I wonder if the FA wasn't siding with the guy, but trying to de-escalate the situation by asking her to sit forward and giving the guy free drinks. I'm sure it felt like the FA was siding with the guy to the woman, but if I was the FA and I had a volatile guy I'd ask the lady to do the simplest solution.
I read somewhere that the woman was actually "written up", like a disturbance notice orsumshit.
Which makes me wonder what she did before or after filming. I'm not both siding this, because the guy was clearly in the wrong for punching her. I think all the stuff that happened around that, such as the FA's behavior, we can't just take on her word.
A man would have 100 percent reclined and this douche probably wouldn't have done a thing. Women are just expected to be as tiny as possible, take up no space and inconvenience no one, so in his mind, his comfort takes precedence over hers.
THIS is 100% true. I remember flying alone once and stuck in a middle seat between 2 men who were flying together. They were both man spreading, taking up both armrests and having a full on conversation over me. I realized they were together and asked if they wanted to switch to sit nex to each other and they said no, they booked it that way on purpose. I spent the entire flight shrinking as much as possible. It was awful being stuck between them the whole flight. Fucking asshole entitled white men.
Which makes me wonder what she did before or after filming. I'm not both siding this, because the guy was clearly in the wrong for punching her. I think all the stuff that happened around that, such as the FA's behavior, we can't just take on her word.
I read somewhere that the FA told her to delete the video and, if that's the case, she obviously refused. I assume that's what happened, although we obviously can't know for sure.
OK I will give the other side. I was on a plane once and the guy in front of me reclined his chair all the way back the entire trip. I was so uncomfortable. I wanted to hit him.
Post by formerlyak on Feb 14, 2020 14:29:37 GMT -5
I'm team recline if you can. I have to recline on flights because of a medical issue. If I do not, the way that the seat backs are shaped and the fact that I am short means I end up sitting with my chin pointed down toward my chest for the flight causing issues in my neck that result in severe migraine. Just looking at me, team non-recliners probably think, "What the hell does that short little person need to recline for? She doesn't need extra room!" But sometimes there are issues you can't see. The recline on the seat allows me to keep my neck in a neutral position.
I do agree that you don't need to violently slam back into the recline position, or let your seat jerk up when you go back to the upright position.
Which makes me wonder what she did before or after filming. I'm not both siding this, because the guy was clearly in the wrong for punching her. I think all the stuff that happened around that, such as the FA's behavior, we can't just take on her word.
I read somewhere that the FA told her to delete the video and, if that's the case, she obviously refused. I assume that's what happened, although we obviously can't know for sure.
It's in the link I posted, where the only information available is from the woman.
The only time I have been truly annoyed with someone reclining was when I was flying with K on my lap as a baby. It made it challenging to reach the diaper bag and he before we even took off, he gave her a nasty look. BUt i did not saying anything because it is what it is.
Otherwise, I don't mind. I tend to only recline a little, not the full amount.
Post by sapphireblue on Feb 14, 2020 16:16:46 GMT -5
The guy is a total jerk but I would be very angry at the airline and the flight attendant/s also.
There will be assholes on planes and the flight attendant/s should have addressed his behavior. Even if he didn't have a lot of room, etc. his behavior was inappropriate and the FA should have handled that.
Perhaps the flight attendant should have found a big guy on the flight and offered HIM free drinks as an incentive if he would switch seats with the woman.
Agreed. Aside from the violence and intimidation, the entitlement is really galling. Who the fuck does he think he is, if he booked later or paid a lower fare that didn’t allow seat selection or whatever, to expect another person to “trade” that with him.
I have, on occasion, traded seats with someone when asked, like when I got an exit row seat I didn’t pay extra for, or when a family couldn’t book seats together. But they weren’t entitled to it, and if they were an asshole I would have said no.
The guy is a jerk no doubt but I really think you are reaching here. If he wasn't a white male you would not describe his actions as violent. (Insert giant eye roll)
Dragging up from page 2: if he was a non-white male I think he'd be arrested upon landing.
OK I will give the other side. I was on a plane once and the guy in front of me reclined his chair all the way back the entire trip. I was so uncomfortable. I wanted to hit him.
Did you hit him? repeatedly? If not, then why not?
I do not understand the other side of the argument. She should be uncomfortable, so he can be comfortable? If the person in front of her reclined, she's expected to just deal with it? If this had been a guy who reclined, would this guy do the same thing?
I cannot go to Twitter...what is the airline doing, if anything?
Yeah, I want to know how the airline is responding? Because they should have shut this shit down.
The airline reprimanded her for recording the incident and gave his ass a free drink!
Post by rupertpenny on Feb 15, 2020 11:18:15 GMT -5
This guy is obviously in the wrong. I don’t recline often, but I don’t understand getting so angry about it.
Honestly I think a lot of people need to lower their expectations about air travel. It sucks. The seats are small, the food is bad, strangers do gross stuff. But you are only on the plane so long, it will land soon and everything will be ok. I don’t understand getting so worked over the extremely temporary annoyance of having the person in front of you recline.
Post by sunnysally on Feb 15, 2020 11:37:05 GMT -5
The only time I get really pissed about reclining is during meal service. I think it is common courtesy to put your seat up and leave it up until the tray is cleared. Even then, I would never punch someone's seat if they didn't put their seat up.
This guy is obviously in the wrong. I don’t recline often, but I don’t understand getting so angry about it.
Honestly I think a lot of people need to lower their expectations about air travel. It sucks. The seats are small, the food is bad, strangers do gross stuff. But you are only on the plane so long, it will land soon and everything will be ok. I don’t understand getting so worked over the extremely temporary annoyance of having the person in front of you recline.
Yes. Airplanes used to be luxury in the skies...and vastly more infrequently used. Now people want the convenience of a direct flight from, like, Kankakee to Sacramento at low cost with the comfort of a king size bed, a gourmet meal, and Broadway-quality entertainment. In a metal tube hurtling through the air, safely.
Could airlines do better? Yes. Did deregulation have an outsized impact on comfort? Absolutely. But expectations for flying are now nearly totally divorced from reality.
Not to mention that flying is enormously carbon intensive and more people + fewer bags per flight = better (albeit marginally) for the environment.
Which makes me wonder what she did before or after filming. I'm not both siding this, because the guy was clearly in the wrong for punching her. I think all the stuff that happened around that, such as the FA's behavior, we can't just take on her word.
I was on a flight recently where a disturbance happened and people began to record it.
The flight attendants told all of us to stop recording and that its again airline regulations to use recording devices on planes. Personally I found this "regulation" to be bullshit but I would guess this is what she got the fine for.
Which makes me wonder what she did before or after filming. I'm not both siding this, because the guy was clearly in the wrong for punching her. I think all the stuff that happened around that, such as the FA's behavior, we can't just take on her word.
I was on a flight recently where a disturbance happened and people began to record it.
The flight attendants told all of us to stop recording and that its again airline regulations to use recording devices on planes. Personally I found this "regulation" to be bullshit but I would guess this is what she got the fine for.
In a situation like this I would definitely be recording. F that noise.
Also I'm team never recline unless it's an overnight flight. Reclining is for assholes.
This guy is obviously in the wrong. I don’t recline often, but I don’t understand getting so angry about it.
Honestly I think a lot of people need to lower their expectations about air travel. It sucks. The seats are small, the food is bad, strangers do gross stuff. But you are only on the plane so long, it will land soon and everything will be ok. I don’t understand getting so worked over the extremely temporary annoyance of having the person in front of you recline.
Yes. Airplanes used to be luxury in the skies...and vastly more infrequently used. Now people want the convenience of a direct flight from, like, Kankakee to Sacramento at low cost with the comfort of a king size bed, a gourmet meal, and Broadway-quality entertainment. In a metal tube hurtling through the air, safely.
Could airlines do better? Yes. Did deregulation have an outsized impact on comfort? Absolutely. But expectations for flying are now nearly totally divorced from reality.
Not to mention that flying is enormously carbon intensive and more people + fewer bags per flight = better (albeit marginally) for the environment.
I’m not sure I agree with this. I don’t think you need to go all the way back to the Golden Age of Travel to say flying has gotten significantly worse.
Premium economy is now the most profitable section of the plane (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/41866d20-11f3-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae). It’s probably not a coincidence that the standard offering has gotten a big downgrade — even compared to a decade or two ago — in order to convert people (especially the most profitable business/frequent travelers) into the premium offering. And it’s only expected to get worse (the Skyrider stand-up seats debuted at a recent airline expo, anyone?)
The optimistic way of looking at it is that flying is cheaper than ever so it’s more accessible than ever. But I feel uncomfortable being like, just take your $200 standing seat and be happy about it, Karen.
Yes, flying is terrible for the environment. Yes, we should try to cut back when we can. But this is 100% about capitalism, and if airlines cared about being green, they would be investing more in developing fuel efficient planes, not just stacking people on top of each other.
Yes. Airplanes used to be luxury in the skies...and vastly more infrequently used. Now people want the convenience of a direct flight from, like, Kankakee to Sacramento at low cost with the comfort of a king size bed, a gourmet meal, and Broadway-quality entertainment. In a metal tube hurtling through the air, safely.
Could airlines do better? Yes. Did deregulation have an outsized impact on comfort? Absolutely. But expectations for flying are now nearly totally divorced from reality.
Not to mention that flying is enormously carbon intensive and more people + fewer bags per flight = better (albeit marginally) for the environment.
I’m not sure I agree with this. I don’t think you need to go all the way back to the Golden Age of Travel to say flying has gotten significantly worse.
Premium economy is now the most profitable section of the plane (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/41866d20-11f3-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae). It’s probably not a coincidence that the standard offering has gotten a big downgrade — even compared to a decade or two ago — in order to convert people (especially the most profitable business/frequent travelers) into the premium offering. And it’s only expected to get worse (the Skyrider stand-up seats debuted at a recent airline expo, anyone?)
The optimistic way of looking at it is that flying is cheaper than ever so it’s more accessible than ever. But I feel uncomfortable being like, just take your $200 standing seat and be happy about it, Karen.
Yes, flying is terrible for the environment. Yes, we should try to cut back when we can. But this is 100% about capitalism, and if airlines cared about being green, they would be investing more in developing fuel efficient planes, not just stacking people on top of each other.
I didn't say take your standing seat and be happy with it? In fact, I said airlines can and should do better and that lack of comfort is a direct result of deregulation. Which allows for things like premium comfort to flourish.
But if people compared their expected comfort on airlines to their expected comfort on a bus as opposed to their expected comfort in their living room, people might be less likely to punch the back of a the seat of someone who reclined.
I don't understand why people think she is an asshole for reclining her seat. You know damn well this guy would recline his seat if he were in a different row. And then where does it stop? If the person in front of her reclines their seat, you're just moving the problem. People have a right to use the full functionality of their seat. If this is an issue, airlines should remove reclining seats or provide more room.
And he'd still be an asshole if he reclined. And I'd still call him an asshole. And dig my knees into the seat. Because I don't need to be compressed even tighter SO THAT YOU CAN NAP BETTER, CHAD.
Don't recline.
The airlines suck and have taken your space so now when you recline you are taking someone else's space. If you need more space pay for economy plus.
Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should.
This attitude is so crappy and one of the reasons my anxiety with travel has increased. You literally have no idea why I need to recline my seat. It's not so I can "nap better" it's so I can actually walk when the plane lands. And yes, I usually pay for premium or use miles for first/business when I can but things happen. This flight I got bumped from premium and the airline had no cares and would do nothing to fix it. So due to people like you I stress for weeks about it. I get people reclining can be uncomfortable, but they are not doing it at you. People are doing it for a reason. Go ahead and dig your knees into my back. It says more about you then me.
I’m not sure I agree with this. I don’t think you need to go all the way back to the Golden Age of Travel to say flying has gotten significantly worse.
Premium economy is now the most profitable section of the plane (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/41866d20-11f3-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae). It’s probably not a coincidence that the standard offering has gotten a big downgrade — even compared to a decade or two ago — in order to convert people (especially the most profitable business/frequent travelers) into the premium offering. And it’s only expected to get worse (the Skyrider stand-up seats debuted at a recent airline expo, anyone?)
The optimistic way of looking at it is that flying is cheaper than ever so it’s more accessible than ever. But I feel uncomfortable being like, just take your $200 standing seat and be happy about it, Karen.
Yes, flying is terrible for the environment. Yes, we should try to cut back when we can. But this is 100% about capitalism, and if airlines cared about being green, they would be investing more in developing fuel efficient planes, not just stacking people on top of each other.
I didn't say take your standing seat and be happy with it? In fact, I said airlines can and should do better and that lack of comfort is a direct result of deregulation. Which allows for things like premium comfort to flourish.
But if people compared their expected comfort on airlines to their expected comfort on a bus as opposed to their expected comfort in their living room, people might be less likely to punch the back of a the seat of someone who reclined.
The comfort on an airline is worse than Amtrak and regional bus carriers by some measures. (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/18471389)
I take buses and trains all the time when I’m traveling regionally around New York/the Northeast corridor — and for something like $40-90 you get free WiFi as well as free snacks and hot drinks. Not to mention plenty of legroom. So even if bus travel is the standard, many airlines aren’t doing too hot in comparison.
I didn't say take your standing seat and be happy with it? In fact, I said airlines can and should do better and that lack of comfort is a direct result of deregulation. Which allows for things like premium comfort to flourish.
But if people compared their expected comfort on airlines to their expected comfort on a bus as opposed to their expected comfort in their living room, people might be less likely to punch the back of a the seat of someone who reclined.
The comfort on an airline is worse than Amtrak and regional bus carriers by some measures. (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/18471389)
I take buses and trains all the time when I’m traveling regionally around New York/the Northeast corridor — and for something like $40-90 you get free WiFi as well as free snacks and hot drinks. Not to mention plenty of legroom. So even if bus travel is the standard, many airlines aren’t doing too hot in comparison.
I was on a flight recently where a disturbance happened and people began to record it.
The flight attendants told all of us to stop recording and that its again airline regulations to use recording devices on planes. Personally I found this "regulation" to be bullshit but I would guess this is what she got the fine for.
In a situation like this I would definitely be recording. F that noise.
Also I'm team never recline unless it's an overnight flight. Reclining is for assholes.
We were flying to Hawaii for Christmas.
At first, I was all "Fight the man! I'm recording"
Then my husband pointed out they could still turn the plane around back to LAX and we would ALL miss our vacays in Paradise. 😐🤔
I quickly changed tune to just facing forward and staying calm lol.
Delta president says she should have asked and even though he is tall he “never reclines” 🙄 which is prob because he doesn’t fly commercial (that part is my opinion)
Delta president says she should have asked and even though he is tall he “never reclines” 🙄 which is prob because he doesn’t fly commercial (that part is my opinion)
Delta president says she should have asked and even though he is tall he “never reclines” 🙄 which is prob because he doesn’t fly commercial (that part is my opinion)
Delta president says she should have asked and even though he is tall he “never reclines” 🙄 which is prob because he doesn’t fly commercial (that part is my opinion)
He also said she had the right to recline. That doesn't sound too different than what a lot of other people said.
But also, like, of course he doesn't have to recline in first class. Because...he's definitely only ever flying first class no matter what this article says about him flying coach. Lol.
Delta president says she should have asked and even though he is tall he “never reclines” 🙄 which is prob because he doesn’t fly commercial (that part is my opinion)
Maybe they should consider NOT making the seats recline instead of expecting everyone to magically follow some unwritten rule?
Have you ever flown RyanAir? Their seats don’t recline at all. It’s pure hell. I’d prefer if they all reclined at a slight fixed angle to make the more comfortable, but they literally chose the most uncomfortable angle they could.
Maybe they should consider NOT making the seats recline instead of expecting everyone to magically follow some unwritten rule?
Have you ever flown RyanAir? Their seats don’t recline at all. It’s pure hell. I’d prefer if they all reclined at a slight fixed angle to make the more comfortable, but they literally chose the most uncomfortable angle they could.
Slight fixed angle works for me! It just seems stupid to make them adjustable and then get all pissy when people use them that way.
Maybe they should consider NOT making the seats recline instead of expecting everyone to magically follow some unwritten rule?
Have you ever flown RyanAir? Their seats don’t recline at all. It’s pure hell. I’d prefer if they all reclined at a slight fixed angle to make the more comfortable, but they literally chose the most uncomfortable angle they could.
I remember being on a plane years ago but I can't recall for the life of me what airline. But I remember their seats did NOT recline but they were at a slight recline that was actually comfortable and I ddin't feel the need to recline more. It was great.
Spirit Air? Insanely uncomfortable. Flew them once. Never again.
It's worth pointing out that airlines don't design and manufacture airplanes, it's the likes of Boeing and Airbus that do. Airlines buy (or increasingly lease) their fleet from them.
The manufacturers design a product that allows their customer, the airline, to extract as much profit as possible from their customers (in this case, passengers). They also make planes for cargo and who knows whatever other purpose.
There's a whole supply chain here, and basic economy passengers, sorry to say, are at the very bottom of the food chain.