Question for Library Users

[tacokick]

I was wondering how your library handles these two situations.

If a book is due the 31st and the library is closed and you put the book in the book drop on the 30th/31st but they don’t check it in until the library opens again on the 3rd is it considered late?


If you request a book and have a set number of days to pick it up, do they add extra days if the library is closed for any reason during that period? Or do they send it back if you don’t pick it up even if the library was closed for all or most of the pick up period?

I have always been a super heavy library user (at multiple systems) and my local system does things differently than I’ve experienced elsewhere but I’m not sure which is “normal”.


I’m curious what your library system does! Also, our library is largely fine free so that’s normally not an issue but I’m curious how your library handles that too around closures.

[gerberdaisy]

Our library is fine free also, so while I would probably get an email telling me its late, there wouldn't be a fine involved.

For the second one, I do not think they would keep the book longer, it would probably be sent back at the date in the email.

[expectantsteelerfan]

For 1. They might automatically fine you, but if you go to pay the fine, they will take it away. But our current local library is also under construction and doesn't have an outdoor book drop that is accessible anymore, so they have done away with fines entirely at the moment (again, fines accrue automatically but they won't actually let you pay them). It has to do with having a difficult/old system. A different local library just announced they are doing away with fines entirely, and I'm guessing ours might follow as there is research that shows that they do more harm than good.

For 2. no, the number of days you have to pick up a book are the number of days the library is open. They get sent back manually when librarians pull them from the shelf, so they have more control over this.

[TR]

My library doesn't set due dates or hold expiration dates for days they are closed, they're always pushed out. They also recently got rid of late fines.

[quesyrah]

Jan 3, 2023 11:52:23 GMT -5 TR said:

My library doesn't set due dates or hold expiration dates for days they are closed, they're always pushed out. They also recently got rid of late fines.

Same for mine.

[mrsslocombe]

Mine is now fine-free. Prior to that, there was a three day grace period before they would start charging. Also due dates were automated around normal closure dates (holidays, Sundays, etc) so if your three week loan due date fell on Jan 1 2023, it would automatically make it Jan 3rd, 2023.

They are never very strict about holds, technically you have a week to pick it up but since COVID I've seen holds there for 10+ days. And for branches with unexpected closures it's been even longer.

[sadie]

1-not late. Though, we are fine free, so not a big deal.

2-no additional days added

[k3am]

Our library returns are automatically scanned/checked in when you drop them off, so they wouldn't need to wait until someone was there to process it.

[tacokick]

Jan 3, 2023 11:59:25 GMT -5 k3am said:

Our library returns are automatically scanned/checked in when you drop them off, so they wouldn't need to wait until someone was there to process it.

Fancy! We have an old fashioned book drop and the clerks do all check ins/out manually.

[186momx]

No fines for late books/items but they also give you a 48hr grace period. They just stopped fining adult items at the start of the fiscal year.

Hold item times are extended if the library is closed for weather or holidays.

[Nonny]

For the return scenario, you'd have to go out of your way to find and use the manual book drop. All of our libraries have self-check in where you scan your books at a little kiosk that scans and sucks them in and then gives you a receipt. These are accessible at all hours outside. But my guess is that they'd consider it returned on time and waive the fine.

Because for the second scenario for holds, they always add extensions for pickups (and due dates) when closed due to inclement weather, or other random events - like if a single library loses power for some reason, or one closes due to a plumbing issue - all the books/users at that one library within the system get an extension.

[mala]

Ours went to "fine free" so they're really lax about return dates as long as they get it back eventually. Before the switch, days closed were automatically not counted, it was next business day after the due date if the library was closed, so if you put it in the drop on the due date it would be checked in early on the next business day and wouldn't be considered late.

For holds I think they extend the hold date as well and it's 5 business days to pick up, but I'm not 100% sure.

[waverly]

Jan 3, 2023 11:47:56 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I was wondering how your library handles these two situations.

If a book is due the 31st and the library is closed and you put the book in the book drop on the 30th/31st but they don’t check it in until the library opens again on the 3rd is it considered late?


If you request a book and have a set number of days to pick it up, do they add extra days if the library is closed for any reason during that period? Or do they send it back if you don’t pick it up even if the library was closed for all or most of the pick up period?

I have always been a super heavy library user (at multiple systems) and my local system does things differently than I’ve experienced elsewhere but I’m not sure which is “normal”.


I’m curious what your library system does! Also, our library is fine free so that’s normally not an issue but I’m curious how your library handles that too around closures.

1. We don't have due dates on days that we are closed.  It is not late either way, to answer your other question.  

2.  The computer was supposed to extend our time to pick up, but it looked like it didn't. So they extended it manually.  They also extend over the weekend, so if you are set to pick up on Sat/ Sun, they don't pull those until Monday.  They have 7 days to pick up.  

[jinkies]

Interesting.

My experience has been that books aren't considered returned until the librarian checks them in. So when I use the outdoor bookdrop I have to either factor in a day or two for the books to be retrieved, or plan on paying a day or two of fines.

I'm not 100% sure on the holds, since it's never come up for me. But I don't think they are super strict about taking them off the shelf the day that the hold expires. It may be different if there is a waitlist for the book. But otherwise I think they leave it on the shelf a while, even after the hold technically expires.

[Velar Fricative]

I am both a patron and an employee at my library system lol.

1) We don't have late fees anymore, but when we did, we never considered returns dropped off in the bins to be late if they were retrieved from the bins the next morning the library was open.

2) Yes, if the library has to close for any reason, planned or otherwise, we'll extend the holds dates. We'll even extend by another day or two if you just call and say you can't come by X date, but only if it's not like some huge bestseller with a bazillion holds.

[macmars45]

My local libraries just went fine free as of the 1st of this year! I'm so excited!

Previous to that there was a grace period after the due date so you wouldn't accrue fines until 2ish days after a book is due. I think for the holidays/closed on Sundays type issues.

Each book on hold has a two week period in which you can pick it up. Otherwise your hold gets cancelled. If you called and told them you are sick or due to the coming holiday etc you are unable to pick up during that time my library would extend the hold for you unless there were other people waiting for their turn after you on a popular book. In that case you just have to get back in line.

[k3am]

Jan 3, 2023 12:03:31 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Jan 3, 2023 11:59:25 GMT -5 k3am said:

Our library returns are automatically scanned/checked in when you drop them off, so they wouldn't need to wait until someone was there to process it.

Fancy! We have an old fashioned book drop and the clerks do all check ins/out manually.

It's a love/hate relationship. My kids also each have a 14 character code they need to enter and then another 4 digit pin they have to enter in order to checkout books. It's great especially for the 6 year old. 

[tacokick]

Jan 3, 2023 12:35:28 GMT -5 k3am said:

Jan 3, 2023 12:03:31 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Fancy! We have an old fashioned book drop and the clerks do all check ins/out manually.

It's a love/hate relationship. My kids also each have a 14 character code they need to enter and then another 4 digit pin they have to enter in order to checkout books. It's great especially for the 6 year old. 

That’s rough! You’d think you’d be able to scan your card! It seems weird to have an automated checkout/in and not have that basic feature.

I haven’t had to manually put in a code since the 90s when I didn’t have internet at home and I wanted to request books on the library computer!

[dexteroni]

Hmm. I have no idea! The first one is kind of moot because we've been fine free for some time. Before that... I honestly can't remember. I would hope most libraries wouldn't charge on a day the library's closed, though.

For the hold issue, I also don't know, but my library is pretty easy going so I'd imagine they would extend. For an unplanned closure, due to say weather, I'm certain that they would. Doing the work of re-shelving all those books just for the borrowers to come in one day later and ask for them would be dumb.

I love the idea of items being scanned as you return them. Hopefully my system will adopt that technology.

[TR]

Jan 3, 2023 11:59:25 GMT -5 k3am said:

Our library returns are automatically scanned/checked in when you drop them off, so they wouldn't need to wait until someone was there to process it.

Same. They use RFID tags. I have a bar code to scan and 4 digit pin I use to check out. I place the books on a pad and boom. Checked out. When I return them, it's instantly returned once I put it in the drop box thing.

[al dente]

#1 I'm not sure. My library is a pain and when it's closed they close off the parking lot so you have to illegally park on a busy road and cross the whole parking lot to get to the book drop. I have two kids with me so I'm not dealing with all the car seats and illegally parking. I just wait till they're open and pay the late fees if I didn't get the books in earlier.

#2 they don't add days. But I think they give you two weeks to pick up? It's a pretty long time. If you don't pick up though you also get charged.

My library charges fines. I think it's $0.25 per book per day when late, and $1 for missing a pick up. They automatically renew though if a book you have out isn't on hold though so I guess that's nice? I won't complain though I use the library a ton and they have nice children's programs all for free.
ETA out of curiosity I looked and I've paid $42 in fines since 2018 lol. They use to not auto renew, and I'd have like 15 kids books checked out so those would kill me if I missed the return date by a day. I've been better once they started autorenewing.

[mrspez07]

Ours is now fine free, but some of my experience/memory comes from days when they weren’t.
I’ve seen ours shift due dates around known holidays, so if it is usually due 3 weeks later, but that day is a holiday, then it would be due the following day. If it is dropped by the next open day, I don’t remember there being fines. This is for physical items.

Holds: it’s the day they give in the notice, as they use pieces of paper with dates on them in the hold section so they can pull the ones that haven’t been picked up. Might get lucky and be able to snag it first thing the next day before they pull them. Again, for physical items.

[polarbearfans]

Ours went fine free, but in the past if you went to pay your fees they would waive them. I remember once I finally hit $20 and locked out from checking out books. I tried to pay and they said not to worry about it and reset me to zero. Same with a friend.

[stemmie]

I think my free library system still collects fines. I happily pay when I miss a due date-- they can use the money. But if you have book due, so long as it's in the bin the next day they're open they presume it was returned on time. There's also an option to renew the book from home which creates a 2-3 week grace period.

They keep the holds available for about a week. If you can't make it in within that time, they'll generally hold it longer (unless it's a book with other holds after you) if you call and ask them to.

My town also has a subscription library $20 for a yearly individual membership plus $1 when you initially join to become a shareholder. They don't have fines and are very accommodating about reserved materials.

[sonrisa]

Jan 3, 2023 14:23:16 GMT -5 al dente said:

 If you don't pick up though you also get charged.

Eek.

[tacokick]

Jan 3, 2023 16:50:07 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Jan 3, 2023 14:23:16 GMT -5 al dente said:

 If you don't pick up though you also get charged.

Eek.

My parents’ library system used to have weird fines like this until relatively recently. It was $1 if you didn’t pick up a book and some other odd punitive charges. They would drive to another county for that reason.

Then they went fine free entirely. It was quite a change! But they still charge $5 if you want to request a book from OCLC World Cat which is any book not from their partner library systems.

[Gato]

My library considers the book late if it’s returned after it’s due, and it doesn’t matter if the due date is a day the library isn’t open. This is just a technicality I see when I go online that doesn’t have real world consequences, since our library doesn’t charge late fees.

We have ten days to pick up our books after we get notice that they’re available, and that is very strict (and includes weekends, holidays, etc).

[cricketwife]

Our library is now fine free. Prior to that they would not count it late if it was in the book drop on the due date, even if it was a day or so until the library was open again and they could check it in.

For holds, ours are one week, they don’t add days if they are closed during that week, but the system won’t have your hold expire on a day they will be closed, it would just add a day.

[statgirl]

I am also a heavy user.

1. Due dates get extended from 21 days when they are closed on the 21st day. You get one day grace on top of that. During COVID, they would hold books for 14 days after return and reverse fines. I was late with a book by a few days and when it was scanned in two weeks later, I had a huge fine that they did not reverse. I could have argued, but I paid. I usually wait until we have a few dollars in fines and pay them off then.

2. Holds are strict—it was 3 days pre-COVID and now it is one week. I get in trouble sometimes and it makes me grumpy.

[mountaingirl]

Mine would not be late. They also don’t collect fines anymore.