The thing that moved me forward through all my divorce doubts was, is this relationship the example I want to set for my kids of how they should be treated by their spouse? The answer was NO, I can't let them grow up thinking this is ok.
Also I agree that being alone is a lot less lonely than feeling invisible and insignificant with someone else.
It might be worth mentioning that I have been dealing with chronic pain since my illness last summer. My doctor switched my medication this week (because of shortages) and I think they messed up the dose. I have been in more pain all week and feeling angry and upset all the time. And the doctor won't give an answer over the phone so I wait til monday to see him in the office again. It's probably not a good time for me to be making big decisions. But no one can tell me if I will ever be fully "better" again, so maybe I will just always feel like this.
Post by MixedBerryJam on Jun 8, 2023 13:09:09 GMT -5
I really don’t like to give “do this/don’t do that” advice here bc we all walk a different path, blah blah blah. But I cannot think of a worse person to talk to that your SIL. Don’t do that.
I don’t mean to sound like I’m making light; I’m truly not. I just had to say that ^^^. Good luck with the decisions you’re facing. (Also I see now you’ve considered this And plus not his actual sister, but still don’t do it!)
He says I don't have his back and he doesn't feel he has a safe place with me and that is why he pulled away and started treating me so poorly. But if I could be that safe place for him again, then he could trust me again and then he wouldn't shut down and ignore me for days/weeks on end.
I don't think I saw your original post, and without reading previous responses, read this part over and over and over again.
Insert GIF of Randy Jackson "that's gonna be a no from me, dog".
I get the feeling like you feel you're his last hope (i.e. burning bridges), and that's what's keeping you hanging on to the marriage. Not a genuine desire to still be there.
He can’t make you stay. Even if he fixed absolutely everything, it’s still 100% acceptable for you to walk away from this based on past history. You can’t know if staying or leaving is best for your children (it can honestly go either way based on the emotional abuse he has been modelling). You really have to choose what is best for you.
Also with respect to your SIL, make a choice based on your knowledge of her personality and your existing relationship. My SIL left DH’s Brother last year and I am 100% her wingman. He fucking sucks and has similar anger issues with a dash of hardcore Trumpism that is wildly off putting. We spend more time with her now than him so that we have access to our nephew. It’s honestly been hard for us since she tempered him somewhat and spending time with him now is pretty fucking awful.
When shit first went down I think she needed some space but then we asked her to come over to find out wtf was going on and to make sure she was ok. MIL wanted a report back on how he was treating her through the process so she could bring down the wrath of the matriarch if he was being an asshole.
My kids. I get to be with them every day. If they did not exist then I would be long gone. But there is a part of me that feels like I owe it to them to keep trying. How do I let go of that guilt if I give up?
I was gutted by the thought of not being with my kids every day. But I am such a better person and parent now that I do not have to carry exH's burden, so the time I do have with them is much easier. I LOVE parenting without my ex. And when I don't have them, I see friends, date, watch kid-inappropriate television and eat cereal for dinner.
Another question is, would you feel guilt if you stayed and allowed to view this dynamic as acceptable?
My kids. I get to be with them every day. If they did not exist then I would be long gone. But there is a part of me that feels like I owe it to them to keep trying. How do I let go of that guilt if I give up?
Therapy for me and the kids. That is what helped me let go of the guilt. And the realization that a happy mom is a much better mom!!! If it helps at all, my kids are grown now and they will all tell you that we were all better off that I left. My X and I didnt have drastic issues, and he wasnt a bad guy or dad. I just was miserable in the relationship, I wanted so much more.
I have that with my 2nd H, we have been married for 16 years and I never regret my choice. We all have a good relationship with my X.
I just want to say that the decision doesn’t have to be made now and it doesn’t have to be final. It took me months to finally pull the trigger to file and I was in an awful, toxic marriage.
Could you try separating for a while while he works on whatever he is working on?
And please don’t stay just for the kids. It sounds like this isn’t a great environment for them when he gets into one of his states.
My kids. I get to be with them every day. If they did not exist then I would be long gone. But there is a part of me that feels like I owe it to them to keep trying. How do I let go of that guilt if I give up?
Well it’s not giving up. Your husband doesn’t sound like a good partner to you. I don’t think "staying for the kids" typically ends well.
My kids. I get to be with them every day. If they did not exist then I would be long gone. But there is a part of me that feels like I owe it to them to keep trying. How do I let go of that guilt if I give up?
Well it’s not giving up. Your husband doesn’t sound like a good partner to you. I don’t think "staying for the kids" typically ends well.
100%. To piggyback on this, you're not giving up. You're making a difficult yet necessary to decision to improve your life and mental well-being, as well as theirs. That being said, if you truly feel on the fence can you do a trial separation and then assess how you feel?
Post by heyyounotyouyou on Jun 8, 2023 16:21:57 GMT -5
Giving up would be staying with him. You’re not giving up if you choose a better life for you and your kids - you’re fighting for a better life - the exact opposite of giving up.
Something I have learned is that things in a marriage do not have to be terrible to want to leave. Sometimes things are just not working anymore. I almost think this can make things harder because there might not be one huge breach that makes it feel valid.
I have been looking at listening to divorce podcasts and i really like WTF Divorce (they are crazy short episodes, but he has a website too) and though it is coming from the male side, I still feel it resonate with me. Hearing that things can be ok has been helpful. Also, there are tons out there that feature divorce attorneys or counselors that go through steps to take before and just a lot of helpful advice.
For my situation, in some ways, I wish we had done this years ago when the girls were younger. BUt, I am also happy that we are going to do this before we stay too long and resentment starts to set in as I see with my sister and BIL.
lots of hugs. If you want to chat or vent, feel free to message me anytime.
Why would you be supportive and a safe place to someone making repeated dumbass decisions??!? If my H got in a fight like you said happened at basketball, WORDS would be had.
When I was in this stage, I told my friend my fears. They were financial, how am I going to get my kids to their activities, how will I afford my home, what if things break-how will I fix them? I’ll have to get rid of the camper-the kids will be so upset to lose camping in our life. That I would feel ashamed. How will I take care of the car and the outside stuff?
She said, you never mentioned anything about love, or sadness, or losing him as a partner. It was all logistics.
She was right. And my logistics have worked out. Despite having MORE demands on logistics, it has somehow manage to feel easier.
I’m not telling you what to do, but that was my experience.
ETA: Also? Not having my kids sometimes is fucking awesome. I love the break. Love it! Granted it’s only EO weekend….but I look forward to it.
Giving up would be staying with him. You’re not giving up if you choose a better life for you and your kids - you’re fighting for a better life - the exact opposite of giving up.
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Jun 8, 2023 18:11:16 GMT -5
I was married to narcissist, supreme gaslighter, addict, abuser (verbal, emotional, financial, and at the VERY end physical) and looking back nearly a decade since I left, I absolutely made the 100% right decision. I couldn't handle the constant walking on eggshells, the feeling of being obligated to be responsible for someone else's emotional well being, feeling that my own personhood was slipping away .... let's say I was at a very low point.
The fog lifted once I left. The anxiety went away. My daughter didn't have to see the day in/day out disrespect thrown my way. It is easy being a single parent? NO! Is it easy being a single solo parent? NO! Is it worth it to have her not thinking that my relationship w her dad is the one she should emmulate when she's older? YES!!
I’m a Leo and the least flaky person on the planet, but I’m living this same life. Even told my oldest child (11) we were divorcing. Now, at my suggestion, said let’s wait a year. I never hated him, just didn’t want to be married to him. Then I decided I didn’t care and didn’t want to date anyone so why lower my income and make life harder, plus, the kids are happier? I’m shocked at myself, but here I am. We’ll see where things are in a year, but meanwhile the theme of the year is to “live our best lives.”
My kids. I get to be with them every day. If they did not exist then I would be long gone. But there is a part of me that feels like I owe it to them to keep trying. How do I let go of that guilt if I give up?
Well it’s not giving up. Your husband doesn’t sound like a good partner to you. I don’t think "staying for the kids" typically ends well.
speaking as a child of divorced parents who saw the eventual divorce coming from MILES away (I was 13yo when I first figured out that it was headed this way, they divorced when I was 17), staying for the kids NEVER works well.
My mom moved my family 3k miles in an effort to save her marriage. I was a rising sophomore in HS with alot to look forward to the upcoming year - varsity volleyball, class officer position, honors classes. All gone bc she wanted to save her marriage and not get divorced. She could have divorced my dad in PA and we all could have finished out our schooling there. BUT she tried to stay for the kids and it was a disaster - my dad continued to cheat, we had to get used to new schools that had a fraction of the offerings the old ones had and new friend groups where friend groups were firmly established.
All 4 of us carried the scars of their divorce and trying to work things out long after it was high time to leave. They would have been better off divorcing when we were much younger. Them staying together was needlessly damaging.
Your husband sounds like my mom. Alienating people, nothing is her fault, her outbursts are due to something YOU did. It’s exhausting and abusive, TBH. I just recently starting talking to her again after a year of estrangement.
She acted this way during my entire childhood and now into my adulthood and I can tell you that my brother and I always hoped and prayed that my parents would get divorced. Please don’t stay together solely for your kids.
I know it’s a hard decision, though. Thinking of you!
The public outbursts and fighting with/alienating people would be a LOT for me! You should never have to be a safe space for those behaviors, he’s not a toddler!
Ok douche, go ahead and call it mud. My husband DID have halitosis. We addressed it after I talked to you girls on here and guess what? Years later, no problem. Mofongo, you're a cunt. Eat shit. ~anonnamus
Post by cricketwife on Jun 8, 2023 19:28:45 GMT -5
Im sorry that you are struggling. Whenever I don’t know what to do/decide, a wise friend of mine always says, “well, maybe the decision is deciding that this doesn’t need to be decided right now.” So, if in your heart of hearts you don’t know what to do, it’s ok to wait. If in your heart you know that you want/need to leave, you aren’t compelled to honor an arbitrary 3 month time line.
I’m not divorced, but I will share my personal experience in case it’s helpful. In the last few years, my H and I have hit some rough patches. There have been moments when I wondered if our marriage would survive. But never, ever have I wanted to leave, never have I wished were weren’t married. I have always loved him, respected him, wanted to find a way to make things work. He has felt the same. We have acknowledged the fundamental differences between us and worked to honor who we each are, not who we wish the other person was, and figure out how two very different people can be happy together. Lots of people struggle in marriage, but when it’s a struggle, I’m struggling for a relationship I want to preserve with someone I deeply love, value, and respect. I’m not sure I’m saying this well but I can’t give advice on what it feels like to know you want out of a marriage, but I can say what it feels like to want to stay in one and if the feeling of wanting to stay doesn’t resonate with you, well, that may bring you some insight. I wish you well on whatever path you choose.
Between the completely inappropriate interactions with the other parent and coach, his blaming you for his actions, the silent treatment or whatever that is, and you having to drag yourself upstairs after surgery to make sure he didn't spank your child, I think you probably have your answer. I'm so sorry.
Between the completely inappropriate interactions with the other parent and coach, his blaming you for his actions, the silent treatment or whatever that is, and you having to drag yourself upstairs after surgery to make sure he didn't spank your child, I think you probably have your answer. I'm so sorry.
Whoa I missed all this. Ugh yeah that’s really fucked up and you don’t have to put up with this OP.
When I was thinking of leaving my ex who was verbally abusive he did change a bit after we started counseling so I thought maybe he’ll change? Then his true personality would slip back in momentarily and I thought to myself well if he does change that doesn’t mean I have to stick around to find out how long it takes.
You and your kids deserve to be happy and treated with respect 100% of the time. Not 99% of the time, but all the time. Anecdotally speaking, I don’t think most people regret their divorced and more people regret staying or staying too long.
Ladies - abuse isn't just physical. Please remember that. I think so many of us think things could be worse, but do they have to be? He doesn't have to hit you to be abusive.
You know what you need to do. If you need someone to say "It's ok to leave," I will say it and so will others on here.
Well, I want to start by saying that if you need validation that things are bad enough for you to just leave, I can see how you would feel that way and if you wanted to leave today you’d be justified. Not that you need anyone’s justification, I just mean it’s not in your head. Things are very bad.
However, I also want to point out that it’s incredibly common for behavior change to be slow and incremental and have lots of backsliding. So it’s not surprising that he’s reflecting on things in theory in the emails, but that that’s not enough to stop when a conflict comes up in real life.
Since you guys are on the brink of divorce and that’s kind of what you want anyway, now is the time to be incredibly direct. “No, I don’t have your back when you scream at other adults in public. No, I don’t have your back when you harass the coach via text. Actually I find that behavior to be really problematic and embarrassing, and it’s a big part of why we as a couple are so socially isolated. Nobody wants to be friends with us because of your anger issues. You can never expect me to have your back or be your safe space for that behavior, and in fact I need you to commit to working on not doing that anymore if you want to stay married. Given how differently we view your anger, does it make sense to keep trying here, or should we proceed with the divorce?”
If he agrees to work on it, maybe give him the chance to if you feel so inclined. If he doubles down that you should be supporting that crap… well I personally couldn’t stay married to that energy. But if you can’t even get on the same page about what the problems are, it seems like there wouldn’t be a lot of hope of resolution.