Post by maudefindlay on Dec 9, 2022 9:10:08 GMT -5
I think there is a sense of relief and calm that can come with sharing your story. Stepping away from the BRF (the more, the power) and telling what happened to them all seem to be signs of that to me.
Post by themoneytree on Dec 9, 2022 10:35:55 GMT -5
I’m sad it turned out this way. Everyone I know was super excited about Meghan joining the royal family. It’s a difficult situation but I find both of them completely insufferable at this point.
I have a lot of uncharitable feelings about the BRF and that extends to Harry and Meghan. It's shocking to exactly 0 POC that Meghan experienced racism and misogyny at their hands. Ummm, hello? These people have colonized, brutalized, stolen from, and generally devastated POC for centuries.
I watched the trailer and both their gripe seem to be - "I thought they would protect meghan but they didn't". So really, you split with them because they personally failed you. Not because they are morally bankrupt.
But also, they are continuing to profit off this morally bankrupt institution! They continue to use their titles. If the queen had agreed to their deal, they would have continued to represent the crown!
There seemed to be no concern for the BRF's past racism when she married in and was working for them
And have we (the general public) forgotten that he was the one that dressed as an actual Nazi? LOL forever at his outrage.
the abuse she faces is not her fault just because she married him.
The Nazi uniform was disgusting. Does that mean he can now never stand up for his wife and child? That he has no standing to be upset when they are abused and endangered?
I assumed they did it to continue to set the record straight and to make money. Which they now need. Shrug.
I enjoyed it and so far it seemed like it was all about the media and the paparazzi culture around royals- that they get to live well, but they trade their entire lives over for it. And how impossible that trade really is. So far there were no major digs at the family that I saw.
It’s very obvious that Harry loves Meghan because she reminds him of all the best things about his mother, which is so sweet.
Watching the change in her, in pictures and videos, before him vs after him, was sad to me. I also find her to be a little insufferable now, but I suspect it’s because of all that pain she holds and how it comes out. She seemed so happy and carefree and full of life before. Obviously being the global target of public racism and humiliation would do that! Just sad to see.
There seemed to be no concern for the BRF's past racism when she married in and was working for them
And have we (the general public) forgotten that he was the one that dressed as an actual Nazi? LOL forever at his outrage.
the abuse she faces is not her fault just because she married him.
The Nazi uniform was disgusting. Does that mean he can now never stand up for his wife and child? That he has no standing to be upset when they are abused and endangered?
No one is saying the abuse is her fault. It is abhorrent and disgusting and 100% wrong. However, while they were both championing whatever their causes are they were benefiting from a family that has decimated countries. If they had said fuck this, we're out, I would have 100% been Team H&M (as much as I can be because the whole family is bullshit.) But they didn't - they wanted this weird hybrid situation that they didn't get and now they won't stop crying over it. That's the whole point - they were never upset until it personally impacted them. If they really want to stir things up, how about they use their platform to call for the return of stolen items and restitution to former colonies? Abolishing the monarchy? Nope, let's just drone on about ourselves on a podcast instead.
Post by Velar Fricative on Dec 9, 2022 13:23:04 GMT -5
Regardless of what people think about them and the BRF, watching the first two episodes made me realize that it's only been less than 3 years since they announced stepping down from royal duties, but then the pandemic hit two months later. A lot of the clips we've been seeing in the series are from 2020-2021, and then you factor in all the editing and producing that has to happen for a project like this. So time-wise, I don't see anything weird with this dropping now, or that they're going on and on about this for too long.
I hate read a British board similar to this (but so so much worse) and have always been so shocked and sickened at the hatred towards them on that board. Where the opinions seem to be based on British tabloid stories, shitty US media and a feeling that the audience know more than they actually do.
I guess it’s here too. Huh.
I feel sad that I started this thread. I just wanted to talk about how girl looks killer in a white shift dress.
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
I hate read a British board similar to this (but so so much worse) and have always been so shocked and sickened at the hatred towards them on that board. Where the opinions seem to be based on British tabloid stories, shitty US media and a feeling that the audience know more than they actually do.
I guess it’s here too. Huh.
I feel sad that I started this thread. I just wanted to talk about how girl looks killer in a white shift dress.
She looks great in everything. I'd look like I rolled out of bed in my H's oversized T-shirt if I wore that.
My gripe with these harry and meghan threads is that it is very hard to have a nuanced discussion on the issues they bring to light. IMO, it is ok to sympathize with Meghan and what she went through while also pointing out that H&M had no problem with the BRF's racism until it personally affected them.
Any criticism of this hypocrisy is immediately labeled "haters". I also wonder if this label is reserved for white American folks or if it extends to POC from colonized countries because that's something else to unpack.
I hate read a British board similar to this (but so so much worse) and have always been so shocked and sickened at the hatred towards them on that board. Where the opinions seem to be based on British tabloid stories, shitty US media and a feeling that the audience know more than they actually do.
I guess it’s here too. Huh.
I feel sad that I started this thread. I just wanted to talk about how girl looks killer in a white shift dress.
So, you just wanted to talk about fashion and beauty as it pertains to Meghan? Ok.
She’s beautiful. Like, insanely so. I like some of her dresses, but don’t love others. Pretty much the same with any celebrity or royal.
It’s weird to me that you didn’t expect an actual discussion with the start of the thread. 🤷♀️
the abuse she faces is not her fault just because she married him.
The Nazi uniform was disgusting. Does that mean he can now never stand up for his wife and child? That he has no standing to be upset when they are abused and endangered?
No one is saying the abuse is her fault. It is abhorrent and disgusting and 100% wrong.
won't stop crying over it.
Drone on about themselves
Unfortunately, the latter 2 statements contradict the disgust you claim to feel.
A belief that they could raise their voices about contested artifacts and undoing racist legacies is a fair critique. A debate about whether she, the victim, owes anyone her labor due to her uniquely public role, might be an interesting question.
Saying that they won’t stop crying about racist abuse they’ve experienced is not. It actually diminishes the trauma by implying they should be over it.
I'm not sure how to express my thoughts, but for me, I think there is a lot to unpack, and as I said in another thread, I'm just trying to figure out if they have an end game, what it might be. There may be no end game and it's just simply a way to communicate on a bigger platform everything they have experienced.
I don't think changing the BRF will come in our lifetime. That's sad, but looking at the actions of Charles and William, it's evident they aren't going to push that shift.
If it's to bring to light the BRF, it's issues, and the British tabloids, then I think they might be successful with their platforms in America, but do the British really care? (That's more rhetorical, I have no clue what the British future looks like.)
I also struggle with Harry's shift from a Prince who wore a Nazi costume to now. He has had the utmost privilege in the world, so is he really going to get anything across to most of America?
I hate read a British board similar to this (but so so much worse) and have always been so shocked and sickened at the hatred towards them on that board. Where the opinions seem to be based on British tabloid stories, shitty US media and a feeling that the audience know more than they actually do.
I guess it’s here too. Huh.
I feel sad that I started this thread. I just wanted to talk about how girl looks killer in a white shift dress.
So, you just wanted to talk about fashion and beauty as it pertains to Meghan? Ok.
She’s beautiful. Like, insanely so. I like some of her dresses, but don’t love others. Pretty much the same with any celebrity or royal.
It’s weird to me that you didn’t expect an actual discussion with the start of the thread. 🤷♀️
I expected a GBCN level discussion that is usually thoughtful, intelligent, considered criticism of the system and the people. And many of the posts here have been.
But similarly there's been posts that are kind of shitty and based on tabloid gossip and make me feel dirty.
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
I think this documentary and everything else they are doing is forcing a shift for the monarchy. It needs a favorable public opinion to be relevant. H&M are disrupting the status quo from within. This is a first. More and more countries are leaving the commonwealth and others are wondering if they should stay or leave. The BRF is going to be forced to make amends. I say forced because they would never do it on their own. I hope Harry spills more tea about how bad they are now that his grandmother is dead.
No one is saying the abuse is her fault. It is abhorrent and disgusting and 100% wrong.
won't stop crying over it.
Drone on about themselves
Unfortunately, the latter 2 statements contradict the disgust you claim to feel.
A belief that they could raise their voices about contested artifacts and undoing racist legacies is a fair critique. A debate about whether she, the victim, owes anyone her labor due to her uniquely public role, might be an interesting question.
Saying that they won’t stop crying about racist abuse they’ve experienced is not. It actually diminishes the trauma by implying they should be over it.
She doesn't owe anyone anything. As someone who's family experienced its own trauma at the hands of the British and sees family members that still struggle with generational trauma I will damn well criticize anyone that reaps the benefits of that trauma. ETA: That came out shittier than I meant it.
So, you just wanted to talk about fashion and beauty as it pertains to Meghan? Ok.
She’s beautiful. Like, insanely so. I like some of her dresses, but don’t love others. Pretty much the same with any celebrity or royal.
It’s weird to me that you didn’t expect an actual discussion with the start of the thread. 🤷♀️
I expected a GBCN level discussion that is usually thoughtful, intelligent, considered criticism of the system and the people. And many of the posts here have been.
But similarly there's been posts that are kind of shitty and based on tabloid gossip and make me feel dirty.
What posts here make you feel “dirty?”
I guess I just don’t understand why people aren’t allowed to say anything that’s not 100% in support of them? Harry has A LOT to critique, too. There’s a lot of problematic shit he has said far more recently than the wearing of his Nazi uniform.
Any criticism of this hypocrisy is immediately labeled "haters". I also wonder if this label is reserved for white American folks or if it extends to POC from colonized countries because that's something else to unpack.
Not sure about “haters” because that is different than what’s being discussed here, but internalizing and replicating racist ideas (in this case, anti-Blackness) is universal.
Unfortunately, the latter 2 statements contradict the disgust you claim to feel.
A belief that they could raise their voices about contested artifacts and undoing racist legacies is a fair critique. A debate about whether she, the victim, owes anyone her labor due to her uniquely public role, might be an interesting question.
Saying that they won’t stop crying about racist abuse they’ve experienced is not. It actually diminishes the trauma by implying they should be over it.
She doesn't owe anyone anything. As someone who's family experienced its own trauma at the hands of the British and sees family members that still struggle with generational trauma I will damn well criticize anyone that reaps the benefits of that trauma. ETA: That came out shittier than I meant it.
I think the basis of our disagreement is that you view her as exploiting her victimization, and I don’t view it as possible to exploit one’s victimization.
Any criticism of this hypocrisy is immediately labeled "haters". I also wonder if this label is reserved for white American folks or if it extends to POC from colonized countries because that's something else to unpack.
Not sure about “haters” because that is different than what’s being discussed here, but internalizing and replicating racist ideas (in this case, anti-Blackness) is universal.
Oh I 100% agree that POC are very capable of continuing to propagate racism. That is my exactly my point with H&M. That they are continuing to propagate the racism that is a prerequisite to being working members of the BRF while expecting protection for themselves because of their roles in the family.
I think your point is that we cannot blame Meghan for this because she is a victim herself but that contradicts what you wrote here.
Having said that, I understand I'm setting impossible standards for them. It probably required a lot of bravery to break away from the only thing Harry has known. This on top of the trauma that he suffered as a child and then again as an adult. Maybe they will surprise me in the future, as they are more financially and socially secure, by working to right some wrongs suffered at the hands of the BRF. I'm not too optimistic but maybe some things will be set in motion.
This conversation has been a reminder for me to be less salty and a bit more empathetic towards super privileged people because they are human too. I'll try to do that.
My gripe with these harry and meghan threads is that it is very hard to have a nuanced discussion on the issues they bring to light. IMO, it is ok to sympathize with Meghan and what she went through while also pointing out that H&M had no problem with the BRF's racism until it personally affected them.
Any criticism of this hypocrisy is immediately labeled "haters". I also wonder if this label is reserved for white American folks or if it extends to POC from colonized countries because that's something else to unpack.
I think the series has done a good job of centering black British voices in, and discussing the history of colonization and how "The Commonwealth" is really just the Empire 2.0. It's not a full on history lesson, but they are discussing the larger picture and the lacking depth of history being taught in schools. They discuss how the Caribbean is essentially the equivalent to the American South and just because slavery was abolished doesn't mean they didn't continue to de facto practice it.
IMO, this series using Harry and Meghan as a jumping off point to discuss a lot of other topics.
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I hate read a British board similar to this (but so so much worse) and have always been so shocked and sickened at the hatred towards them on that board. Where the opinions seem to be based on British tabloid stories, shitty US media and a feeling that the audience know more than they actually do.
I guess it’s here too. Huh.
I feel sad that I started this thread. I just wanted to talk about how girl looks killer in a white shift dress.
To be clear, I think she's great, in as much as I think any celebrity is great! She's seriously one of the most beautiful and poised people I can think of. Her grace at the funeral of the queen was amazing; I was having a panic attack FOR her. I hesitate to try to guess what's happening in any public figure's mind or read anything into what they do but I think they are about 1,000 more media savvy than anyone else in that family and if the monarchy is going to continue, it was beyond stupid for letting her go. I think it's weird to say it's sad that any child gets born into a life of incredible privilege but I truly do feel sorry for Harry. I think I heard that he's been in a great deal of therapy and hopefully is doing whatever he can to protect his kids from the dysfunction. If he wants to sell pictures of his feet on Only Fans I don't care and would say, get that bread.
I think this documentary and everything else they are doing is forcing a shift for the monarchy. It needs a favorable public opinion to be relevant. H&M are disrupting the status quo from within. This is a first. More and more countries are leaving the commonwealth and others are wondering if they should stay or leave. The BRF is going to be forced to make amends. I say forced because they would never do it on their own. I hope Harry spills more tea about how bad they are now that his grandmother is dead.
My gripe with these harry and meghan threads is that it is very hard to have a nuanced discussion on the issues they bring to light. IMO, it is ok to sympathize with Meghan and what she went through while also pointing out that H&M had no problem with the BRF's racism until it personally affected them.
Any criticism of this hypocrisy is immediately labeled "haters". I also wonder if this label is reserved for white American folks or if it extends to POC from colonized countries because that's something else to unpack.
I’m back because I can’t stay away.
As a black woman I found her willingness to even date him fascinating. I’m glad she did and they fell in love but he would be in a never-ever category for me. I could write a full essay around her conversations about her lack of being treated like a black woman in the US. Your comments above about their complicity struck me hard and I 100% understand what you are saying.
I don’t think people are haters. I think people are judging them harshly. No matter about what we think about their situation, they now have to live, pay for security, their children and none of that’s cheap for a royal-born prince. I just really have no idea what people think they are going to do. They are going to earn money and this is about all they have to make it. She tried a podcast, they have a foundation, he’s writing a book, they sold their love story to Netflix. Sounds about right. She’s not going back to Suits lol.
Not sure about “haters” because that is different than what’s being discussed here, but internalizing and replicating racist ideas (in this case, anti-Blackness) is universal.
Oh I 100% agree that POC are very capable of continuing to propagate racism. That is my exactly my point with H&M. That they are continuing to propagate the racism that is a prerequisite to being working members of the BRF while expecting protection for themselves because of their roles in the family.
I think your point is that we cannot blame Meghan for this because she is a victim herself but that contradicts what you wrote here.
H
That is part of my point. My larger point is that folks being tired of hearing their experiences with racism— or viewing those experiences as an asset they capitalize on— is racist.
Speaking of Harry not preparing her - I found it fascinating that she said she had no help from the palace with learning protocol. That her first walkabout after they were engaged Harry tried to help her but he didn’t know what to do “from a woman’s perspective” etc. It seems the family would figure out that having an assistant of some kind to help with protocol would only be helpful?? But they don’t do that at all and it’s trial by fire, then she does small breaches of protocol that the newspapers call out and she gets criticized. What a stupid, stupid system.
Also she’s not allowed to wear the same color as senior royals, but it sounded like there was no communication to say what others are wearing so she always stuck with white and beige etc. Again, what a stupid system! I get that you won’t have a family text chain asking what everyone is wearing but can’t staff at least communicate? They are so bizarre to have all these weird rules but make them so hard to follow
Speaking of Harry not preparing her - I found it fascinating that she said she had no help from the palace with learning protocol. That her first walkabout after they were engaged Harry tried to help her but he didn’t know what to do “from a woman’s perspective” etc. It seems the family would figure out that having an assistant of some kind to help with protocol would only be helpful?? But they don’t do that at all and it’s trial by fire, then she does small breaches of protocol that the newspapers call out and she gets criticized. What a stupid, stupid system.
Also she’s not allowed to wear the same color as senior royals, but it sounded like there was no communication to say what others are wearing so she always stuck with white and beige etc. Again, what a stupid system! I get that you won’t have a family text chain asking what everyone is wearing but can’t staff at least communicate? They are so bizarre to have all these weird rules but make them so hard to follow
Speaking of Harry not preparing her - I found it fascinating that she said she had no help from the palace with learning protocol. That her first walkabout after they were engaged Harry tried to help her but he didn’t know what to do “from a woman’s perspective” etc. It seems the family would figure out that having an assistant of some kind to help with protocol would only be helpful?? But they don’t do that at all and it’s trial by fire, then she does small breaches of protocol that the newspapers call out and she gets criticized. What a stupid, stupid system.
Also she’s not allowed to wear the same color as senior royals, but it sounded like there was no communication to say what others are wearing so she always stuck with white and beige etc. Again, what a stupid system! I get that you won’t have a family text chain asking what everyone is wearing but can’t staff at least communicate? They are so bizarre to have all these weird rules but make them so hard to follow
Agreed, you’d think there would have been a whole team to help with these things.
Ok douche, go ahead and call it mud. My husband DID have halitosis. We addressed it after I talked to you girls on here and guess what? Years later, no problem. Mofongo, you're a cunt. Eat shit. ~anonnamus
Speaking of Harry not preparing her - I found it fascinating that she said she had no help from the palace with learning protocol. That her first walkabout after they were engaged Harry tried to help her but he didn’t know what to do “from a woman’s perspective” etc. It seems the family would figure out that having an assistant of some kind to help with protocol would only be helpful?? But they don’t do that at all and it’s trial by fire, then she does small breaches of protocol that the newspapers call out and she gets criticized. What a stupid, stupid system.
Also she’s not allowed to wear the same color as senior royals, but it sounded like there was no communication to say what others are wearing so she always stuck with white and beige etc. Again, what a stupid system! I get that you won’t have a family text chain asking what everyone is wearing but can’t staff at least communicate? They are so bizarre to have all these weird rules but make them so hard to follow
To be fair, they did assign someone to help her transition to royal life. It was Will's godmother, Lady Hussey. You might remember her from having to step down from her position a couple of weeks ago due to a racist exchange with a guest at a royal event. So, yeah. I think it's fair to say that some of her gaps in training were purposeful sabotage.
Harry did mention that the media was frequently inventing protocol in order to claim that Meghan broke it. That would make me so hot, just as an individual person. I can't imagine how it would feel under the pressure cooker situation Meghan was in.
Last Edit: Dec 14, 2022 15:46:01 GMT -5 by bugandbibs
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Not sure about “haters” because that is different than what’s being discussed here, but internalizing and replicating racist ideas (in this case, anti-Blackness) is universal.
Oh I 100% agree that POC are very capable of continuing to propagate racism. That is my exactly my point with H&M. That they are continuing to propagate the racism that is a prerequisite to being working members of the BRF while expecting protection for themselves because of their roles in the family.
I think your point is that we cannot blame Meghan for this because she is a victim herself but that contradicts what you wrote here.
Having said that, I understand I'm setting impossible standards for them. It probably required a lot of bravery to break away from the only thing Harry has known. This on top of the trauma that he suffered as a child and then again as an adult. Maybe they will surprise me in the future, as they are more financially and socially secure, by working to right some wrongs suffered at the hands of the BRF. I'm not too optimistic but maybe some things will be set in motion.
This conversation has been a reminder for me to be less salty and a bit more empathetic towards super privileged people because they are human too. I'll try to do that.
You have such a beautiful heart. Fierce, but kind.