The Crown: spoilers

[just]

What y’all think?

[just]

I had a really hard time with this season. I’m sure it’s recency bias - the fact that I “knew” these versions of the people. I grew up in Ireland and was 18 in 1998 so grew up with these people on news, tv, newspapers, magazines, regularly. I think it was just familiarity with the real footage.

I didn’t love Diana, I didn’t think Charles was nearly close enough, and Michael Sheen will always be the best Blair on film for me. He’s more Blair to me than Blair himself. Camilia was very good.

I was sad they spent a whole episode on the Romanovs (I know that wasnt the only a part of that episode). I feel that’s been played to death.

I liked the Fayed episode and the scenes with them at the end of the season. I also liked the courting scenes between Diana and Dr. Khan.

I like that the covered, at least briefly, the Hong Kong handover.

Also the last shot was weird.

[tacokick]

I’m not done but they really seem to be Team Charles all the way. I wish they spent more time on Diana. She had some good scenes but that one episode seemed like an infomercial for Charles. It was so hokey and forced.

This is worth a watch though m.youtube.com/watch?v=60XvRbJ_qZo

[sakoro]

I thought the writing was worse than prior seasons. There are lots of long speeches about tradition versus modernity. To be fair, it would be difficult to write about these topics in a fresh way, but it came across like This Is The Theme of The Episode. Also, many of the early episodes were setting up exposition for scenes that happened later in the season (and probably next season).

I think the season was balanced between Charles’ perspective versus Diana’s perspective. He was a total ass towards her on the Italy vacation and you can see how that would trigger insecurities for anyone. Don’t know why he couldn’t have said what he did at the end of the divorce episode along the lines of: “hey, nothing personal but I’ve been in love with someone else since 1972”. Diana comes across as overly trusting and getting manipulated by people with bad intentions. Martin Bashir comes across as a slime ball.

[sakoro]

Nov 12, 2022 23:46:08 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I’m not done but they really seem to be Team Charles all the way. I wish they spent more time on Diana. She had some good scenes but that one episode seemed like an infomercial for Charles. It was so hokey and forced.

Which episode? The post-divorce discussion?

This is worth a watch though m.youtube.com/watch?v=60XvRbJ_qZo

OMG, he’s a better breakdancer than I would have expected. Still awkward, but can move his hips a little! So glad I don’t have to demonstrate my breakdancing skills in front of the world’s media!

[flex]

Lots of poetic license in this season.

[basilosaurus]

You'd think I'd have remembered a fire at windsor. Nope.

[Poeticxpassion]

Can anyone please tell me if what happened in the first episode, Charles trying to oust the queen, was truthful or creative freedom?

I’m only on episode 3. I’m not liking this season like the past ones. Although, I do like Imelda as the Queen.

[arehopsveggies]

I always see Imelda Staunton as Dolores Umbridge and I can’t get that out of my head. It ruins her in other roles for me.

[tacokick]

Nov 13, 2022 7:31:01 GMT -5 sakoro said:

Nov 12, 2022 23:46:08 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I’m not done but they really seem to be Team Charles all the way. I wish they spent more time on Diana. She had some good scenes but that one episode seemed like an infomercial for Charles. It was so hokey and forced.

Which episode? The post-divorce discussion?

This is worth a watch though m.youtube.com/watch?v=60XvRbJ_qZo

OMG, he’s a better breakdancer than I would have expected. Still awkward, but can move his hips a little! So glad I don’t have to demonstrate my breakdancing skills in front of the world’s media!

I was surprised he was as good as he was! And a good sport. Go Charles!

I was talking about the episode where the dancing took place in the end credits, episode 5, I guess that was the post divorce one. The long speeches about waiting to be king so he could do more, the words detailing his charity work scrolling across the screen. I thought we were going to be treated to him selling us kitchen knives next. It was so 1980s infomercial. I agree the writing isn’t as good this season and they didn’t pull that off well.

[tacokick]

Nov 13, 2022 10:42:40 GMT -5 flex said:

Lots of poetic license in this season.

I noticed in articles and recaps about this season they all heavily focus on it being “fictionalized” and remind readers it’s a dramatization in a way that I did not see in earlier season coverage.

I find that interesting. I do think some of it is more obvious because more people are around who remember the events they are covering. I also think since they are getting closer to present day and talking about people who are still alive the creators might be pushing the “remember it’s fiction” narrative more. Obviously it always was fictionalized and speculative but I feel like they downplayed that a lot more in the earlier seasons.

[loira]

Maybe I'm still bitter that they abandoned the Suez crisis plotline so we'll never know who they might have cast as Lester Pearson, but every season seems more and more geared towards an American audience, as though Britain has no diplomatic ties with any other country. I also watched that whole scene where Charles was insinuating that John Major ought to consider a refresh on the monarchy and thought it was complete nonsense. I can't imagine it ever happened.

[flex]

Nov 13, 2022 15:15:27 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Nov 13, 2022 10:42:40 GMT -5 flex said:

Lots of poetic license in this season.

I noticed in articles and recaps about this season they all heavily focus on it being “fictionalized” and remind readers it’s a dramatization in a way that I did not see in earlier season coverage.

I find that interesting. I do think some of it is more obvious because more people are around who remember the events they are covering. I also think since they are getting closer to present day and talking about people who are still alive the creators might be pushing the “remember it’s fiction” narrative more. Obviously it always was fictionalized and speculative but I feel like they downplayed that a lot more in the earlier seasons.

I've heard a lot of it is due to the timing because of the recent passing of the Queen.

[tacokick]

Nov 13, 2022 22:33:19 GMT -5 flex said:

Nov 13, 2022 15:15:27 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I noticed in articles and recaps about this season they all heavily focus on it being “fictionalized” and remind readers it’s a dramatization in a way that I did not see in earlier season coverage.

I find that interesting. I do think some of it is more obvious because more people are around who remember the events they are covering. I also think since they are getting closer to present day and talking about people who are still alive the creators might be pushing the “remember it’s fiction” narrative more. Obviously it always was fictionalized and speculative but I feel like they downplayed that a lot more in the earlier seasons.

I've heard a lot of it is due to the timing because of the recent passing of the Queen.

I wonder if the materials they sent out with the advance screeners to press had some insert reminding reviewers to stress that it was fiction. The wording is nearly identical everywhere from magazines to the big blogs.

[sakoro]

Nov 13, 2022 12:39:30 GMT -5 Poeticxpassion said:

Can anyone please tell me if what happened in the first episode, Charles trying to oust the queen, was truthful or creative freedom?

I’m only on episode 3. I’m not liking this season like the past ones. Although, I do like Imelda as the Queen.

Both prime ministers have denied it. We’ll never know exactly happened in private conversations but it’s fair to imagine a mid-40s man with lots of forward thinking ideas would have wanted to take over from his aging mother.

[stemmie]

This is season is disappointing.

I'm sure the previous seasons were full of fiction (like Margret's visit with LBJ for instance) but this one seems even more fanciful and even sloppy.

[livinitup]

I like the flash backs very much. The characters as presented in their current day seemed so stiff and annoyed all the time. Which is disappointing.

A good part of this the overall annoyance is watching these extremely wealth folks live in the lap of luxury complaining bitterly about not having enough to do or enough choice in who they got to love/marry. Sure, I get it. You can sip champagne on the back of a yacht and still complain. The Diana story added nothing new, it kinda fell flat to me. This princess Anne (nope, Margaret) was unbearable - lady, it’s been 40 years, you COULD have married your divorced boyfriend if you gave up the HRH title and money, you did not, so stop screaming at your sister. Again, we’ve been here before. It felt flat.

Anyway, I loved the other seasons, this one hasn’t added much to the lore of “the crown” and all its complexities. Oh, well.

[mcsangel2]

Nov 14, 2022 9:31:57 GMT -5 livinitup said:

I like the flash backs very much. The characters as presented in their current day seemed so stiff and annoyed all the time. Which is disappointing.

A good part of this the overall annoyance is watching these extremely wealth folks live in the lap of luxury complaining bitterly about not having enough to do or enough choice in who they got to love/marry. Sure, I get it. You can sip champagne on the back of a yacht and still complain. The Diana story added nothing new, it kinda fell flat to me. This princess Anne was unbearable - lady, it’s been 40 years, you COULD have married your divorced boyfriend if you gave up the HRH title and money, you did not, so stop screaming at your sister. Again, we’ve been here before. It felt flat.

Anyway, I loved the other seasons, this one hasn’t added much to the lore of “the crown” and all its complexities. Oh, well.

You mean Princess Margaret.

[madringal]

I enjoyed it for what it was. But I do appreciate that they didn't include much of William and Harry. It would just be kind of cruel to turn them into characters for a plot with all they went through during that time.

And man, it is hard to hear Diana's words and NOT think of Meghan.

[sb]

Nov 14, 2022 9:31:57 GMT -5 livinitup said:

I like the flash backs very much. The characters as presented in their current day seemed so stiff and annoyed all the time. Which is disappointing.

A good part of this the overall annoyance is watching these extremely wealth folks live in the lap of luxury complaining bitterly about not having enough to do or enough choice in who they got to love/marry. Sure, I get it. You can sip champagne on the back of a yacht and still complain. The Diana story added nothing new, it kinda fell flat to me. This princess Anne was unbearable - lady, it’s been 40 years, you COULD have married your divorced boyfriend if you gave up the HRH title and money, you did not, so stop screaming at your sister. Again, we’ve been here before. It felt flat.

Anyway, I loved the other seasons, this one hasn’t added much to the lore of “the crown” and all its complexities. Oh, well.

I felt like they were at least trying at times to point out how wealthy/out of touch they are.  One example that stuck with me was a voice-over of Charles talking about how he hates idleness and dissipation over a scene of his giant residence and then servants drawing him a bath and even using a thermometer to check the temperature.

[stemmie]

Nov 13, 2022 12:57:41 GMT -5 arehopsveggies said:

I always see Imelda Staunton as Dolores Umbridge and I can’t get that out of my head. It ruins her in other roles for me.

You're not the only one.


www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/the-crown-season-5-viewers-are-all-making-the-same-complaint/ar-AA1458Q6?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=e967cbb3bcfe4b9a95eb063caefc7491

[pinkdutchtulips]

I like the back stories (Al Fayed's rise, the fate of the Romanovs both during WWI and post once communism fell).

My god did I feel for Margaret and her rage towards her sister over oking Anne's marriage to Tim Laurence vs denying Margaret Peter Townsend. Yes one could argue that the 1990's were far more lenient about divorce than the mid 1950's so that could explain QE2's stance. Also, Margaret could have pursued Townsend but at the expense of being exiled from The Firm. It was her choice to remain a princess and pass on Townsend. You could tell that they truly were each other's great loves in spite of a 40 year break.

This season showed the gulf between Prince Philip and QE2. She seemed SHOCKED that he was all too aware of DNA testing and how it worked when she thought she was bringing this new fangled technology his way. The carriage racing and subsequent close relationship that developed w Penny Knatchbull. QUE2 had her interests, he had his and there was no real overlap.

Probably bc I too am divorced, the episode about all of the divorces and how they got to that point .. oy, those stories got to me. Yes indeed, divorce is a complicated beast.

[Poeticxpassion]

I really loved the flash backs with the first actress as queen.

[sakoro]

Nov 14, 2022 14:51:57 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

This season showed the gulf between Prince Philip and QE2. She seemed SHOCKED that he was all too aware of DNA testing and how it worked when she thought she was bringing this new fangled technology his way. The carriage racing and subsequent close relationship that developed w Penny Knatchbull. QUE2 had her interests, he had his and there was no real overlap.

I was struck by how the lack of education really harmed these women (Queen, Margaret and Diana).

In the case of Margaret, I think she may have been more open to leaving the Royal Family and marrying Peter Townshend if she had more practical knowledge and life skills and some familiarity with life outside royal circles. She could have derived her confidence from her own abilities rather than her title.

Diana was so overly trusting and didn’t know how to carefully vet people and ask tough questions/ do more background research to figure out their true motives. If only she could have stayed single for a bit and developed other areas of her life and strengthened her platonic relationships.

Probably bc I too am divorced, the episode about all of the divorces and how they got to that point .. oy, those stories got to me. Yes indeed, divorce is a complicated beast.

I appreciated the scenes of the ordinary couples getting last ditch couples counseling. Marriage is complicated no matter if you’re super privileged or just scrapping by. We all bring our childhood baggage into it.

[themoneytree]

Nov 13, 2022 12:39:30 GMT -5 Poeticxpassion said:

Can anyone please tell me if what happened in the first episode, Charles trying to oust the queen, was truthful or creative freedom?

I’m only on episode 3. I’m not liking this season like the past ones. Although, I do like Imelda as the Queen.

It’s a bunch of utter nonsense.

[starburst604]

The Charles and Camilla phone sex convos

[madringal]

starburst604, "Tampax Gate" was all new info to me too. My god, if that isn't some of the worst dirty talk I have ever heard. Although I loved the line from Princess Anne when she said it was "too gynecological for me". Hilarious.

[emilyinchile]

I just watched the episode where Andrew has the conversation with the Queen about how he thinks he's going to get divorced, right before the toe sucking pictures come out. And I'm sorry, but making PRINCE ANDREW the likeable one and having the Queen keep coming off like a snobby bitch (thinking also of how she snubbed Mohammed Al Fayed and had him feel it as a snub, when I think she would have played the situation to still make him feel special)? Stop it.

[starburst604]

Nov 15, 2022 8:16:05 GMT -5 madringal said:

starburst604 , "Tampax Gate" was all new info to me too. My god, if that isn't some of the worst dirty talk I have ever heard. Although I loved the line from Princess Anne when she said it was "too gynecological for me". Hilarious.

Right?? I was like, did I really just hear that? I wanted to pour Clorox into my ears. 

[basilosaurus]

I find Charles pretty ew, so it was difficult to watch Dominic West in that role when sometimes I rather fancy him. If not fancy, at least I find him charming and mostly attractive. I find it much easier to separate Dolores Umbridge than McNulty. Maybe that's because the last HP I saw was the 4th in theater, and I've watched and rewatched the Wire many times, especially in the last few years.