I think it’s not that 95% didn’t get the virus (we don’t have that data), it’s that 95% didn’t get any symptoms of Covid after vaccination. It’s very possible that they didn’t get Covid at all, but we weren’t testing trial participants for active Covid infections.
At least that’s my understanding.
That was my understanding as well, but then I started reading a summary of the Pfizer trial and it seemed like the 95% effectively was based on something that happened 7 days post second vaccine dose. And this is where I definitely got lost - was it a symptom check? Was it titers? And then the participants do daily electronic journal symptom updates for months - so I understand how that is not catch asymptomatic cases. But I don’t think the effectivity is calculate based on the e-journal updates from what I read. But I can definitely be wrong here.
That was my understanding as well, but then I started reading a summary of the Pfizer trial and it seemed like the 95% effectively was based on something that happened 7 days post second vaccine dose. And this is where I definitely got lost - was it a symptom check? Was it titers? And then the participants do daily electronic journal symptom updates for months - so I understand how that is not catch asymptomatic cases. But I don’t think the effectivity is calculate based on the e-journal updates from what I read. But I can definitely be wrong here.
Thanks Wandering. I did look at this last night. It says “ A total of 43,548 participants underwent randomization, of whom 43,448 received injections: 21,720 with BNT162b2 and 21,728 with placebo. There were 8 cases of Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose among participants assigned to receive BNT162b2 and 162 cases among those assigned to placebo; BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to 97.6).” And also, “ The first primary end point was the efficacy of BNT162b2 against confirmed Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose in participants who had been without serologic or virologic evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection up to 7 days after the second dose.” To me, it doesn’t appear to be talking about confirmed symptoms at the 7 day mark it is talking about confirmed contraction? The follow up after 7 days seems to be based on symptoms, but it seemed to be the 7 day confirmed Covid that drove the effectivity.
I hope I’m not coming across as argumentative. I’m not trying to be!
My H’s grandparents (mid-80s) are about to get their second shot and my SFIL (mid-70s) is getting his first this week.
Still anxiously waiting for my parents (mid-70s) to be able to get their first shot in CA. My dad has all sorts of awful comorbidities too. California’s rollout has been so frustrating.
I agree on the California rollout being very frustrating. My dad is 75 and lives in California and both his county and health provider have said that they'll be able to start vaccinating those over 75 soon, they just haven't received enough vaccine yet. We have no idea when "soon" is. I live in a different and larger county in CA and everyone I know who is over 75 and living in my county has either gotten their first dose or has a vaccine appointment scheduled. I really want my dad to be able to get vaccinated!
My H’s grandparents (mid-80s) are about to get their second shot and my SFIL (mid-70s) is getting his first this week.
Still anxiously waiting for my parents (mid-70s) to be able to get their first shot in CA. My dad has all sorts of awful comorbidities too. California’s rollout has been so frustrating.
I agree on the California rollout being very frustrating. My dad is 75 and lives in California and both his county and health provider have said that they'll be able to start vaccinating those over 75 soon, they just haven't received enough vaccine yet. We have no idea when "soon" is. I live in a different and larger county in CA and everyone I know who is over 75 and living in my county has either gotten their first dose or has a vaccine appointment scheduled. I really want my dad to be able to get vaccinated!
I can't speak for other counties and don't know where you live, but neither Marin nor San Mateo have covered their 75+ residents yet. People are struggling to get appointments and some who could are more than a month out for that first dose. They aren't the largest counties, but they also aren't exactly remote, medically underserved or low resource populations. Residents with serious or "zebra" conditions often get their medical care through UCSF or Stanford.
I can imagine it's a big issue for more remote or rural counties.
ETA: *if* your parents happen to be in Marin, send me a PM.
I agree on the California rollout being very frustrating. My dad is 75 and lives in California and both his county and health provider have said that they'll be able to start vaccinating those over 75 soon, they just haven't received enough vaccine yet. We have no idea when "soon" is. I live in a different and larger county in CA and everyone I know who is over 75 and living in my county has either gotten their first dose or has a vaccine appointment scheduled. I really want my dad to be able to get vaccinated!
I can't speak for other counties and don't know where you live, but neither Marin nor San Mateo have covered their 75+ residents yet. People are struggling to get appointments and some who could are more than a month out for that first dose. They aren't the largest counties, but they also aren't exactly remote, medially underserved or low resource populations. Residents with serious or "zebra" conditions often get their medical care through UCSF or Stanford.
I can imagine it's a big issue for more remote or rural counties.
ETA: *if* your parents happen to be in Marin, send me a PM.
My dad is in Monterey. His siblings are also over 75 and they live in Sonoma and both have appointments through Sutter later this month.
I can't speak for other counties and don't know where you live, but neither Marin nor San Mateo have covered their 75+ residents yet. People are struggling to get appointments and some who could are more than a month out for that first dose. They aren't the largest counties, but they also aren't exactly remote, medially underserved or low resource populations. Residents with serious or "zebra" conditions often get their medical care through UCSF or Stanford.
I can imagine it's a big issue for more remote or rural counties.
ETA: *if* your parents happen to be in Marin, send me a PM.
My dad is in Monterey. His siblings are also over 75 and they live in Sonoma and both have appointments through Sutter later this month.
"More Americans have received at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine than have tested positive for the virus, an early but hopeful milestone in the race to end the pandemic." Hot off the presses via Bloomberg
In vaccine rollout debacle news, MD is such crap. We are officially in 1c. But my county is all “not that 1c, and even not that 1b either.” Just age. None of the other things in b or c count. I’m kinda glad I’m not in b any more, just for the stress impact of nit being able to find or get a vaccine. So, it’s still moving goal posts. I was annoyed enough when they changed the categories after they started 1a. But it’s still changing.
It’s such a crapshoot here. The only people I’ve heard of in Maryland that have gotten it are low risk, low age people who are staying at home. It makes no sense. Meanwhile my in laws who have a few comorbitities probably won’t find it for a while. 🤷♀️
I told my H I’m tapping out of helping him get an appointment because I honestly just can’t handle it. I’m at the end of the list and mentally preparing to get it in June. Which is fine. I belong at the end of the list.
"More Americans have received at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine than have tested positive for the virus, an early but hopeful milestone in the race to end the pandemic." Hot off the presses via Bloomberg
"More Americans have received at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine than have tested positive for the virus, an early but hopeful milestone in the race to end the pandemic." Hot off the presses via Bloomberg
In vaccine rollout debacle news, MD is such crap. We are officially in 1c. But my county is all “not that 1c, and even not that 1b either.” Just age. None of the other things in b or c count. I’m kinda glad I’m not in b any more, just for the stress impact of nit being able to find or get a vaccine. So, it’s still moving goal posts. I was annoyed enough when they changed the categories after they started 1a. But it’s still changing.
It’s such a crapshoot here. The only people I’ve heard of in Maryland that have gotten it are low risk, low age people who are staying at home. It makes no sense. Meanwhile my in laws who have a few comorbitities probably won’t find it for a while. 🤷♀️
I told my H I’m tapping out of helping him get an appointment because I honestly just can’t handle it. I’m at the end of the list and mentally preparing to get it in June. Which is fine. I belong at the end of the list.
I really hope you can get it soon.
The only people I have heard of are health care workers (my PCP got it, last Monday) and a couple elderly parents of friends. Luckily, I don’t know anyone young, healthy, and staying home. I’d be livid 😂
Post by Jalapeñomel on Feb 1, 2021 19:40:35 GMT -5
We will have another surge in a couple of weeks after midwinter break. The community where I teach is already talking about their plans to tropical islands.
It’s such a crapshoot here. The only people I’ve heard of in Maryland that have gotten it are low risk, low age people who are staying at home. It makes no sense. Meanwhile my in laws who have a few comorbitities probably won’t find it for a while. 🤷♀️
I told my H I’m tapping out of helping him get an appointment because I honestly just can’t handle it. I’m at the end of the list and mentally preparing to get it in June. Which is fine. I belong at the end of the list.
I really hope you can get it soon.
The only people I have heard of are health care workers (my PCP got it, last Monday) and a couple elderly parents of friends. Luckily, I don’t know anyone young, healthy, and staying home. I’d be livid 😂
How are such people (the young, stay at home crowd) even allowed to sign up? I don't get it. They are pretty specific about who can get it and who can't. The only people I can think of in MD that have gotten it are teachers or work in healthcare research (and have limited patient contact/time working in the office). I just realized I don't really know any old people here, lol.
Oh and my PCP emailed her whole patient list to let us know she was vaccinated and supports everyone getting the vaccine, too.
At least our positivity rate keeps dropping? We're inching close to 5%....
I have a question for work. Once employees are fully vaccinated, do they still need to quarantine for an exposure etc.?
I know in the last post some schools have stated that teachers do not have to quarantine. However, I am waiting to hear something more official on this from the CDC or my state or local health department or others in my industry (which is not schools).
Almost all of my hospital is vaccinated and we still have to follow the CDC and city of Chicago guidelines on distancing and travel/exposure quarantines.
We will have another surge in a couple of weeks after midwinter break. The community where I teach is already talking about their plans to tropical islands.
I expect a similar surge. Our schools have gone remote for the first week back after each break - Thanksgiving, Winter and ski week (what they call feb break). During that week, they offer testing at the school campuses for the community. I think it has really cut back on the at school cases we would otherwise see.
We will have another surge in a couple of weeks after midwinter break. The community where I teach is already talking about their plans to tropical islands.
This is why Canada has effectively shut down travel to anywhere. It took us 6 weeks to get past the Christmas peak. No way I want to be locked up in my house for 6 weeks again because some people have to travel.
MIL & FIL live in the same state as us, and FIL got an appointment for tomorrow... several hours away... in a snow storm. He and MIL left today and are spending the night so he makes sure he doesn't miss his chance.
MIL is also eligible, but has been unable to get an app't earlier than 2/25 (also a couple hour drive in a different direction). I wonder what the odds are of there being a missed appointment that MIL could fill tomorrow, given the storm.
The only people I have heard of are health care workers (my PCP got it, last Monday) and a couple elderly parents of friends. Luckily, I don’t know anyone young, healthy, and staying home. I’d be livid 😂
How are such people (the young, stay at home crowd) even allowed to sign up? I don't get it. They are pretty specific about who can get it and who can't. The only people I can think of in MD that have gotten it are teachers or work in healthcare research (and have limited patient contact/time working in the office). I just realized I don't really know any old people here, lol.
Oh and my PCP emailed her whole patient list to let us know she was vaccinated and supports everyone getting the vaccine, too.
At least our positivity rate keeps dropping? We're inching close to 5%....
someone I know in MD got it bc she's on a school board - apparently that counts in the "education" crew, even though she doesn't work face to face in a school.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
How are such people (the young, stay at home crowd) even allowed to sign up? I don't get it. They are pretty specific about who can get it and who can't. The only people I can think of in MD that have gotten it are teachers or work in healthcare research (and have limited patient contact/time working in the office). I just realized I don't really know any old people here, lol.
Oh and my PCP emailed her whole patient list to let us know she was vaccinated and supports everyone getting the vaccine, too.
At least our positivity rate keeps dropping? We're inching close to 5%....
someone I know in MD got it bc she's on a school board - apparently that counts in the "education" crew, even though she doesn't work face to face in a school.
I totally admit to have considered what “continuity of government” means. One signup I saw just asked if you worked for the government. Well, me and 1/3 of the state 😂
no, I am not actually doing that. Just waiting on my turn and bitching about how it’ll never happen. My county has refused to move into 1c as the state says.
someone I know in MD got it bc she's on a school board - apparently that counts in the "education" crew, even though she doesn't work face to face in a school.
I totally admit to have considered what “continuity of government” means. One signup I saw just asked if you worked for the government. Well, me and 1/3 of the state 😂
no, I am not actually doing that. Just waiting on my turn and bitching about how it’ll never happen. My county has refused to move into 1c as the state says.
Honestly, based on some of the people I know who have gotten it, if you can get it as a government worker than do it. Get it as soon as you can. The young/healthy/at home people I know who have gotten it are people with medical licenses who haven’t seen a patient in almost a year and likely won’t for at least 6 months if not never again (WFH or not working at the moment). And people who work for the schools that don’t teach in person and won’t for 6 months or never. Just get it as soon as you can and don’t feel bad. It’s a free for all out there. LOL
I lurk but I thought this should be addressed. Disabled people under 65 have been deprioritized in California. So now a 65 year old with no pre-existing conditions who can stay at home gets vaccinated before a 64 year-old with diabetes or asthma who has to go into work every day. This is in enraging.
I appreciate this too. My parents are in northern CA but not Marin - although it’s not a rural county either. Their county hasn’t opened up availability to them yet (they are just under 75).
I think they are doing a big push to cover the 75+ crowd first despite the mixed messaging at the state level. Are they easy driving distance to SF? If so, PM me.
Can I ask the stupidest of questions? Is it true that in order to transmit Coronavirus you need to have the virus, as would be detected in the anti body titers?
If Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are 95% effective would they not decrease the transmission by that amount as well since those people are not getting the virus at all and therefore not able to transmit it?
Is the discussion on vaccinated individuals ability to transmit the virus limited to the 5% who are still catching Covid and therefore able to transmit it (potentially in asymptomatic cases)?
Okay from my understanding, there are different levels of immunity, the highest being ‘sterile immunity’ where basically the virus can’t get a toehold at all, you won’t carry it, won’t spread it. But beneath that you can have partial immunity such that you do not get sick from the coronavirus but you still have it present in your body and could theoretically infect others.
ETA — I don’t think the virus is present in antibody titers? Like theoretically they could swab your nose, it has a some level of the virus, but you yourself are not sick
I lurk but I thought this should be addressed. Disabled people under 65 have been deprioritized in California. So now a 65 year old with no pre-existing conditions who can stay at home gets vaccinated before a 64 year-old with diabetes or asthma who has to go into work every day. This is in enraging.
This is the case here in IL. The only people under 65 that can sign up for a vaccine appointment are over 65, and those under 65 that work in an essential job.
Our county has indicated fully half of our population will qualify in this current tier. So anyone under 65 that is not working an essential job will have to wait until nearly half of the population is vaccinated before they can even sign up for a shot.
This is chat and not news so let me know if you want me to move it.
Are swollen lymph nodes a side effect of Moderna? I noticed last night that I have a small lump on my collarbone on the same side as my injection. I don't think it was there before - it's noticeable and I didn't notice it before yesterday, 4 days post vaccine.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
This is chat and not news so let me know if you want me to move it.
Are swollen lymph nodes a side effect of Moderna? I noticed last night that I have a small lump on my collarbone on the same side as my injection. I don't think it was there before - it's noticeable and I didn't notice it before yesterday, 4 days post vaccine.
I have nothing official to say if it is, but don't lymph nodes swell a bit when fighting off an infection?
I figure it would not be crazy for them to swell a bit after a vaccine as your body is replicating and producing the antibodies...
Post by wanderingback on Feb 2, 2021 8:38:45 GMT -5
I know people keep saying on here it doesn’t matter who is getting vaccinated, just get as many people vaccinated as possible, but I want to once again highlight inequities that are continuing to happen. They are important to address and to say it doesn’t matter is quite frankly ignorant.
This is a nice summary, but I hate the last subheading that says "Persuading people to get the shot." It needs to talk about how the healthcare system is complicit in being bias and racist and what the health care system is going to do to change.
I’m speaking on a few neighborhood panels over the next couple of weeks so I look forward to speaking directly to people in Black and brown communities like my own to discuss vaccinating. You all should talk to your local officials to find out what they’re doing about equity, just like when you call for other reasons. Also, you can sign up to volunteer and observe how things are going yourself. My doctor friend did just that and when she say that most appointments were white people in a mostly Hispanic neighborhood she contacted her city council and the media and now more appointment slots are saved for the local community. Change can happen with action.
"And in Washington, 40 percent of the nearly 7,000 appointments initially made available to people 65 and older were taken by residents of its wealthiest and whitest ward, which is in the city’s upper northwest section and has had only five percent of its Covid deaths.
“We want people regardless of their race and geography to be vaccinated, but I think the priority should be getting it to the people who are contracting Covid at the highest rates and dying from it,” said Kenyan McDuffie, a member of the City Council whose district is two-thirds Black and Latino."
"Officials in Wake County, N.C., which includes Raleigh, are first attempting to reach people 75 and over who live in nine ZIP codes that have had the highest rates of Covid. “We weren’t going to prioritize those who simply had the fastest internet service or best cell provider and got through fastest and first,” said Stacy Beard, a county spokeswoman."