They are tipped employees, but I’ll be sure to ask that. Listen I get that nothing I say is right, I've caught on.
Well, policies that allow tipped workers to be payed less than minimum wage are a whole other problem. (I realize you didn't specify food service, but that's what I'm reading into it.) Of course someone whose income is partially dependent on tips is not anxious to come back to a restaurant, salon, valet stand, or wherever they work if the customers aren't coming. Those people are between a rock and a hard place - come back to work for a fraction of what they made before, possibly without reliable childcare, at risk of exposure to the virus - or decline to return and risk losing UI benefits. It's a shitty position to be in.
For sure - if a server was good at their job and worked at a nice restaurant they could make good money. But now that 1) the restaurant is capped at 25% capacity and 2) people don’t have discretionary money to spend they wouldn’t be able to make the same wages if they went back to work.
Well, policies that allow tipped workers to be payed less than minimum wage are a whole other problem. (I realize you didn't specify food service, but that's what I'm reading into it.) Of course someone whose income is partially dependent on tips is not anxious to come back to a restaurant, salon, valet stand, or wherever they work if the customers aren't coming. Those people are between a rock and a hard place - come back to work for a fraction of what they made before, possibly without reliable childcare, at risk of exposure to the virus - or decline to return and risk losing UI benefits. It's a shitty position to be in.
For sure - if a server was good at their job and worked at a nice restaurant they could make good money. But now that 1) the restaurant is capped at 25% capacity and 2) people don’t have discretionary money to spend they wouldn’t be able to make the same wages if they went back to work.
Don’t forget 3) are people even coming in? I know around here some restaurants that are open aren’t seeing anyone come.
Employers are calling to report those who will not return to work. I wonder if it is childcare issues on top of being afraid. No one will be falsely getting these benefits. States are checking, employers are reporting, and I’m sure butt hurt coworkers are too.
Post by amandakisser on May 13, 2020 9:44:07 GMT -5
Lest we forget that many of these families with school-aged children were receiving free or reduced lunches. So on top of needed to be home to provide childcare, they now need to spend more money on food to make sure their children are fed. And food prices are skyrocketing, some food is scarce, etc. I look at how much my grocery bills are increasing, and I'm lucky because I can afford an extra $50-100/week on food. I cannot imagine how stressful it is for families who aren't making a living wage.
But please, let's have the children starve just to make sure their lazy parents aren't cheating the system.
I do know one person who you might say "finagled" the system by taking a voluntary furlough so they could collect UI plus the extra $600. But, who knows if it will end up biting them in butt if they aren't given their job back at the end of the furlough, or it extends beyond the CARES act. But for every one person, who *maybe* doesn't need the money (who am I to judge), there are probably 50 where that $600 means making sure they can feed their family, or continue to pay rent, or pay their car payment or whatever. There are always going to be people that exploit the system, even if its returning something you wore 7500 times to LL Bean. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be in place for the thousands/millions of others who need them.
😒 this idea also grinds my gears.
Voluntary furlough is offered where I work too. Its OFFERED because right now they requiring the minimum but know that any volunteers helps our budget enormously, and if you are furloughed then you are able to take unemployment benefits. So (again) no they aren't abusing in working the system. Them taking more unpaid leave helps their business. What's the alternative in your mind? Get nothing for that volunteer time? Its a give and take.
Like seeyalater52 said, perpetuating these ideas that a person is "finagling" the system is again putting out a stereotype and quite frankly, you sound like you don't know what you are talking about because each one of these choices comes with multiple pros and cons. Not just money.
I do know one person who you might say "finagled" the system by taking a voluntary furlough so they could collect UI plus the extra $600. But, who knows if it will end up biting them in butt if they aren't given their job back at the end of the furlough, or it extends beyond the CARES act. But for every one person, who *maybe* doesn't need the money (who am I to judge), there are probably 50 where that $600 means making sure they can feed their family, or continue to pay rent, or pay their car payment or whatever. There are always going to be people that exploit the system, even if its returning something you wore 7500 times to LL Bean. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be in place for the thousands/millions of others who need them.
😒 this idea also grinds my gears.
Voluntary furlough is offered where I work too. Its OFFERED because right now they requiring the minimum but know that any volunteers helps our budget enormously, and if you are furloughed then you are able to take unemployment benefits. So (again) no they aren't abusing in working the system. Them taking more unpaid leave helps their business. What's the alternative in your mind? Get nothing for that volunteer time? Its a give and take.
Like seeyalater52 said, perpetuating these ideas that a person is "finagling" the system is again putting out a stereotype and quite frankly, you sound like you don't know what you are talking about because each one of these choices comes with multiple pros and cons. Not just money.
These "I know a guy" anecdotes are tiring.
And if furlough is so great - volunteer to be furloughed yourself!
Voluntary furlough is being offered because companies are struggling to afford to pay their workers. If people don’t volunteer for furlough people will likely be subject to required furloughs or layoffs. And those people won’t have any choice at all and are often the most vulnerable workers with the least access to financial safety nets.
If Congress didn’t want furloughed workers to be eligible for enhanced UI they could have easily written the bill that way. There’s no finagling needed. This is what the money is for.
I do know one person who you might say "finagled" the system by taking a voluntary furlough so they could collect UI plus the extra $600. But, who knows if it will end up biting them in butt if they aren't given their job back at the end of the furlough, or it extends beyond the CARES act. But for every one person, who *maybe* doesn't need the money (who am I to judge), there are probably 50 where that $600 means making sure they can feed their family, or continue to pay rent, or pay their car payment or whatever. There are always going to be people that exploit the system, even if its returning something you wore 7500 times to LL Bean. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be in place for the thousands/millions of others who need them.
😒 this idea also grinds my gears.
Voluntary furlough is offered where I work too. Its OFFERED because right now they requiring the minimum but know that any volunteers helps our budget enormously, and if you are furloughed then you are able to take unemployment benefits. So (again) no they aren't abusing in working the system. Them taking more unpaid leave helps their business. What's the alternative in your mind? Get nothing for that volunteer time? Its a give and take.
Like seeyalater52 said, perpetuating these ideas that a person is "finagling" the system is again putting out a stereotype and quite frankly, you sound like you don't know what you are talking about because each one of these choices comes with multiple pros and cons. Not just money.
These "I know a guy" anecdotes are tiring.
I'm sorry, my post came across wrong. I do not think this person is doing anything wrong, or taking advantage of anything, or abusing the system. I only meant to say, from the outside it may look like they are, but you don't know the circumstances that led them there or what will come after. There is no guarantee of anything regarding returning to work so I fully support them collecting. And yes, I am grateful to the people who were able to take voluntary furloughs because it meant I could keep my job.
also adding my first post, my "you" was not a collective you, but rather distinctly to the OP and others that agreed.
Post by sofamonkey on May 13, 2020 11:16:10 GMT -5
Also, where are medical coats in all of this? If I’m unemployed, I don’t have benefits. So, maybe putting so of that money in savings for when something goes awry isn’t careless.
I’m furloughed, with no damn clue about when we might be able to open. My company is paying both halves of our medical if we had it through them. But a lot of companies aren’t in that position, or even close. And a straight layoff means you’re eligible for cobra, but you have to pay both halves. That cost is HUGE to an out of work person.
Also, if they needed food bank support before, they likely are still struggling because food banks are struggling.
Bottom line, some people are being assholes about this. Just stop it.
sofamonkey, Up First from NPR this morning reported that there are probably 26 million Americans who are newly uninsured right now. And about 6 million of them won't qualify for medicaid, an Obamacare exchange plan, or other insurance benefits.
sofamonkey, Up First from NPR this morning reported that there are probably 26 million Americans who are newly uninsured right now. And about 6 million of them won't qualify for medicaid, an Obamacare exchange plan, or other insurance benefits.
I can verify that this is correct, and it’s a crisis of epic proportions.
And for those who do qualify, many of their options for insurance coverage are expensive as fuck.
Employers are calling to report those who will not return to work. I wonder if it is childcare issues on top of being afraid. No one will be falsely getting these benefits. States are checking, employers are reporting, and I’m sure butt hurt coworkers are too.
@@@ Childcare issues is a legitimate reason to refuse work according to the CARES Act. They should still be eligible for UI.
It is, but that doesn’t stop assholes from reporting them falsely. They could potentially become unemployed and without UI. I don’t put anything past the jerks who are reporting in this time
sofamonkey , Up First from NPR this morning reported that there are probably 26 million Americans who are newly uninsured right now. And about 6 million of them won't qualify for medicaid, an Obamacare exchange plan, or other insurance benefits.
I can verify that this is correct, and it’s a crisis of epic proportions.
And for those who do qualify, many of their options for insurance coverage are expensive as fuck.
And I can verify this from the perspective of a newly uninsured person. We were fortunately able to sign up for an Obamacare plan, but I was shocked at the prices. We had an Obamacare plan three years ago and were able to get a silver plan for hundreds a month less than our current plan, which is the very cheapest bronze plan offered in our state.
So now we're crossing our fingers that we won't have a major medical emergency (DURING A PANDEMIC) because our OOP max is over $16k per year. Oh, and our deductible is more than $13k per year. It's essentially catastrophic coverage that costs over $1k a month.
I can verify that this is correct, and it’s a crisis of epic proportions.
And for those who do qualify, many of their options for insurance coverage are expensive as fuck.
And I can verify this from the perspective of a newly uninsured person. We were fortunately able to sign up for an Obamacare plan, but I was shocked at the prices. We had an Obamacare plan three years ago and were able to get a silver plan for hundreds a month less than our current plan, which is the very cheapest bronze plan offered in our state.
So now we're crossing our fingers that we won't have a major medical emergency (DURING A PANDEMIC) because our OOP max is over $16k per year. Oh, and our deductible is more than $13k per year. It's essentially catastrophic coverage that costs over $1k a month.
Exactly (and I'm so sorry.) Also, the eligibility for ACA subsidies is based on your total yearly income, so if you mis-estimate in your application )very easy to do) you can be stuck owing at tax time for subsidy money that you received in error.
sofamonkey, Up First from NPR this morning reported that there are probably 26 million Americans who are newly uninsured right now. And about 6 million of them won't qualify for medicaid, an Obamacare exchange plan, or other insurance benefits.
I can verify that this is correct, and it’s a crisis of epic proportions.
And for those who do qualify, many of their options for insurance coverage are expensive as fuck.
This is me.
Prior to Covid I was in the middle of a Medicaid appeal. Now everything is shut down and I have nothing. I have 2 little kids, one with ASD whose extensive therapies required me to take some time off of work. I’m divorced and had just started back to work part time in anticipation that I would lose the Medicaid appeal and would have to pay for one of those insanely expensive plans for a month or two while I was in the middle of job hunting. Now there’s no job and no insurance plan. It’s terrifying. Some of you need to go sit in one of these benefits offices and see what it’s really like.
I can verify that this is correct, and it’s a crisis of epic proportions.
And for those who do qualify, many of their options for insurance coverage are expensive as fuck.
This is me.
Prior to Covid I was in the middle of a Medicaid appeal. Now everything is shut down and I have nothing. I have 2 little kids, one with ASD whose extensive therapies required me to take some time off of work. I’m divorced and had just started back to work part time in anticipation that I would lose the Medicaid appeal and would have to pay for one of those insanely expensive plans for a month or two while I was in the middle of job hunting. Now there’s no job and no insurance plan. It’s terrifying. Some of you need to go sit in one of these benefits offices and see what it’s really like.
I'm so sorry. And if I recall, you're in a non-Medicaid expansion state, which only compounds the complexities and expenses for MILLIONS of people who would otherwise be eligible, but aren't because conservatives have pushed the freeloader/exploiting the system narrative for so long that they rejected *free fucking federal money* to give their state's residents affordable health coverage.
Which, to go full circle, is exactly why that rhetoric bothers me so much.
Post by claudiajean on May 13, 2020 13:30:18 GMT -5
So, my husband is one of the "lucky" ones who is making very slightly more on PUA than he was while working. However, not only does he not have a job to go back to, but we had to go from paying $400ish a month for good health insurance (where we had already met our deductible for the year) to paying $600 a month for much worse health insurance with a brand new $8000 deductible per person.
Guess who had a medical emergency and is waiting on bills? It absolutely sucks to be sitting in a hospital listening to the different tests the doctor wants to run and making mental calculations of 1) can you afford it? 2) Will the hospital work out a payment plan? 3) If it ends up on your credit report while you're paying it off, will that impact your husband's ability to find a new job... because some jobs do check that which is another issue.
All programs probably have some people who are "taking advantage" but the number is so ridiculously small compared to those who can't cut through the red tape to get help or the people who need help and are getting what is available but it still isn't anywhere near the actual needed help.
I find this argument that people somehow exploiting these UI laws ridiculous. Like someone up thread said, you get them because you are eligible. Full stop. I also think there are a lot more people who were straight up laid off than furloughed. Companies had ZERO problem immediately laying people off because it was good for their bottom line. Now, many need/can rehire people because they have PPP loans that require them to rehire and keep the same payroll and they're upset that their former employees have declined to come back because they are making more money on UI. So, the company can get its money from the government and not the employees? The hypocrisy is infuriating. Plus, who's to say that you won't get laid off again when the PPP deadline ends - why would you trust a company that had no problems getting rid of you? I would do them zero favors if I could make more money not going back.
Many states and I think the CARES Act itself removes the requirement that you have to look for a job to be eligible for the benefits (you know, since there are no jobs to take!) If you were laid off, you are no longer an employee of that company, so they should not be able to impact your UI benefits by stating you refuse to come back to your job. You don't have a job (unless you were furloughed).
I've been hesitant to post on this thread. My H works in shipping and receiving for a mid-sized company. So, although the office staff could work from home, people in several departments were laid off (or furloughed I guess, but that's not the term H used). He did get the extra $600 per week which did mean he made more than is regular salary. After 2 weeks, he was called back. He was the only person in his department. We don't know if he was the first one they called or if he was he just the first person to say yes to coming back (apparently he had the option to say no and they would have called the next person). So, while he has been going to work and I am WFH and @@@@@trying to homeschool twin 7 year olds and make sure my middle schooler does her online work while I am also trying to get my work done @@@@@@@@ other people in his department continued to collect unemployment with the extra $600 and medical benefits. I will be completely honest. My first thought was, how did we get so lucky (sarcastically).
But, my husband was laid off during the recession in 2009 and it took a long time to find a stable, full time, year round job. He was not happy about going on unemployment again even though it meant more money and was temporary. I am also extremely grateful that he has full time work and doesn't need to find a new job.
Call me out for feeling that H being on layoff for a couple more weeks would have been "nice." I own up to it. But, I don't begrudge anyone who is getting UI, whether they were given the option to return to work or not. That would make me a total hypocrite.
Call me out for feeling that H being on layoff for a couple more weeks would have been "nice." I own up to it. But, I don't begrudge anyone who is getting UI, whether they were given the option to return to work or not. That would make me a total hypocrite.
I completely understand that reaction – we're all overwhelmed right now and it's hard not to look at other people's situations and feel envious when it looks easier from the outside. But it sounds like you also recognize that if he was still laid off or uncertain whether he'd ever go back to work, you would be happy for the extra money. And that's very different from calling people scammers or freeloaders for receiving UI.
On the other side of things, I've had times when I'm grateful Mr. Smock got laid off. Obviously it's not awesome long-term, but @@@i don't know how I'd work and watch the kids if he was also working@@@.
Overall, I wish we'd all remember that millions of people are in really bad spots right now. It's just extra wrong to punch down at minimum-wage earners making more on temporary UI during a pandemic and economic crisis.
This is a really succinct way to say what is going on with needing to get money into people’s hands. The other part is definitely controlling the pandemic but it’s those two things that are tanking the economy.
claudiajean , I switched my employee's health plans from Insurance Company A to Insurance Company B in April. Our broker said anything they had paid toward the deductible for plan A would carry over to plan B. I don't know if that's a state law thing or a transfer because they were both employer sponsored plans, but it's worth looking into if it will apply to you.
Lest we forget that many of these families with school-aged children were receiving free or reduced lunches. So on top of needed to be home to provide childcare, they now need to spend more money on food to make sure their children are fed. And food prices are skyrocketing, some food is scarce, etc. I look at how much my grocery bills are increasing, and I'm lucky because I can afford an extra $50-100/week on food. I cannot imagine how stressful it is for families who aren't making a living wage.
But please, let's have the children starve just to make sure their lazy parents aren't cheating the system.
Hopefully other states/districts have programs similar to ours. Schools are still preparing lunches (not all schools but a percentage of them as "anchor" kitchens.) Some districts are having families drive to the schools but far more are now loading the buses with lunches and coolers of milk and delivering them to homes or along bus routes for families to pick up. The kids are still being fed, thank goodness. And in our state, you don't even have to qualify for free/reduced to get the lunches.
There are so many posts that I hovered over the like button to show empathy or solidarity, but I just couldn't "like" them. I am so sorry for all those who have been affected. I have been so fortunate so far this time, but my husband worries every day about his job (I think it's safe but he worries and it's not healthy for him. He also worries about his staff, whether his office will be able to collect from clients who aren't bringing in money... He remembers when he was let go from his first job because he outed a sexual harassment matter to his bosses, and it ended up taking such a long time to find a job. What he was able to find was across the country, away from my kids' dad and our lives here; for some of that unemployed time he worked as a telemarketer just to be able to pay rent. He was terrified he'd never find another job in his field. He was also not eligible for health insurance at that time because of the pre-existing condition of being "overweight" - which he really wasn't, comparatively, except for insurance purposes. We now have much more serious pre-existing conditions that would mark us ineligible for any insurance should those protections be eliminated. I've spent more than half my life uninsured, even as the rest of my family had coverage (VA for the ex and CHIP for the kids) because it was unavailable or unaffordable.) He put his staff on a work/share program so they would still get a salary but be eligible for pro-rated benefits and UE benefits. His office is paying 100% of the medical premiums of the staff they had to lay off rather than furlough. They're doing what they can to do what's right. And since he and I both remember what it was like to be desperately searching for jobs and trying to feed ourselves and our families, it doesn't matter a hot bit whether they're making off a little bit better being on furlough or work-share and making just a little bit more than they were working full-time. If it helps them worry less, more power to them.
I'm sure most have moved past this and I wasn't going to respond, but something is compelling me to do so. I'm not looking for hairpats or anything, just offering another perspective. Sorry, it's long.
My DH has always out-earned me by at least 150%. I've always carried our insurance because my company offers a better plan. It was always our plan for me to have the less demanding job, making less money for a variety of reasons (@@@@one being because of our two children and everything that comes along with that). We have savings, but not enough that would cover his salary for an extended amount of time because we always felt his career was more stable and we are of the mindset of "you can't take it with you when you go" about a lot of frivolous spending. Shame on us.
December 16, 2019: DH gets laid off from his job due to "restructuring" and many of the US based positions moved over seas. He gets a severance package that included his full salary until February 29, 2020.
March 1, 2020: DH files for unemployment. He only qualifies for $x. "x" is about 1/5 of what his salary was. Less than my salary, even. Manageable as long as it's short term.
March 13, 2020: DH finalizes a job offer that is his same job title/description as the job he had when laid off. Salary isn't as good, but still right on track for where he wanted to be. Opportunity for growth and advancement. He is set to begin March 16, 2020 (they wanted him immediately to start, which thankfully he could accommodate since he was laid off). Truly a dream in many ways.
March 15, 2020: Ohio shuts down. Only essential businesses are permitted to remain open. This company doesn't appear to immediately qualify. He receives a call saying to sit tight, they're working with the government to classify as essential (they provide parts to essential businesses). As of now, though, his start date is being held until March 30, 2020.
March 30, 2020: Not much has changed, but the position is being held until April 30, 2020 due to the governor's extended stay at home order. He's still receiving the original UI benefits.
April 30, 2020: Position is on hold indefinitely until the company can re-evaluate economic impact of the virus. Business is definitely down, DH's position may not be needed anymore. DH makes a phone call to see if he'll qualify for the extra $600/week COVID benefit.
May 6 2020: Finally hears back from the unemployment office that he does indeed qualify for the $600/week. This now brings his unemployment earnings to about 1/3 of his previous salary.
May 13, 2020: DH gets notification that they've eliminated the position DH was offered in March.
During this two month time frame, DH has applied for literally hundreds and hundreds of positions. Things he's underqualified for, overqualified, some that fit his experience perfectly, no experience at all, etc. You name it, he's applied. Out of those hundreds of positions, he's gotten 2 phone interviews. Two. And not one called him back after the phone interview. He's competing with hundreds of thousands of people for any kind of job at the end of this.
As a result, he has fallen into a deep depression. My husband, the one that used to run circles around me and always made me wonder where he gets his energy, hasn't gone outside in weeks. He's lost 15 pounds since December, and he was already fit/trim as it was. He's not sleeping. He's irritable about everything. We've had to dip into savings for some medical bills I accrued from a breast cancer scare in March. We've had to dip into savings to replace our refrigerator that died on us unexpectedly. We've had to dip into savings for some other miscellaneous things because we were just shy of making ends meet.
So while the extra $600 is nice right now, we're still going to come out in the red. The $600 isn't going to last forever and still doesn't sustain us. And who the fuck knows when he'll get another job. He doesn't need to be making what he made before. And as mentioned somewhere else in this thread, it's not even about his salary. It's that he WANTS to work. He NEEDS to work to feel like he's providing for his family. He NEEDS to work to feel like he's fulfilling his life (he's not a workaholic, but loved his job). He NEEDS to work to get himself out of this depression that he's in.
It isn't even about the money anymore. I just want my husband back.
I find this argument that people somehow exploiting these UI laws ridiculous. Like someone up thread said, you get them because you are eligible. Full stop. I also think there are a lot more people who were straight up laid off than furloughed. Companies had ZERO problem immediately laying people off because it was good for their bottom line. Now, many need/can rehire people because they have PPP loans that require them to rehire and keep the same payroll and they're upset that their former employees have declined to come back because they are making more money on UI. So, the company can get its money from the government and not the employees? The hypocrisy is infuriating. Plus, who's to say that you won't get laid off again when the PPP deadline ends - why would you trust a company that had no problems getting rid of you? I would do them zero favors if I could make more money not going back.
Many states and I think the CARES Act itself removes the requirement that you have to look for a job to be eligible for the benefits (you know, since there are no jobs to take!) If you were laid off, you are no longer an employee of that company, so they should not be able to impact your UI benefits by stating you refuse to come back to your job. You don't have a job (unless you were furloughed).
Exactly, and this is not a new fucking argument. This is the same shit that people always say. They say it about food stamps, section 8 house, and disability payments. I made more money a paycheck the 6 months I was out of work when I was on 3 months of hospital bed rest with my twins. That is also because I make shit money in the legal field I do and had far less taxes taken out. People would be yelling from the rafters if they knew that, because people are racist assholes. Of course it was temporary and a very crazy health situation but I say this because these are not new arguments. It is the same shit that of course black people don't want to work because their snap benefits can buy them one lobster a month!!!
That is also not directed at anyone in particular just restating that these are not new arguments, especially regarding poc.