020 10:24:31 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Inspired by the working moms post, how do people manage nighttime by themselves with 2 children each needing individual attention? Like, bedtime stories and bathtime? How does this work?

It’s a little easier now that my kids are a little older (3 and 4) but honestly it was a shit show for a while when I had a newborn and a 16m old. I didn't do bedtime stories until they were older, I laid out PJs before bath, did super simple dinner quick bath and then right into PJs. Now we do bedtime stories on the couch together so I’m not in two rooms. It’s still tough but DH and I both travel often so we are pretty used to solo evenings.

[isabel]

Jan 17, 2020 10:24:31 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Inspired by the working moms post, how do people manage nighttime by themselves with 2 children each needing individual attention? Like, bedtime stories and bathtime? How does this work?

Are they old enough to bathe together? At 2 and 4, I can put them in the bath together and let them play. When it’s time to get clean, I wash them one at a time, then get them out one at a time and towel them dry. They lay on the floor in one or the other’s bedroom to get lotion on, then I’ll grab pajamas for the younger one and they get into pajamas with my help. Typically each parent takes a kid, but when I’m alone, this works well. I let them each pick one book and will read in one of their rooms with DS1 next to me and DS2 on my lap. After books, DS1 goes to his room while I finish getting DS2 in bed and then I go tuck in DS1. It works well for me, but DS1 is a pretty compliant kid, which helps a lot.

[brooke77]

shauni27 - If you figure out a solution, let me know 😀. Our DSs are the same age and mine also stopped STTN in November. He will sometimes fall asleep on his own but wake up anywhere from 9:30 to 12:30 and cry until I bring him into our bed. Soooooo he’s been pretty much sleeping with me in bed since November.

I am guessing there’s a sleep regression around this age? I am planning on switching him to a bed and hoping that helps.

[isabel]

beerlover, I personally wouldn’t give up on letting him get his own breakfast. My 2 and 4 year olds do this daily. They eat fig bars for breakfast and bring them up to us to open, then they go downstairs, grab a plate, and sit at the table.

If your son eats cereal, you could put it in a container he can open and have a cup of milk in the fridge for him to pour over it. It will require a bit of prep on your part, but he can definitely handle that.

Aside from that, I ditto the smart plug recommendation. We just put one in DS1’s room with a dot and it’s been really nice. At night, Alexa tells DS1 to stop reading and go to sleep. He can control his lamp from bed and he listens to her well, since she’s not us. Lol

[dock]

How often do you pump at work? What about when you first went back?

Normally (based on pre-mat leave) I’m gone either 7a-roughly 5:45p or 6:30a-roughly 5p, unfortunately with a ton of variability.

I have no memory of what I did with DS, plus my schedule was different.

Today DD nursed at 6:30a and I don’t anticipate I’ll see her again until 5:30p. I was thinking to shoot for every 3 hours, or as close as possible to it?

[pandorica]

Jan 20, 2020 9:24:42 GMT -5 dock said:

How often do you pump at work? What about when you first went back?

Normally (based on pre-mat leave) I’m gone either 7a-roughly 5:45p or 6:30a-roughly 5p, unfortunately with a ton of variability.

I have no memory of what I did with DS, plus my schedule was different.

Today DD nursed at 6:30a and I don’t anticipate I’ll see her again until 5:30p. I was thinking to shoot for every 3 hours, or as close as possible to it?

When I first went back at 16 weeks I pumped 4 (!) times because my supply dropped. I've fallen into a good 3x/day schedule. I nurse at 645, leave for daycare, then pick her up at 345 and home by 4

[pandorica]

Can we do sleep training for only MOTN? Bedtime has been pretty good for a while (she's out within 20 minutes, one of us stands there with her and just hold her hand out puts the pacifier back in etc). But she's doing this new thing (regression??) where she's up for hours after her first wake up. She was up for FOUR+ hours last night and I hate everything. MOTN Ferber? We're still room sharing so that makes it a little harder.