Ncep: Voluntary demotion?

[simpsongal]

Has anyone done this? Today was a bad day but it’s been 2 rough years as a manager and I think I need a break. I was happier as a line attorney. I’m good at my job and my bosses love me but I’m 5 times more stressed and it’s not even a big pay premium. So have you done it or considered it? I’m a federal employee fwiw. I’m a 15 and would go to my vacant 14.

ETA- I meant to post in ML but y’all are wicked smart, so happy to hear perspectives. Sorry for the off topic post!

[t]

Jan 29, 2020 18:53:39 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Has anyone done this? Today was a bad day but it’s been 2 rough years as a manager and I think I need a break. I was happier as a line attorney. I’m good at my job and my bosses love me but I’m 5 times more stressed and it’s not even a big pay premium. So have you done it or considered it? I’m a federal employee fwiw. I’m a 15 and would go to my vacant 14.

ETA- I meant to post in ML but y’all are wicked smart, so happy to hear perspectives. Sorry for the off topic post!

I did, after being a department manager for 5 years and overseeing a team of 15. Best thing I ever did for myself professionally. I actually went part-time at the same time, and was able to craft a position that works for me and my org. It was a great move for better balance at home, and less stress overall. Thankful to be in a financial position to be able to step back.

[heyjude]

Do it. I’m watching too many mid career professional women (@all moms BTW) burn out and either quit or seek immediate help or both. 😭

[heyjude]

Jan 29, 2020 19:10:02 GMT -5 t said:

Jan 29, 2020 18:53:39 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Has anyone done this? Today was a bad day but it’s been 2 rough years as a manager and I think I need a break. I was happier as a line attorney. I’m good at my job and my bosses love me but I’m 5 times more stressed and it’s not even a big pay premium. So have you done it or considered it? I’m a federal employee fwiw. I’m a 15 and would go to my vacant 14.

ETA- I meant to post in ML but y’all are wicked smart, so happy to hear perspectives. Sorry for the off topic post!

I did, after being a department manager for 5 years and overseeing a team of 15. Best thing I ever did for myself professionally. I actually went part-time at the same time, and was able to craft a position that works for me and my org. It was a great move for better balance at home, and less stress overall. Thankful to be in a financial position to be able to step back.

Similar; I bought myself Friday’s off a few years ago. I think it’s why I’m still sane. 🤪

[lessel]

Also a fed and also went from a 15 to a 14 last year. PM if you want specifics or have questions. There are definitely pros and cons, but overall I don’t regret it. Happy to share more detail.

[cville]

My dad did this. He was so happy afterwards. He wanted to manage his projects, not tons of people.

[lemoncupcake]

Would you literally be stepping down within your own team? So your current employees would be your peers and your new boss could potentially be one of your current employees?

I wouldn’t have any qualms about going back to be an IC, but there is potential for awkward/messy situations if it’s all on the same team. Certainly not a guarantee, just a risk.

[AAM2012]

I have no opinion on this given it being related to a fed employee and/or an attorney.

Just wanted to give you positive vibes with whatever your decision ends up being!

[simpsongal]

Jan 29, 2020 20:23:29 GMT -5 lemoncupcake said:

Would you literally be stepping down within your own team? So your current employees would be your peers and your new boss could potentially be one of your current employees?

I wouldn’t have any qualms about going back to be an IC, but there is potential for awkward/messy situations if it’s all on the same team. Certainly not a guarantee, just a risk.

yes, within the team I manage. I don’t think it would be terribly messy. Some hiccups I’m sure.

[goldengirlz]

I’m not a lawyer and I’ve never done this, but it’s super common at my company for people to float between manager and IC roles. Not everyone wants to be a manager or has the skill set to be a manager. Some people try it for the experience but then decide they were happier doing IC work, which tends to be splashier/more external-facing. (As far as I know, though, they don’t get a salary band demotion — there are two parallel tracks.) The second-most senior person on our team actually transitioned to an IC role after building a team of 30 or so people.

Good luck with your decision!

[SusanBAnthony]

I moved into a manager role about 4 months ago and it is sooooo hard. I am giving it more time because I figure I am still in the learning curve, but if the stress levels and hours needed to get stuff done stays at this level, I can't do it forever.

[bowies]

My H did this a few years ago and it was a relief, but only in the short term since what he really hated was the government work (this probably won’t apply to you, he’s an engineer). He ended up going private sector and segued into managing a small team which he was fine with, though still not his favorite thing.

This post has me incredibly nervous because I’m mid-career and things are finally starting to ramp up for me professionally. I’ve been interviewing to move up/out and someone clearly tipped off my boss because I suddenly got handed a direct report and a plum project yesterday. It’s been a weird week.

[luckyno7]

@@

When I got pregnant with my 3rd my manager asked if I wanted stay FT or go drop some hours (with a slight demotion). I wasn’t managing people at the time but I’d report to one of my current peers. He knew my H owned his own business and I did the majority of the child stuff. I think he was worried I was going to quit working since I worked because I wanted to not because I had to. He said he’d do whatever I wanted to make it work. My H and I talked it over and because I worked for a large corporation it didn’t make sense for me to keep working as many hours as I did. If my husband could stop doing daycare drop off and start working earlier, any $$ he brought in went straight to our bottom line. It was the best decision I ever made and didn’t hurt my career. I’m back to FT (we had 2 people leave and I was the only one that had the skill set to their job) and still very respected within my department. I’ve been asked to take higher positions but I’ve been very vocal I don’t want to manage people. It’s not my thing. I say if it’s what you want and will make you happy then go for it! The hardest part was when they kept asking for more work that I was compensated for it. I was going to get paid for 34 hours but work 38 every week. Life short...you want to enjoy it and since most of our day is spent working if you can do something you like it’s worth it to me.

[simpsongal]

Jan 29, 2020 21:00:11 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

I moved into a manager role about 4 months ago and it is sooooo hard. I am giving it more time because I figure I am still in the learning curve, but if the stress levels and hours needed to get stuff done stays at this level, I can't do it forever.

im sorry, I hope it gets better. We’ve had agcs of other legal groups wash out with some frequency. It’s just a hard (not necessarily substantively) demanding job.

I appreciate you all weighing in. I came home with so much dread and I couldn’t help but wonder why I’m putting myself through this when there appear to be alternatives. I thought of going part time one day but that didn’t seem possible in my current role.

[formerlyak]

I did a few years ago. I’m not a lawyer though so I can’t speak to career implications. I’m in higher ed admin. I was a VP and it was sucking the life out of me.

@@

I’d spend dinner on my phone or email instead of taking with my kids. I had no energy to even pay attention to things they wanted to tell me. It was not fun. And I was emotionally drained from all the politics.

I took a step back to a director level role at a larger university. So pay was similar but job was considerably less stressful and I usually only have 8 hour days instead of 12 hour days being the norm. I also work from home in my new role. It’s amazing. I’m so much less stressed and feel like I am actually there for my family like I want to be.

[duff]

Not at all the same, but I did step out of a manager position back into an IC role, and eventually changed careers all together.

The area in which I was a manager had massive turnover almost all at once, both above and below me. I ended up taking on more and more and wound up working 80 hour weeks for about a year. When I realized that that was the way it was going to be, I was able to move into an IC position that was a lateral grade.

@@

After I had my DD, who has special needs, my dream job opened up. I've been in that role, also as an IC, for about two and a half years now. I love the work, but it's much more flexible and even though I have busy seasons where I'm pushing 50+ hours, I can do a lot of it at home.

[LoveTrains]

I’m in the process of stepping back from managing two teams to just one team. I currently manage 15 and we are breaking it out into two teams and I’ll keep 5. Like you I’m burnt out and exhausted. I’ve been working 60-80 hour weeks for 2 years and I’m tired.

You have to do what is best for you!!

[stever]

My H did this early in his career and has never regretted it.

[taratru]

I'm taking a reduced contract next year by dropping the last class of the day twice a week. It's mostly because it's a schoolwide class I don't agree with, but also because I'm damn tired.

[raangoli]

In general do you think you would look back on your life and regret that you missed out on things in your non-work life because you were miserable, stressed and too tired to enjoy it? If yes, then I’d take the step back.

I’ve been starting focus more on what matters to me and if work isn’t one of those things, then I’m ok with less of a role.

[yentl]

I haven't done this, but a colleague at my previous job did. He seemed so much happier once he walked away from the administrative side of things and could focus more on clinical work.

Sometimes we get so caught up in titles/pay/etc that we don't really consider if a role is a good fit.

[simpsongal]

that does sound weird bowies - is the project and report enough to make you reconsider leaving?

I feel a little bad b/c I know my team and clients would be very disappointed at this move, but I've given plenty to this role and done A LOT in 2 years. I'm not closing the door on management, but I want a chance to do the work again and take a break from the managerial stuff.

raangoli, I don't think I'd regret it - I envy the freedom of my line attorneys.

[candreco]

Also a fed, currently maxed out in my 14-equivalent job. I've been approached about 15-level billets, but there is so little incentive financially that it's not worth the boatload of extra stress and hassle that comes with those jobs, at least at my command. I very much enjoy the work I do, I've got a lot of flexibility that is really important for work-life balance, and the small increase in money wouldn't really affect anything for me.

So while I haven't taken a step back, I do know people who have (mostly contracting officers and lawyers) because the govt does a terrible job incentivizing people to take management jobs, and it worked out well for them.

[Deleted]

I did this from a 13 to a 12, but I was only a 13 for 2 weeks. In my case it was so that I could move. There are things I regret about it - I liked the 13 job more, and unfortunately I now have very few promotion opportunities. All that said, my quality of life today is so much higher than it would’ve been if I’d stayed in DC so I could keep the 13.

The good news is that since you’ve been where you’re at for 2 years, you’re still eligible for promotions and details that require having been there. I didn’t realize how many opportunities would be foreclosed to me because I don’t have 52 weeks at a 13.

[atarianna]

I didn’t take a demotion within my company, but did change jobs and took a considerable pay cut. It’s not entirely the same thing, but similar.

When I did it, I went from a 100% travel position to a 3 mile commute and took about a 20% pay cut. It was the best thing I ever did for myself and my sanity and would absolutely do it again.

If you’re not happy, I would consider it. It may not be the smart lean-in decision, but life isn’t black and white. As I’ve matured, I realize that job flexibility is worth more to me than any dollar amount.

[tessalb]

H did this over a year ago. He left one company as a manager and went back to an account exec in sales. He hated managing people (and realized there is less money in management). He is much happier in the role he is in now.

Don’t discount job satisfaction. If you will be happier in the other role, I’d go for it, especially if the pay difference isn’t much.

[gt7301b]

I haven't done this exactly, but I finished up a year long detail as a manager and have consciously stepped into a technical position that I love.  I could probably go back to that role with little trouble, but I love where I am now.  While I have a small child at home I want to continue in this role rather than actively pursuing a management role.  I know it sounds naive, but I was surprised at home much time all the administrative duties took.  I am lucky that the position I am now in feels like it was made for me, but I'm not sure I would realize that without the previous detail.  

[simpsongal]

Thanks all - this is helpful perspective. BirdGirl, unfortunately, we don't have a lot of non supervisory 15s for lawyers. I don't think I want to leave my agency - I've been there since law school and the thought of starting over feels exhausting too. I interviewed a few places over the past couple years. It's funny, I qualified for some of the interviews b/c of my title, but when I interviewed they were concerned that I spent more time managing than doing the work....

[Mimi]

I'm in a science/R&D male-dominated field. I have a good shot of leading our team of 8 (I'm the only female) when my manager retires in a year or two. I've been thinking if I should work toward it or not. I'm leaning towards 'no'. I don't think I can handle more responsibility/headache and possibly more hours. The pay difference isn't much.

[ssmjlm]

The only way it would be possible would be if you applied and were selected for the demotion in my office. We normally do not name select for that type of move.

I've only seen it happen once and it wasn't pretty. And it was a 13 to a 12.

Honestly I think our chief attorney probably has the easiest 15 job in our office. But the last one didn't really manage and made a bunch of hiring mistakes, so maybe the bar was just set really low?