Liberal arts degree: Waste of money or practical investment

[NewOrleans]

A study from Georgetown University’s Center on Education and the Workforce finds that over the course of a career, a liberal arts education is remarkably practical, providing a median return on investment 40 years after enrollment that approaches $1 million. The results, searchable and sortable by institution, were released Tuesday.

www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/liberal-arts-education-waste-of-money-or-practical-investment-studys-conclusions-might-surprise-you/2020/01/13/5a197b14-3649-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

[cville]

FUCK YEAH.

--English major, art minor

[rosiebear]

Man, I hope this holds true for my kids’ (a poli sci sophomore and a high school senior accepted to a small liberal arts college) generation, but the move to a gig economy makes me less than optimistic.

[penguingrrl]

Hell yes, says the history major, English and music minor...

[seeyalater52]

Political Science and Gender Studies, here! I loved Liberal Arts and tend to think I’m a good bit better rounded than colleagues who did super specialized programs.

[SusanBAnthony]

Interesting.

Ant more detailed thoughts besides hell yah ?

My mom the history major made $$$$ by going to nursing school so......

[SusanBAnthony]

Jan 19, 2020 20:21:03 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Political Science and Gender Studies, here! I loved Liberal Arts and tend to think I’m a good bit better rounded than colleagues who did super specialized programs.

I'm an engineer and gender studies was my liberal arts focus. I seriously loved it. And I was at a state engineering/ag school so I can only imagine it could be better elsewhere, lolol.

[seeyalater52]

Jan 19, 2020 21:01:20 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Interesting.

Ant more detailed thoughts besides hell yah ?

My mom the history major made $$$$ by going to nursing school so......

For me, critical thinking, public speaking, and writing are the skills that carry me through in my day to day career. I feel like liberal arts is a really great way to build these skills. Facts and content can be learned much more easily than analytical ability in my opinion. For me, being in liberal arts classes gave me the practice I needed to learn this. And being at a small liberal arts college was hugely beneficial to me in terms of access to faculty who cared enough to coach me in the areas I was weak.

[seeyalater52]

Jan 19, 2020 21:02:19 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Jan 19, 2020 20:21:03 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Political Science and Gender Studies, here! I loved Liberal Arts and tend to think I’m a good bit better rounded than colleagues who did super specialized programs.

I'm an engineer and gender studies was my liberal arts focus. I seriously loved it. And I was at a state engineering/ag school so I can only imagine it could be better elsewhere, lolol.

I was at a women’s college and gender studies was fucking awesome: 😂❤️

[StrawberryBlondie]

Jan 19, 2020 21:05:39 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jan 19, 2020 21:02:19 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

I'm an engineer and gender studies was my liberal arts focus. I seriously loved it. And I was at a state engineering/ag school so I can only imagine it could be better elsewhere, lolol.

I was at a women’s college and gender studies was fucking awesome: 😂❤️

I have a close friend who went to Bryn Mawr and has similar raves.

Re the OP: score for my English & Music double major. 🙌

[irishbride2]

Liberal arts 4 lyfe!

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 19, 2020 19:59:50 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

Man, I hope this holds true for my kids’ (a poli sci sophomore and a high school senior accepted to a small liberal arts college) generation, but the move to a gig economy makes me less than optimistic.

The gig economy makes me nervous too but then I also think about how the liberal arts have been a mainstay no matter what kind of profession is considered booming at any given moment.

[cville]

Jan 19, 2020 21:01:20 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Interesting.

Ant more detailed thoughts besides hell yah ?

My mom the history major made $$$$ by going to nursing school so......

Because it teaches you THAT there is more than one way to think and HOW to think in more than one way. Going through life knowing how to build the best zig ever is important in the short term, but in the long term doesn't do you a damn bit of good unless you can zag too.

[goldengirlz]

I have a liberal arts degree and make more money than my H who has a STEM graduate degree. So there’s that.

ETA: Granted, I got pretty lucky and in fairness I do work in a STEM field. I’m also really good at math, if I do say so myself (I do a fair amount of data crunching in my role.) But my ability to write and communicate has been instrumental to my career. If you can’t articulate a vision or rally others around a strategy, it’s very hard to get ahead, even in a STEM role.

[DotAndBuzz]

Yessssss.

And I say this as a science geek who could have had a very degree-specific focus and career, but didn't (well, the first time around), and LOVE liberal arts programs. My first degree was microbiology with a minor in Spanish and Latin American literature, then I went back a few years later for round 2 for a BSN. But I think Liberal Arts programs are even more essential now, with the highly political and divisive nature of our society. The ability to look at information, process it, think about 1) where it came from 2) who it benefits 3) counterpoint argument (which also needs to be evaluated for validity) 4) how it challenges your worldview....those skills transcend disciplines. In science, you don't just read a new article and take it as fact. You HAVE to scrutinize it. You have to be able to present your findings and defend your opinions in journal club, or a meeting, or whatever. Liberal arts teaches you how to think in terms of the big picture, not just your little corner of the world.

[pixy0stix]

Being an English major who has worked primarily in the STEM field - a liberal arts degree is so much more portable than a STEM degree. When things went sideways during the recession, many of my science colleagues lost their jobs and weren't able to flex to get a job in a new field. I saw that in the civil engineer world when I transitioned to government as well.

[mrspez07]

Many of you have mentioned being able to articulate ideas (written and verbal) and be able to think about things differently/more nimbly. If schools offer those types of skill classes (public speaking, business writing, research, etc) as required for classes for everyone, would it achieve the same thing with a more specialized or STEM major, or is there something about the saturation or intensity of the curriculum you feel made the difference?

I got a degree in Landscape Architecture (specialized!) and a minor in history from an ag school. I feel like the minor helped, but so did the standard core classes like public speaking, in making me good at some of those things. I also think that in any career or major, there are people who are just better at public speaking or writing and articulating thoughts well. Some of my LA, Civil and Architect cohorts are terrible at writing narratives, but I’m good at it, so that’s where I ended up. Is it because they didn’t take to the communication stuff or didn’t have the volume of it offered to benefit from it?

[wise_rita]

Unpopular opinion: the first job out of college (or jobs, really) are more important in the long run than the degree itself.

[tres3]

Jan 20, 2020 1:32:30 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Unpopular opinion: the first job out of college (or jobs, really) are more important in the long run than the degree itself.

that's probably why folks from highly selective liberal arts colleges do better.  All the "top" companies still recruit there.  Google, Apple, Microsoft, GE, etc are all recruiting at liberal arts schools that are ranked in the top 25 nationally... they aren't necessarily at your local regional liberal arts college. 

[VillainV]

Jan 20, 2020 0:34:16 GMT -5 mrspez07 said:

Many of you have mentioned being able to articulate ideas (written and verbal) and be able to think about things differently/more nimbly. If schools offer those types of skill classes (public speaking, business writing, research, etc) as required for classes for everyone, would it achieve the same thing with a more specialized or STEM major, or is there something about the saturation or intensity of the curriculum you feel made the difference?

I got a degree in Landscape Architecture (specialized!) and a minor in history from an ag school. I feel like the minor helped, but so did the standard core classes like public speaking, in making me good at some of those things. I also think that in any career or major, there are people who are just better at public speaking or writing and articulating thoughts well. Some of my LA, Civil and Architect cohorts are terrible at writing narratives, but I’m good at it, so that’s where I ended up. Is it because they didn’t take to the communication stuff or didn’t have the volume of it offered to benefit from it?

I got an engineering degree from a public university with a well-regraded liberal arts program, and all engineering students were required to take writing classes and several liberal arts electives. All undergrads also had to do a capstone project. The tough part is that most engineering curricula already require about 120 hours, so by the time you add the electives and writing courses you’re closer to 140, which most students struggle with, pushing engineering programs closer to 5-year programs rather than 4 (making cost 25% higher).

[kadams767]

Jan 20, 2020 1:32:30 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Unpopular opinion: the first job out of college (or jobs, really) are more important in the long run than the degree itself.

I can’t decide if I agree with this or not, and if I do, I think it’s for different reasons.  

I didn’t go to a top liberal arts college, but have a BA and an MA from two different large state universities.  My first job out of undergrad was an admin position at a small company that paid $9/hr.  While it wasn’t a great job and certainly didn’t pay well, I worked hard and learned a lot, both hard and soft skills.  

I am a lawyer now and am part of the hiring team at my firm, which includes hiring the law clerks and summer associates.  I can tell almost immediately with 100% accuracy the applicants (and ultimate hires) who do not have a liberal arts background or who have never held a job that they weren’t specifically educated and trained for like an engineer.  It may be anecdotal, but over the course of my career, I find those people have the most difficulty acclimating into office life and the job.  Most careers are more than just the actual technical skills needed to do the job description and higher success and climbing the ladder (if that’s what you want) depend on the other part.  

[litebright]

Jan 19, 2020 21:05:09 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jan 19, 2020 21:01:20 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Interesting.

Ant more detailed thoughts besides hell yah ?

My mom the history major made $$$$ by going to nursing school so......

For me, critical thinking, public speaking, and writing are the skills that carry me through in my day to day career. I feel like liberal arts is a really great way to build these skills. Facts and content can be learned much more easily than analytical ability in my opinion. For me, being in liberal arts classes gave me the practice I needed to learn this. And being at a small liberal arts college was hugely beneficial to me in terms of access to faculty who cared enough to coach me in the areas I was weak.

This is very true for me as well, as a Literature/German double major with a minor in Theater. And I'll add that that theater minor, which I'm sure my parents pooh-poohed privately and were very glad was only a minor, has been incredibly useful as I moderate panels at industry conferences, moderate webinars for a live audience and conduct on-camera interviews.

In my writing, I have to be able to process a lot of often very technical information very quickly, identify the most important parts, communicate those clearly to my audience (often with some level of translation of the concepts), and retain the knowledge to draw on in my interactions with people in the industry. And don't even get me started on recalling various style guides and grammar for editing. 

I am a liberal arts major who went to a tech/engineering-dominated (but still "liberal arts") school where the liberal arts folks were their own community-within-the-schoool, and now I work in a highly technical industry. I do think that all the exposure to very hard science/engineering-types was useful, though, and contributed positively to me being confident in navigating those topics and also having an understanding of the mindset of the type of folks in the industry who are my main audience. 

[NewOrleans]

We are also seeing so many medical humanities programs, as well as narrative medical and medical anthropology.

[Jalapeñomel]

I have a BFA from a Jesuit liberal arts school and a BS in chem from Purdue, and both degrees have been incredible useful, and I’m glad I have them both.

Had I not gotten the first degree, I would not have learned anything about history or literature other than what I knew from HS (which was virtually nothing).

And I’m fairly certain having both degrees opens doors for me that it wouldn’t if I had only the chem one.

[atexan]

Double major in psychology and philosophy.

It got me into grad school and I'm a psychologist now, so, yeah, useful for me. The philosophy courses were incredibly useful for learning how to think critically and synthesize ideas. Which is what I do every day.

[goldengirlz]

Jan 20, 2020 0:34:16 GMT -5 mrspez07 said:

Many of you have mentioned being able to articulate ideas (written and verbal) and be able to think about things differently/more nimbly. If schools offer those types of skill classes (public speaking, business writing, research, etc) as required for classes for everyone, would it achieve the same thing with a more specialized or STEM major, or is there something about the saturation or intensity of the curriculum you feel made the difference?

I got a degree in Landscape Architecture (specialized!) and a minor in history from an ag school. I feel like the minor helped, but so did the standard core classes like public speaking, in making me good at some of those things. I also think that in any career or major, there are people who are just better at public speaking or writing and articulating thoughts well. Some of my LA, Civil and Architect cohorts are terrible at writing narratives, but I’m good at it, so that’s where I ended up. Is it because they didn’t take to the communication stuff or didn’t have the volume of it offered to benefit from it?

To your last question, I think it’s a bit of both. People naturally gravitate toward what they’re good at. I graduated from a math and science high school but despite all my exposure to science there, I still suck at it.

I don’t think the takeaway is necessarily that all STEM degree folks need to have a dual degree in a liberal arts field. I think the reason people are cheering is that the narrative these days has been that our liberal arts degrees are “useless” or a privileged vanity project — but really, a healthy global economy requires people who have a multitude of skills. It’s okay that not every STEM person is strong in the arts (and vice versa) but the pendulum has swung too far in pushing kids with an aptitude for the latter into more “employable” majors. (But, yes, the people who can flex into both are probably the most employable of all.)

[amberlyrose]

Some of my best hires into our tech focused company have been liberal arts degree grads. When creating technical solutions, you still need someone thinking critically about how those solutions could affect the users.

[kadams767]

Jan 20, 2020 12:08:34 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Jan 20, 2020 0:34:16 GMT -5 mrspez07 said:

Many of you have mentioned being able to articulate ideas (written and verbal) and be able to think about things differently/more nimbly. If schools offer those types of skill classes (public speaking, business writing, research, etc) as required for classes for everyone, would it achieve the same thing with a more specialized or STEM major, or is there something about the saturation or intensity of the curriculum you feel made the difference?

I got a degree in Landscape Architecture (specialized!) and a minor in history from an ag school. I feel like the minor helped, but so did the standard core classes like public speaking, in making me good at some of those things. I also think that in any career or major, there are people who are just better at public speaking or writing and articulating thoughts well. Some of my LA, Civil and Architect cohorts are terrible at writing narratives, but I’m good at it, so that’s where I ended up. Is it because they didn’t take to the communication stuff or didn’t have the volume of it offered to benefit from it?

To your last question, I think it’s a bit of both. People naturally gravitate toward what they’re good at. I graduated from a math and science high school but despite all my exposure to science there, I still suck at it.

I don’t think the takeaway is necessarily that all STEM degree folks need to have a dual degree in a liberal arts field. I think the reason people are cheering is that the narrative these days has been that our liberal arts degrees are “useless” or a privileged vanity project — but really, a healthy global economy requires people who have a multitude of skills. It’s okay that not every STEM person is strong in the arts (and vice versa) but the pendulum has swung too far in pushing kids with an aptitude for the latter into more “employable” majors. (But, yes, the people who can flex into both are probably the most employable of all.)

I agree with so much of this.  A school can require liberal arts gen ed requirements until the cows come home, but if the message consistently given is that they are useless filler and STEM is the be all, end all, it won’t matter.  There needs to be a place for people of all aptitudes in a productive society.

It’s frustrating to constantly get constantly get the message that my years spent in school were worthless.  Especially when it’s coming from high and mighty STEM men who I outearn exponentially.  It’s very convenient that the degrees that became “worthless” are soft fields that seem to be proportionately more female-centric.  So I think this is part of the “hell yes!” trigger response to the article.  

[BlondeSpiders]

I'm a recent college graduate (2019), and I chose a business degree because it was one of the free program options for my AA degree. When I transferred to UW, instead of an additional business concentration I chose a Diversity Studies minor.

I really wish business majors were required to take some of these courses! It's a completely different world and some of these young, future entrepreneurs could really use a dose of humanities in with their finance classes.

[cville]

Jan 20, 2020 14:14:33 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Jan 20, 2020 12:08:34 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

To your last question, I think it’s a bit of both. People naturally gravitate toward what they’re good at. I graduated from a math and science high school but despite all my exposure to science there, I still suck at it.

I don’t think the takeaway is necessarily that all STEM degree folks need to have a dual degree in a liberal arts field. I think the reason people are cheering is that the narrative these days has been that our liberal arts degrees are “useless” or a privileged vanity project — but really, a healthy global economy requires people who have a multitude of skills. It’s okay that not every STEM person is strong in the arts (and vice versa) but the pendulum has swung too far in pushing kids with an aptitude for the latter into more “employable” majors. (But, yes, the people who can flex into both are probably the most employable of all.)

I agree with so much of this.  A school can require liberal arts gen ed requirements until the cows come home, but if the message consistently given is that they are useless filler and STEM is the be all, end all, it won’t matter.  There needs to be a place for people of all aptitudes in a productive society.

It’s frustrating to constantly get constantly get the message that my years spent in school were worthless.  Especially when it’s coming from high and mighty STEM men who I outearn exponentially.  It’s very convenient that the degrees that became “worthless” are soft fields that seem to be proportionately more female-centric.  So I think this is part of the “hell yes!” trigger response to the article.  

This exactly.